Florio: League destroyed their PSI measurements

[XLIX]

Nope. Pape is right on. Take your L, son.

LOL! The disgraced Shpussy weighs in….. so you’d kowtow to Goodell too?

 

[XLIX]

Kraft suing the league would have invalidated the CBA so that never was going to happen.

whuh whuh huh whuh? you're joking, right?

The CBA is an agreement between the Players and the League. This agreement doesn't dissolve if the League undergoes some infighting. If it did, that would be a great escape clause for the League to employ if they ever wanted to. "Hey let's create a sham lawsuit amongst ourselves to invalidate the CBA...."

 

[brdmaverick]

If they did destroy the measurements we shouldn't be too angry.

After all, I know I wasn't angry when the SPYGATE tapes were destroyed.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I'm basically on the same tack you are:
* NE submits the balls at the lowest allowable pressure of 12.5psi.
* The refs do whatever they do with the ball. As we know from the texts the refs sometimes pump them up.
* Jastremski & co check the balls when the refs are done.
* Possible option A: if the refs have inflated them to over 13.5, Jastremski brings them down to 13.5.
* Possible option B: if the refs inflated them at all (i.e. they are anything over the 12.5 NE submitted them at) Jastremski deflates them down to 12.5.

I think the key here is that neither Kraft nor Belichick could be certain this didn't happen. And even Brady might not have known for sure - all he knew is that in the past he yelled at Jastremski when the balls were over-inflated and Jastremski took care of it. And it's noteworthy that an NFL official reported McNally several years earlier for asking for the footballs well before he was supposed to.

So it's possible that both sides are correct here (or rather both were at fault here) - the Patriots did screw with the balls and the League was ignorant of the Ideal Gas Law and screwed the Patriots in many ways between the false leaks and the unfair investigation and report.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

There absolutely was active litigation in 2015 (when Florio says Pash destroyed evidence) -- Brady wasn't suspended until 2016 as the case finally ended during the summer of 2016 when Brady chose not to appeal the Second Circuit's decision.

And I know it is highly unpopular around here, but I totally believe Jastremski and the other guy had hatched some scheme. Their excuses about their text messages are not credible at all.

I'm basically on the same tack you are:
* NE submits the balls at the lowest allowable pressure of 12.5psi.
* The refs do whatever they do with the ball. As we know from the texts the refs sometimes pump them up.
* Jastremski & co check the balls when the refs are done.
* Possible option A: if the refs have inflated them to over 13.5, Jastremski brings them down to 13.5.
* Possible option B: if the refs inflated them at all (i.e. they are anything over the 12.5 NE submitted them at) Jastremski deflates them down to 12.5.
* And finally, no changes were made to the balls in the AFCCG -- the NFL's own bought & paid for numbers from their "second-hand smoke is fine!" consultants prove the balls were right in line with science within the margin of error of the gauges the refs used. Presumably NE submitted at 12.5 and the refs left them alone that night.

Options A and B are still ball tampering. The science absolves Brady from any wrongdoing related to the 2014 AFCCG. However, Goodell would just say that The Deflator text proves that it was more probable than not that there was a scheme to deflate footballs in other games, so the suspension was justified. What ultimately screwed Brady was McNally's texts.

 

[captain stone]

Has anyone performed an experiment to determine how many footballs can be reduced from let's say 13.5 psi to 12.5 psi in < 100 seconds, kinda like the dude who walked Oswald's route in Oak Cliff...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If they did destroy the measurements we shouldn't be too angry.

After all, I know I wasn't angry when the SPYGATE tapes were destroyed.

Disagree.
Spygate vids would have embarrassed the 32 as they would have shown nothing not readily available from "authorized" filming locations and would show opposing coaching staffs waving at the camera.

 

[Pape]

If anything about this was remotely true, and frick and frack were playing with the psi... At the worst it should have been an equipment violation... Fine the team 25k, move on... Much like we witnessed teams using illegal cell phone coms on sidelines...

But nope, the league had a hard-on for the Patriots... Took it way too far... It was ridiculous losing a first round and a fourth round pick because of "maybe they did something" ... Especially when we know the science says they didn't

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

If they did destroy the measurements we shouldn't be too angry.

After all, I know I wasn't angry when the SPYGATE tapes were destroyed.

I was angry because the tapes being destroyed just led everyone outside of us to assume the worst about the patriots. Even if there was something in there damaging to us how much more damaging, if at all, could it have been from the conclusions everyone drew from the decision to destroy them?

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Spygate vids would have embarrassed the 32 as they would have shown nothing not readily available from "authorized" filming locations and would show opposing coaching staffs waving at the camera.

Here's a quote from Walsh, the guy that actually did the taping:

“When I was [taping], I understood what we were doing to be wrong. We went to great lengths to keep from being caught. … Coach (Bill) Belichick’s explanation for having misinterpreted the rules -- to me, that really didn’t sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through to hide what we were doing”

 

[bresna]

Stop with all of this scientific analysis stuff. No scientific study can be undertaken when the initial state is unknown. A ball boy pumping up the balls to some unknown PSI with heated air from a pump in a hot bathroom and a referee punching a manual air pressure gauge into a ball and glancing at the dial, saying "Close enough" just does not count as an accurate PSI measurement. They cannot say the initial PSI was ~12.5 PSI. Approximation in this case is not good enough.

Look, it's simple - the change in air pressure cannot be calculated when the inital value is X. If you calculate X-12.5, the answer is "X-12.5". You cannot solve that equation unless you know X. Since no one has any idea what the exact initial air pressure of every ball was (X), any analysis of change is garbage.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Here's a quote from Walsh, the guy that actually did the taping:

“When I was [taping], I understood what we were doing to be wrong. We went to great lengths to keep from being caught. … Coach (Bill) Belichick’s explanation for having misinterpreted the rules -- to me, that really didn’t sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through to hide what we were doing”

It boggles my mind that the NFL spend one week "investigating" spygate and over two years investigating and litigating deflategate...

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

If they did destroy the measurements we shouldn't be too angry.

After all, I know I wasn't angry when the SPYGATE tapes were destroyed.

When the evidence against you is flimsy, you don't want it to disappear

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

 

[NashuaPats]

I’m surprised some here still believe Jastremski and McNally were up to something because of their texts. These were two guys who prepare and handle footballs for a living and were personal friends outside of work. They had tons of text messages between them full of jokes making fun of each other. It was no surprise that that included terms and references related to their jobs which included football preparation,

Wells cherry picked single texts from various months, removed them from conversations and context, and listed them in the order he wanted them read with his own narrative. This would be illegal in any actual legal document or court case.

The deflator comment came 6 months before the incident that supposedly inspired the scheme as per the NFL. Six months before NFL alleged the scheme began. That completely defies logic.

The texts from McNally that Wells alleged was him shaking down Jastremski for money came during a conversation where McNally was actually inviting Jastremski and his fiancé to have dinner with him and his wife. That made no sense other than those comments were jokes as they both stated.

Then there was the text Wells and the NFL allege was the smoking gun. A text Jastremski sent to McNally about a “special” needle. This text was a **** joke. A pun. Jastremski’s text stated he had a big f’ing needle for him while McNally also made a pun about his balls. Wells, with a straight face, went on television and stated a **** joke, by two silly friends made in private, was the smoking gun. How incredibly absurd.

 

[XLIX]

Here's a quote from Walsh, the guy that actually did the taping:

“When I was [taping], I understood what we were doing to be wrong. We went to great lengths to keep from being caught. … Coach (Bill) Belichick’s explanation for having misinterpreted the rules -- to me, that really didn’t sound like taking responsibility for what we had done, especially considering the great lengths that we had gone through to hide what we were doing”

OMFG this is the type of ignorance I expect on ChiefsPlanet, not patsfans.com.

Matt Walsh has been discredited so many times in so many forums that I am not going to bother presenting the evidence against him once again. You'll have to educate yourself on that account.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

It's not just Walsh that indicates this was a widely used practice by the Patriots.

If even half of what is alleged here is true, I can see why some other teams were upset by the destruction of the tape:

Spygate to Deflategate: Inside what split the NFL and Patriots apart

The widespread perception that Spygate was worse than was ever made public turned Deflategate into what one owner terms a "makeup call" by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and his league.

www.espn.com

 

[fourhour]

^^^^ Oh look, a story about the New England Patriots written by ESPN people!

I'll pass!

 

[XLIX]

^^^^ Oh look, a story about the New England Patriots written by ESPN people!

I'll pass!

It is hilarious how ESPN (and ABC News for that matter) shamelessly shills for their corporate overlords over and over. I found today's post-press conference discussion particularly galling.

 

[sb1]

Goodell doubles down lol. Dude knows how to gaslight

Roger Goodell Resurrects NFL's Lie About PSI Data Collection In 2015, Dodges DeflateGate Question

Seemingly out of nowhere, DeflateGate was thrust back into the national spotlight this week. Once again, Roger Goodell is telling lies about it.

boston.cbslocal.com