Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Bills beat the Pats

[Pats1971]

Yeah it's dumb acting like a first year rookie season says everything on a QB. Brady couldn't even win the starting job his rookie year and while many thought he was better than Bledsoe his sophmore year, it wasn't by a big enough margin to make a switch from an established starter. Another tidbit on Allen, he went into his third year with many people in the Buffalo market believing he had to show significant improvement or he'd be on the way out. Peyton Manning was really good production wise his rookie year, but he also led the NFL in INT's and had very apparent flaws. Brees first run in San Diego it took 4 years for him to finally have a decent season, then he regressed the next year and went on to have a HOF career in New Orleans.

It's not remotely worth projecting Mac out now. Especially since Bill has been deliberately conservative with him and he has no WR's that would be credible number 1's on most playoff teams and the line has been spotty based on the week.

Did you say Brady couldnt win the starting job? Bledsoe just signed a 100 mil contract If Mac was drafted in 2000 he was not winning the job either. No other Qb was going to play in 2000 but bledsoe, that is a dumb take. Brady earned his start, it was not defacto. When he had the chance he made the most of it, and he was not coming in as a first round draft choice. The difference between good and great is consistency, and working to get better all the time. What brady did or what Peyton did 22 years ago has zero bearing on Mac or what he will be. Those guys earned their stripes, they did it all. Mac hasnt or even close, so nothing that happened before has anything to do with what he will be or not be.

I will tell you this though, this Pats team is way more established than the 2001 pats were. Everything was new then including the head coach. It was so far different its not even comparible nor is the era of passing or how the game is played.

 

[Pats1971]

The quarterback.

has less to do.

with fixing this team…

than you ppl think.

we’d be hovering around .500 right now with anybody.

we gotta build a core of good coaches and def players.

umm....the reason the pats have a winning record right now is the coaching and the defense.

 

[Pats1971]

The issue with Brady playing in Miami was always the heat and humidity, since he wasn't used to it. Mac is used to it having played in Alabama. Early forecasts for the game show that the temps will be a high of 79 degrees...

You know Brady plays in Tampa right now...lol. There was more than brady going wrong in miami when they played them. I know you do not know much pats history prior to Brady leaving but you need to go take a look at some of those games.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

This defense doesn't have a clutch bone in their body.

We need a real playmaker at WR. Swap Diggs out for Agholor and we're 3 games better than the trash that is Buffalo.

Jonnu HAS to be involved more.

That's about it for my takeaways

 

[Pats1971]

This defense doesn't have a clutch bone in their body.

We need a real playmaker at WR. Swap Diggs out for Agholor and we're 3 games better than the trash that is Buffalo.

Jonnu HAS to be involved more.

That's about it for my takeaways

As I said, the defense is the only reason this team has a winning record. If the pats had a bad defense this year, they would have about 4 wins.

 

[SVN]

As bad as the offense was, with a rookie QB, 3 times the defense had a chance to get the ball back to this rookie QB to win the game, vs the saints they gave up a TD, vs miami they gave up a first down(?), vs the colts they gave up a TD and today vs the bills again. They really havent played complimentry when the moment demands for any of these comebacks to happen.

 

[Rob0729]

Allen had 10 td passes and 12 INTs as a rookie. Threw for 52.8 completion percentage and a 67.9 QBR. There’s no law saying QBs can’t improve. If he’s at the same level after 3 seasons, then yeah I agree. I think he will be top 10, but he definitely needs better weapons around him. The running game is excellent. The receiving options are average at best. And they can even improve the Oline. Look at the improvement in Allen’s weapons, it’s not a coincidence that he became a top QB once he got Diggs and Beasley.

Few rookie QBs have stellar rookie seasons. Jones is having one of the better ones.

And I would argue even with the offseason moves at receiver, the Pats has a below average receiving corp in general. Meyers plays the role of a #1 WR, but he would be the #3 WR on many teams in the league. Henry is a great red zone target, but he hasn’t been a great inside the 20s target like say a Gronk, Kelce, or Kittles are as elite or former elite TEs. Algholor and Harry are way too inconsistent. Bourne is only used sparingly for some reason.

Of course the Brady crowd are going to rush in here and blame it on Jones’ lack of talent and/or physical skills. But I still don’t see his arm strength being the issue. It’s not like the Pats have Stephon Diggs consistently open down the field and Jones missing him on passes. Some of his passes were off today down the field, but that was more about him being pressured and getting sped up rather than just not having the arm strength. But we see that with young players no matter the arm strength.

Unfortunately, the days of having Brady who could make mediocre receivers productive way beyond their talent level are over. At least for now. But Brady was in a rare class that can do that. Even most top QBs cannot perform without receiving talent. Look at Allen, he was considered a bust until the Bills traded for Diggs. His production turned around almost overnight.

I think a priority for the Patriots during the offseason is to get a true #1 WR and a quick slot WR. Neither have to be the top guys out there, but they have to be better than what the Pats currently have. I think you give Jones a better receiving Corp and his production improves exponentially in year two.

 

[Pats1971]

Few rookie QBs have stellar rookie seasons. Jones is having one of the better ones.

And I would argue even with the offseason moves at receiver, the Pats has a below average receiving corp in general. Meyers plays the role of a #1 WR, but he would be the #3 WR on many teams in the league. Henry is a great red zone target, but he hasn’t been a great inside the 20s target like say a Gronk, Kelce, or Kittles are as elite or former elite TEs. Algholor and Harry are way too inconsistent. Bourne is only used sparingly for some reason.

Of course the Brady crowd are going to rush in here and blame it on Jones’ lack of talent and/or physical skills. But I still don’t see his arm strength being the issue. It’s not like the Pats have Stephon Diggs consistently open down the field and Jones missing him on passes. Some of his passes were off today down the field, but that was more about him being pressured and getting sped up rather than just not having the arm strength. But we see that with young players no matter the arm strength.

Unfortunately, the days of having Brady who could make mediocre receivers productive way beyond their talent level are over. At least for now. But Brady was in a rare class that can do that. Even most top QBs cannot perform without receiving talent. Look at Allen, he was considered a bust until the Bills traded for Diggs. His production turned around almost overnight.

I think a priority for the Patriots during the offseason is to get a true #1 WR and a quick slot WR. Neither have to be the top guys out there, but they have to be better than what the Pats currently have. I think you give Jones a better receiving Corp and his production improves exponentially in year two.

If you go out spending big money on receivers then you have to give up something else. Bill wants to win running the ball and defense, which people were all over this year as working, now all of the sudden its the pass catchers? The pats in now way have bad pass catchers at all. I have seen worse for the pats go to the superbowl. Defense and the run game has given them the record they have now. In order to beat the really good teams in this league you have to have a QB who can be special, and as a rookie, we dont know if we have that yet. Thats pretty much it.

 

[amfootball]

They played bad. But its amazing the overreaction of criticizing individual players from Mac jones regressing, to hunter henry on paternity leave. Ultimately they werent undiscplined , relied overly on mac jones arm when the run was working ,had drops and didnt really adjust the gameplan. They start throwing on the first drive after 1 run and go 3 and out. Then the next drive they go runs and score TD. That is the game plan they didnt stick with. This kinda sums it up on the defense

Replace him with who though? Collins?

 

[Pats1971]

As bad as the offense was, with a rookie QB, 3 times the defense had a chance to get the ball back to this rookie QB to win the game, vs the saints they gave up a TD, vs miami they gave up a first down(?), vs the colts they gave up a TD and today vs the bills again. They really havent played complimentry when the moment demands for any of these comebacks to happen.

Again, the defense and run game is why the pats will make the playoffs this year. Pats are top 3 in defense, and have ran great. Without that, the pats would be in a lot of trouble.

 

[amfootball]

If you go out spending big money on receivers then you have to give up something else. Bill wants to win running the ball and defense, which people were all over this year as working, now all of the sudden its the pass catchers? The pats in now way have bad pass catchers at all. I have seen worse for the pats go to the superbowl. Defense and the run game has given them the record they have now. In order to beat the really good teams in this league you have to have a QB who can be special, and as a rookie, we dont know if we have that yet. Thats pretty much it.

Bill spent a boatload on the skill positions this year in FA. He's not going out in the off- season IMO and spending more money on those positions. He can't get out from one of those contracts either. We are stuck with these guys through at least next year and maybe even the year after.

 

[Pats1971]

Bill spent a boatload on the skill positions this year in FA. He's not going out in the off- season IMO and spending more money on those positions. He can't get out from one of those contracts either. We are stuck with these guys through at least next year and maybe even the year after.

Thats the thing and people forget that. Bill went on a spending spree. He went out like never before and grabbed 1st day skill positions, which I cannot remember him ever doing before. The money he spent the most on was the two guys that have been the most disapointing. We always grabbed receivers off trash heaps and throw aways, usually on the 20th day of free agency. lol

 

[SVN]

Again, the defense and run game is why the pats will make the playoffs this year. Pats are top 3 in defense, and have ran great. Without that, the pats would be in a lot of trouble.

No doubt. but there are games when you will need to have to come back. when needs complimentary football. And so far at least statisically it has been on the D to make that stop which hasnt happened.

 

[mosi]

I know this game is a gut punch - especially how it played out - but the Pats can still make the playoffs. That would be a great accomplishment for a team with a rookie QB and an aging defense.

And we need to remember Brady but also forgot about him. He is the greatest of all time. You can't compare people to him. He is off the table. And if you think Brady was just mediocre in 2001, go back and watch the Raiders playoff game again. As bad as he played in the first half, he was masterful in the second. The Brady we all came to appreciate, was there in 2001.

Give Mac some time. Allen was trash he first year. Burrow was not that hot either. They look great right now. For most all QB's - even Manning, it takes a few years. Give him that time with BB and lets hope they beat those stinking dolfools in two weeks!

 

[Rob0729]

If you go out spending big money on receivers then you have to give up something else. Bill wants to win running the ball and defense, which people were all over this year as working, now all of the sudden its the pass catchers? The pats in now way have bad pass catchers at all. I have seen worse for the pats go to the superbowl. Defense and the run game has given them the record they have now. In order to beat the really good teams in this league you have to have a QB who can be special, and as a rookie, we dont know if we have that yet. Thats pretty much it.

Yawn! I am glad the Belichick haters/Brady only fans feel free to come back to the main board and spew the same rhetoric they were afraid to during the winning streak.

I am not blaming the receivers for the loss. I already blamed the defense and special teams for it. I am talking what Jones needs to jump to the next level. I was addressing Jones’ production specifically.

And last I checked, the Pats are currently tied with the Bills in record and still in the playoffs if the season ended tomorrow. They haven’t been eliminated from anything.

I have seen worse teams with a seasoned elite QB like Brady win Super Bowls. But no team with a rookie QB has ever won a Super Bowl and few with a rookie QB have ever even won a playoff game. That is what we should be looking at for Jones, not teams like Brady. The way the league has gone this year, the Pats could get to and win the Super Bowl but it isn’t likely with a rookie QB.

 

[Rob0729]

Bill spent a boatload on the skill positions this year in FA. He's not going out in the off- season IMO and spending more money on those positions. He can't get out from one of those contracts either. We are stuck with these guys through at least next year and maybe even the year after.

Why not. Agohlor is easily cutable after the season. The Pats would get back $5 million of cap space doing so. They still never spent to get a true #1 WR. And getting a slot WR wouldn’t cost that much money either.

When Belichick spent money in free agency, he didn’t know Mac Jones was going to be his QB. Now that he feels he has a QB of the future now, he might spend money to get a true #1 WR and multiple receivers who can make an impact like he did in 2007.

 

[amfootball]

Why not. Agohlor is easily cutable after the season. The Pats would get back $5 million of cap space doing so. They still never spent to get a true #1 WR. And getting a slot WR wouldn’t cost that much money either.

When Belichick spent money in free agency, he didn’t know Mac Jones was going to be his QB. Now that he feels he has a QB of the future now, he might spend money to get a true #1 WR and multiple receivers who can make an impact like he did in 2007.

I agree about the slot. They need to get someone who is shifty and quick and can get open fast. That wouldn't necessarily cost a lot of money and is very doable. But a true number one on the outside? Bill isn't going to spend on that type of guy. For all we know he may really like agahlor.

 

[Rob0729]

I know this game is a gut punch - especially how it played out - but the Pats can still make the playoffs. That would be a great accomplishment for a team with a rookie QB and an aging defense.

And we need to remember Brady but also forgot about him. He is the greatest of all time. You can't compare people to him. He is off the table. And if you think Brady was just mediocre in 2001, go back and watch the Raiders playoff game again. As bad as he played in the first half, he was masterful in the second. The Brady we all came to appreciate, was there in 2001.

Give Mac some time. Allen was trash he first year. Burrow was not that hot either. They look great right now. For most all QB's - even Manning, it takes a few years. Give him that time with BB and lets hope they beat those stinking dolfools in two weeks!

That‘s the thing. Before the season, many people were saying the Pats would be lucky to get nine wins. They are likely to go 10-7 or 11-6 and make the playoffs. If you told people before the season that was what they would do this year, most people would say that would be a very successful season.

The problem is the seven game winning streak inflated people’s expectations exponentially. I admit I was there with them. Now people before Indy were talking first round byes and potential Super Bowl appearances. Unfortunately, those expectations were a bit premature.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree about the slot. They need to get someone who is shifty and quick and can get open fast. That wouldn't necessarily cost a lot of money and is very doable. But a true number one on the outside? Bill isn't going to spend on that type of guy. For all we know he may really like agahlor.

I am not talking about Adams or Godwin or Robinson. There are second tier #1 WRs out there.

And before this offseason, people said Belichick would never spend a record amount for the league on free agency or start a rookie QB the first game of his rookie season. Belichick changes with the time. Don’t put anything past him.

And Belichick isn’t stupid. He sees the production from Agholor. He may keep him, but I am sure he sees the Pats need an upgrade at the position and a target Jones can rely on.

 

[Kontradiction]

Might as well throw some gas on the flames…