PostGame Thread Official Post Game Thread: Pats destroy the Browns

[captain stone]

...A disaster is when you pay a QB godly money $40+/per and he gets hurt. A contributing TE at 12+ is not a disaster, and by the time you get to years 3 and 4 in this contract, neither Henry nor Smith will be anywhere near the most expensive TEs in the game. There are about 8 guys on their rookie deals right now who are going to get paid, and with rare exception, they're not better than Smith or Henry, they're just targeted more.

But he's not contributing... So it kinda is a disaster, so far...

 

[50-yard-line]

I don’t think the problem is the math (because you’re right), it’s your timing. We’re coming off a great win, past trade deadline, trying to make it to playoffs, and you’re talking about cap issues and free agency. Can we check back in on this problem after the Super Bowl when you’ll probably have a lot more people agreeing with you and wanting to talk about it.

He's not right, and that's the whole point. The Pats have 25-30 million next year. Any contract to JC, or HT if he wants to keep going, or DMac, same, or Trent Brown if his leg straightens out and they want to keep him, or anyone else they want to bring in, will be light on cap hit in the first year, and not heavy until years 3, 4, as is typical. Judon is getting almost 14/year, but his cap hit this year is 6.3, for example.

On top of that, the Pats did not have to play any games to get these guys - all of these contracts can be reworked to find space if need be. And the cap will keep going up, almost certainly, which means having a team thick with middle-class (second, third contract, 25-30 year olds) going into the future will be value.

This team is in great financial shape through Jones' rookie deal, then a couple of years beyond that.

The only guy on the team who hurts if he retires is McCourty, because his 3 void years will accelerate for a 6+ cap hit. And the way he's playing, I"m not sure he's ready to hang it up.

In short, they are just fine, and I doubt they're regretting much regarding their offseason moves.

 

[50-yard-line]

But he's not contributing... So it kinda is a disaster, so far...

He'll get there. Patience.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I thought that was an excellent pass by Mac, just where it needed to be, and that Agholor should've been able to run underneath it... I also thought that this dude couldn't be over-thrown, especially by somebody like Mac?

The expected completion percentage of any pass over about 35 yards is around 33%. That incompletion to Agholor was over 40 yards from line of scrimmage, so maybe close to 50 yards, so expected completion of more like 20%. So way more often than not those are going to be incompletions. I much prefer overthrows to underthrows, and that is what we have seen to date.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I thought that was an excellent pass by Mac, just where it needed to be, and that Agholor should've been able to run underneath it... I also thought that this dude couldn't be over-thrown, especially by somebody like Mac?

Agholor is butter fingers.

Could have signed a cheaper speedster for the same 1-2 catches a game. But they were desperate to respond in FA after TB12 won his 7th ring.

.

 

[RobertWeathers]

But he's not contributing... So it kinda is a disaster, so far...

It's trending towards a disaster in terms of ROI.

It's not vs the actual cap which he will count 5-6% from 2021-2023.

Hardly the end of the world.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Locker room celebration video is posted.
Inside the Locker Room After Patriots Win Over Browns

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Did you hear me yelling from Section 309?

I wasn’t there but I did hear from Steve that he could hear you from section 102.

 

[PScottman]

There’s still plenty of the season for Smith to find his role, too. The money is already spent, so maybe let that go until the off-season, when it’s time to think about how to reallocate the money?

I get hammered on this by the Fellowship of the Miserable crowd, but the sample size versus contract length HAS to be considered. For Smith especially he has to be looked it on a year and a half of statistics basis not half a season given the contract they signed. Can he pick up the offense and contribute by that year to year and a half point? At that point, if he's still not producing yes, he could be labelled a bust because he hasn't produced for enough of the entire contract to get that Return on Investment.

Those that want to declare "Bust! Waste of money!" at this point have no understanding of the cap and other variables critical to long term management.

Taking that "BUST!" declaration to its logical end point - cut Smith tomorrow. Now what?

One - who replaces him short term? Asaisi? Lacosse? Not upgrades or even "same as". They're "BUST!" too right...let's compound the problem and cut them as well! There's no impact to any developing young player by doing that either right? One mistake mentality - either produce right away or you're gone...that always builds confidence.

Worse - who replaces him long term? You now carry the cap hit AND in replacing him MAY not be able to sign the guy you prefer with the fantasy stats (because he has a vote on signing with the Patriots too!) and even if you can - what's the guarantee that HE comes in, gels with the QB, understands the offense, doesn't get hurt and produces right away????????????

It's not all "sunshine and rainbows" as someone snarked. It's understanding that crying "BUST!" is just admiring someone else's problem from outside and throwing out unworkable simplified solutions untethered from reality and the wider context necessary to understand the situation.

There are very few instances (they do exist - I tend to agree they probably could've tried to call Godell to show his cards regarding AB and possible suspension) when a personnel problem could be addressed that it wasn't with this franchise and when it was the wrong choice, such as Sanu or Haynesworth or Steve Martin - they got rid of them when it made sense for that season in context - cap wise, alternative player availability/depth, data from practice, etc.

 

[50-yard-line]

Agholor is butter fingers.

Could have signed a cheaper speedster for the same 1-2 catches a game. But they were desperate to respond in FA after TB12 won his 7th ring.

.

1 drop in 46 targets.

Corey Davis had 2 in one game.

Here's a list - Agholor's not on it.

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[long distance]

Another player (Wise) this board loves to hate . yet all he does is show up.
And he didnt even steal high pick or high cap..

 

[PScottman]

LOL at posters who won’t let Harry go. He’s the worst WR I have ever seen who will be off the team at the end of the year. His “blocking” ability can we duplicated by any backup tight end

Who exactly is clamoring to re-sign him?

He's here, probably didn't get decent trade offers for him, so he's being used with the limited skills he has to impact a team winning yesterday.

Get what value you can out of him and move on next year. Are you saying that only the negative plays he makes count from now on? Or are you clamoring for Lacosse instead (you know, the back up TE that is actually available to this team and hasn't shown the ability to block guys like Garrett in the past)? What is the desired end state for the rest of this year?

But I guess it's more important to be right - cut him now so fans can smugly announce that it was a terrible (THE WORST!) draft choice (It was a bad draft choice now that there's multiple seasons of data, but you can either just completely throw it away or use him in the limited skill set he has demonstrated for the rest of the season).

Emotional management like that always works out. Really motivates the folks left behind too.

 

[PScottman]

I think that we all underestimate the importance of an elite locking wide receiver in Bill’s mind. You can also tell that Bill and Harry’s teammates are really pulling for him. What that says to me is that the guy is a good teammate and that probably he works his ass off, despite his trade request in the offseason. While he is virtually useless in the passing game, he really deserves credit, in my opinion, for putting aside his stat-based ego and giving consistent effort as their best blocking WR. In 2021 the norm would be to become a problem in the locker room dog it on the field.

If you want to see how this team feels about each other....just rewatch the reaction to Meyers TD.

Team is important for many reasons. Celebrating EACH OTHER is just one.

 

[BTTA]

It's more pertinent to 2022 and beyond. it becomes a problem for anyone who understands math. But you can cry later when someone explains to you later why we can't afford to keep JC Jackson.

.

1. You are expecting the Pats to do something that just isn't done: every player contract to be either a fair deal for the team, or a great deal for the team. Every team has a few players that aren't yet measuring up to their contract. That's called "managing a franchise." Getting upset about it is like being upset that you chose a restaurant where there are a few things on the menu you don't like. It is just emotional self imolation.
2. None of this is worthy of crying about. 5-20 Billion unborn children who will never see the light of day because of environmental destruction, in the name of greed? That's worthy of a good cry. Football?

 

[BTTA]

it’s quite clear mac Jones arm talent was severely underrated by “experts”

he can make any throw with efficiency And he may have the best touch psss in the nfl besides brady

It is also clear that the "experts" and the experts overvalue throwing a football very fast.

 

[mike_usagisan]

It is also clear that the "experts" and the experts overvalue throwing a football very fast.

They also overvalue the “wow” factor of making something out of a broken play. It comes up once or twice a season where one of these guys makes an “Only XX could make this throw!” And the media goes nuts. We’ve seen it with Aaron Rodgers and Mahommes. Both are routinely brought up as better QBs than Brady. And the GOAT just keeps on winning despite not being as talented a QB.

 

[Sfpat]

Agholor is butter fingers.

Could have signed a cheaper speedster for the same 1-2 catches a game. But they were desperate to respond in FA after TB12 won his 7th ring.

.

Give BB a call. Seems he could use some help with team building and cap management and you seem to be the perfect guy with all of your vast experience. Bill would appreciate it.

 

[Kasmir]

I thought that was an excellent pass by Mac, just where it needed to be, and that Agholor should've been able to run underneath it... I also thought that this dude couldn't be over-thrown, especially by somebody like Mac?

Yeah I was surprised that Agholor gave up on that ball. Maybe he thought he was just running another clear out sprint and wasn't looking for it?

 

[DaBruinz]

That you think I'm looking for your posts says a great deal about your weird mindscape. Have fun with that.

His narcissism dwarfs that of certain politicians...

 

[DaBruinz]

JC Jackson thru 10 games: 50% comp pct. 1 TD 5 INTs 46.0 rating

Gilmore 2019: 49.5% comp pct. 1 TD 6 INTs 48.0 rating

But.... but.. but.. He's not a true Cover Corner who can shut down the opposition's #1 receiver... I was told so here on the Pats board..