Belichick still greatest of all time coach?

[Fuzz]

This is simple, what makes Bill the GOAT is the winning.

The only constant during the 20 years of winning is Tom Brady.

Bill doesn't have all those wins without Tom Brady.

So yes, Bill is the GOAT but because he had Brady for 20 years. Without Brady he more than likely isn't any better than the other classic great coaches, maybe even worse. Who knows.

Well, the good thing is that his story isn't finished. If he can get the Pats back to the top post-Brady, it wont be in dispute anymore. Until then, an argument can be made for other coaches.

 

[sb1]

This is simple, what makes Bill the GOAT is the winning.

The only constant during the 20 years of winning is Tom Brady.

Bill doesn't have all those wins without Tom Brady.

So yes, Bill is the GOAT but because he had Brady for 20 years. Without Brady he more than likely isn't any better than the other classic great coaches, maybe even worse. Who knows.

This is my thought too - BB with the advantage of having the GOAT QB on his roster is generally considered GOAT because of wins and rings.

Should that be the case? I don't think it should. Wins are a team accomplishment. Barry Switzer has a ring but that doesn't mean he's a better coach than Marv Levy who doesn't. It's like the whole Trent Dilfer argument but for coaches.

Any intelligent fan agrees Bill is at least in the GOAT conversation beyond wins. But what makes him #1 if not wins? What exactly makes BB a greater coach than say Tom Landry? Tough question.

 

[IllegalContact]

uhhhhhhhhh..........who gives a sh!t

 

[203Pat]

uhhhhhhhhh..........who gives a sh!t

OP must have forgot to run this thread by you for approval first.

 

[IllegalContact]

OP must have forgot to run this thread by you for approval first.

I'm ok with any thread...........I don't ever say what threads exist or where they should go.......I think the moderation that happens around here is comical

that said, I am the GOAT of not giving a sh!t about all of these kinds of things

 

[Rob0729]

This is my thought too - BB with the advantage of having the GOAT QB on his roster is generally considered GOAT because of wins and rings.

Should that be the case? I don't think it should. Wins are a team accomplishment. Barry Switzer has a ring but that doesn't mean he's a better coach than Marv Levy who doesn't. It's like the whole Trent Dilfer argument but for coaches.

Any intelligent fan agrees Bill is at least in the GOAT conversation beyond wins. But what makes him #1 if not wins? What exactly makes BB a greater coach than say Tom Landry? Tough question.

But no one is claiming Switzer is a better coach than Levy. Switzer doesn't have the longevity that Levy has. And other than the one Super Bowl, he doesn't have the success that Levy had over time. Switzer inherited a talented team with multiple HOFers and got one Super Bowl. To use him as an analogy for Belichick who had 20 years of success with six Super Bowls, nine appearances, and 12 AFCCG appearances.

And you make the argument that Belichick could have won at least two or three of the Super Bowls in the early dynasty if he had another QB of high caliber.

 

[sb1]

But no one is claiming Switzer is a better coach than Levy. Switzer doesn't have the longevity that Levy has.

Right, like nobody is saying Dilfer is better than Marino because Dilfer has a ring and Marino doesn't. So why are we saying BB is the GOAT because of wins and rings?

 

[Rob0729]

Right, like nobody is saying Dilfer is better than Marino because Dilfer has a ring and Marino doesn't. So why are we saying BB is the GOAT because of wins and rings?

Because Belichick has six rings, not one. Belichick is the best tactician to ever coach the game while Dilfer was an average QB in his best years and Switzer was a yahoo who inherited a Ferrari.

I told you what makes Belichick better than every other coach beyond the rings. He does his job better than anyone else. He has all the angles covered. He is usually smarter than the guy on the opposite side of the field and forces the other team to play in a way that doesn't play to their strengths. He is always trying to find things outside the box to make the team just that much better. You dismiss all this as just doing his job.

 

[Pape]

Still the greatest? Never was.

The undisputed greatest all time coach is Guy Chamberlin. Chamberlin won four NFL championships as a player-coach. He won 78.4% of the games he coached in the NFL, the highest winning percentage all-time for a coach with 50 or more games.

I'd like to see Bill Belichick strap on the pads and take a few snaps. Until then, he's just a poorly dressed guy with a headset getting all his ideas from some guys in the booth.

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals

www.pro-football-reference.com

hmmm... interesting ... what was guy chamberlins playoff record again?

 

[Pape]

Right, like nobody is saying Dilfer is better than Marino because Dilfer has a ring and Marino doesn't. So why are we saying BB is the GOAT because of wins and rings?

because after a certain point, what may be happenstance moves beyond that point ... the consistency of a team being in contention for a championship year in year defines that...

 

[goheels22002]

hmmm... interesting ... what was guy chamberlins playoff record again?

0-0 He coached professional football before there were playoffs. Undefeated!

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Next person who claims Belichick isn’t the GOAT…who is the GOAT? I think you’ll find a lot of options of coaches who could only win championships with an all-time great QB. Or some, like Shula, who had Unitas, Griese, and Marino, and only won a couple. Gibbs is really the only guy who subbed out QBs and still won (Simms still played the bulk of the 90 season) the but the 80s are a weird decade too.

Personally, I think it’s a close call between Belichick and Halas. They’re both the GOAT because they did similar things (GM and coach) with long term dominance is different eras. And Halas was just about as dependent on Luckman for championships.

 

[stephens44]

Which makes it all the more baffling why you spend $150-200M in the offseason only to try to save 5-10M on your most important defensive anchor. Um what ? This is a concerning sign that Bill is maybe delegating to some dummies.

.

I think Gilmore's health is the issue. If he's not 100%, he's not the same guy.

 

[venecol]

This is my thought too - BB with the advantage of having the GOAT QB on his roster is generally considered GOAT because of wins and rings.

Should that be the case? I don't think it should. Wins are a team accomplishment. Barry Switzer has a ring but that doesn't mean he's a better coach than Marv Levy who doesn't. It's like the whole Trent Dilfer argument but for coaches.

Any intelligent fan agrees Bill is at least in the GOAT conversation beyond wins. But what makes him #1 if not wins? What exactly makes BB a greater coach than say Tom Landry? Tough question.

Nothing. It's the wins. Period.

 

[venecol]

I told you what makes Belichick better than every other coach beyond the rings. He does his job better than anyone else. He has all the angles covered. He is usually smarter than the guy on the opposite side of the field and forces the other team to play in a way that doesn't play to their strengths. He is always trying to find things outside the box to make the team just that much better. You dismiss all this as just doing his job.

When do you think we'll see this coach this season?

 

[Rob0729]

When do you think we'll see this coach this season?

It's three games in. This week is the seventh anniversary of Trent Dilfer saying the Pats aren't good anymore after getting crushed by the Chiefs. The Pats won the Super Bowl that year. Let's give it time. The Pats looking like absolute crap in September happened more than one or two times during the Brady era.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

I think Gilmore's health is the issue. If he's not 100%, he's not the same guy.

Riiiiight. And I'm sure him making 7m with the Pats refusing to budge has nothing to do with his current health....

 

[DropKickFlutie]

When do you think we'll see this coach this season?

It hasn't happened since 2018, it's been 3 years now. Pats used to peak in Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb. Now they fade over the season. I don't know if it's because Ernie is gone, or Chad O'Shea left, or Brady+Gronk, but basically with our not-smart oc this offense just gets worse and worse over time, not better as the season goes, and it's been a pattern now for 3 years, these are the new Patriots who fade not peak.

.

 

[Pape]

0-0 He coached professional football before there were playoffs. Undefeated!

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Coaches, Records, and Coaching Totals

www.pro-football-reference.com

0 wins is the point... He didn't win championships he was awarded them by finishing with the best record

 

[Patriot Missile]

All great coaches have the same thing in common. They had great players. If you ever watch a BB interview where he is comfortable with the reporter he will always, always be complimentary of the players. Walsh, Gibbs, Parcells, Shula, Knoll, Lombardi, Landry. The list goes on and on. They aren’t great without the talent. But it does go beyond that as far as team building, practice, scheming, getting the most out of every bit of the roster and your coaches. People that want to put BB down have their right to their opinion, however I just can’t agree with the fools that say he was nothing without Brady.