DRAFT BGC 2021 Pats Big Board - Draft Thread

[Joker]

you need a lot of practice on your "venting", Ken...you come across as educated, sane and even tempered...leave the venting to established pros...like ME...Joe "Volcano" Kerr

 

[SlowGettingUp]

I have to believe the Field's epilepsy news will cause him to drop at least a few places. The issue is not that it is a problem now given that it is well-managed, but there are absolutely justified concerns that even mild concussions can exacerbate epilepsy. So it adds some degree of risk to the pick. Other players like Tiki Barber have absolutely been fine, and chances are this is never an issue. But if you are mortgaging your franchise's future, even a small risk like this can give you pause.

5 NFL players with epilepsy

Do you know about these leading NFL players with epilepsy? Find out about the lives of famous American football players who have had seizures.

www.epsyhealth.com

 

[captain stone]

you need a lot of practice on your "venting", Ken...you come across as educated, sane and even tempered...leave the venting to established pros...like ME...Joe "Volcano" Kerr

Ken needs to start using words in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS like I do when I'm all Barney Rubble mean and mad...

 

[long distance]

This was not too much fun but wanted to grind it out for some reason - very approx IOL list. Comments to follow.

OL Landon ****erson #69 ALA (6’55-326>333-10“5-33“3-BP:)
OL Elijah Vera-Tucker #75 USC (6’45-308-32“-5.13-1.75-7.70-4.63+J-BP:32)
IOL Creed Humphrey #56 Oklahoma (6’4-312>302-32“5-5.11-1.71-7.50+J-BP:29)
IOL Quinn Meinerz #77 W-W (6’3-320-10“-33“5-4.99-1.73-4.58-7.54+32“VJ-BP:/)
IOL *Kendrick Green #53 Illinois (6’2-305-10“-32“3-4.89-1.69-4.67-7.79+35“5VJ!-BP:25)
OL *Josh Myers #71 Ohio St (6’5-310-10“5-32“-BP:29)
OL Ben Cleveland #74 Georgia (6’6-354>343-34“-5.05-1.77-4.88-BP:30)
G Aaron Banks #69 ND (6’5-338>325-10“-33“--5.34-1.91-7.73-BP:24)
G Deonte Brown #65 ALA (6’3-364>344-32“5-5.57-1.96-8.33)
G *Wyatt Davis #52 Ohio State (6’35-315-9“-34“-BP:25)
OL Trey Smith #73 Tennessee (6’55-330>321-10“-34“-5.11-1.75-4.82-7.43+J-BP:32)
OL Matt Farniok #71 Nebraska (6’5-330>311-5.20-1.78-4.47-7.19+J-BP:28)
OL David Moore #60 Grambling St (6’15-335>330-34“-5.19-1.81-4.90-8.06-BP:31)
IOL Samuel Cooper #77 Merrimack (6’15-305-10“-33“-5.20-1.69-4.88-7.69-BP:35)
OL Sadarius Hutcherson #50 S Carolina (6’35-320-32“5-5.01-1.75-BP:35)
C *Drew Dalman #51 Stanford (6’35-300-10“5-32“-5.05-1.74-4.51-7.33+J-BP:33)
C Michal Menet #62 Penn St (6’4-301-10“-31“5-BP:26)
OL Tommy Kraemer #78 ND (6’55-320>309-10“5-33“5-/)
G Royce Newman #72 Ole Miss (6’5-306>310-9“-34“-5.15-1.75-4.75-7.91-BP:23)
OL Robert Jones #64 M Tennessee St (6’4-320>307-33“5-5.32-1.83-4.84-8.16)
OL Larry Borom #79 Missouri (6’5-332-33“5-5.15-1.81-8.04-BP:21) hpfa
OL Kayode Awosika #73 Buffalo (6’3-307-9“-32“5-5.19-8.15-BP:28) hpfa
C Jimmy Morissey #67 Pitt (6’3-303-10“-33“-5.31-1.68-4.47-7.39+J-BP:26) hpfa
C Drake Jackson #52 Kentucky (6’2-293-8“-31“+VJ) udfa-TC/PS

 

[captain stone]

I don't trust ****erson to finish a season without starting it on a reserve list first.

 

[long distance]

This was not too much fun but wanted to grind it out for some reason - very approx IOL list. Comments to follow.

OL Landon ****erson #69 ALA (6’55-326>333-10“5-33“3-BP:)
OL Elijah Vera-Tucker #75 USC (6’45-308-32“-5.13-1.75-7.70-4.63+J-BP:32)
IOL Creed Humphrey #56 Oklahoma (6’4-312>302-32“5-5.11-1.71-7.50+J-BP:29)
IOL Quinn Meinerz #77 W-W (6’3-320-10“-33“5-4.99-1.73-4.58-7.54+32“VJ-BP:/)
IOL *Kendrick Green #53 Illinois (6’2-305-10“-32“3-4.89-1.69-4.67-7.79+35“5VJ!-BP:25)
OL *Josh Myers #71 Ohio St (6’5-310-10“5-32“-BP:29)
OL Ben Cleveland #74 Georgia (6’6-354>343-34“-5.05-1.77-4.88-BP:30)
G Aaron Banks #69 ND (6’5-338>325-10“-33“--5.34-1.91-7.73-BP:24)
G Deonte Brown #65 ALA (6’3-364>344-32“5-5.57-1.96-8.33)
G *Wyatt Davis #52 Ohio State (6’35-315-9“-34“-BP:25)
OL Trey Smith #73 Tennessee (6’55-330>321-10“-34“-5.11-1.75-4.82-7.43+J-BP:32)
OL Matt Farniok #71 Nebraska (6’5-330>311-5.20-1.78-4.47-7.19+J-BP:28)
OL David Moore #60 Grambling St (6’15-335>330-34“-5.19-1.81-4.90-8.06-BP:31)
IOL Samuel Cooper #77 Merrimack (6’15-305-10“-33“-5.20-1.69-4.88-7.69-BP:35)
OL Sadarius Hutcherson #50 S Carolina (6’35-320-32“5-5.01-1.75-BP:35)
C *Drew Dalman #51 Stanford (6’35-300-10“5-32“-5.05-1.74-4.51-7.33+J-BP:33)
C Michal Menet #62 Penn St (6’4-301-10“-31“5-BP:26)
OL Tommy Kraemer #78 ND (6’55-320>309-10“5-33“5-/)
G Royce Newman #72 Ole Miss (6’5-306>310-9“-34“-5.15-1.75-4.75-7.91-BP:23)
OL Robert Jones #64 M Tennessee St (6’4-320>307-33“5-5.32-1.83-4.84-8.16)
OL Larry Borom #79 Missouri (6’5-332-33“5-5.15-1.81-8.04-BP:21) hpfa
OL Kayode Awosika #73 Buffalo (6’3-307-9“-32“5-5.19-8.15-BP:28) hpfa
C Jimmy Morissey #67 Pitt (6’3-303-10“-33“-5.31-1.68-4.47-7.39+J-BP:26) hpfa
C Drake Jackson #52 Kentucky (6’2-293-8“-31“+VJ) udfa-TC/PS

Let me add some general and some specific comments:

1. This watch and final list was inspired by mistakes draft community makes every year and OL specialists in particular. There is still prevailing tendency on seeing, analysing and finally grading these guys as players instead of prospects. So f.e. “polished“ guys with average functional strength are graded higher than “raw“ big uglies. And year after year bigger, physically dominant “raw“ prospects are the ones transitioning better to NFL. The things analysts rave most about - technical aspects - are mostly coachable. Functional physical strength & natural athleticism (not just measurables), feel & understanding & hunger for the game are much more difficult to improve in NFL.

2. The top 2 guys can play all 5 positions so one could list them among tackles as well esp. since some of the listed tackles will probably move to guard for their NFL teams. If you want a good guard better look at tackle or center listings

3. We had a discussion on ****erson already. When healthy he is most impactful and versatile player on this list. Injury history is a concern and since im not a gambler i would not take him with #15. I would not like taking Vera-Tucker there either since id prefer picking up Wynn's option in that case. I hope Reiss and co are right sensing Pats will pick his 5y option.

4. Two guys that are much lower here than most lists are Wyatt Davis and Trey Smith. I just dont understand the hype or analysis there. Ok, Davis is a safe pick - but safe for what? Some even had him in 1st round and he can barely stand the college LOS. He also has some inj. history fwiw and played only one position iirc. Hes slowly “falling“ now on most boards but id really like to know what goes behind the hype (school PR, manager PR?) But why not hype Josh Myers then? Has more impact, more potential, more versatility. Just take any tape and look at Myers and Davis playing side by side..

5. The guys i believe deserve more consideration are Kendrick Green as early as D2, also Cleveland & Banks as strong guard options who seem to lack versatility, Matt Farniok & Sam Cooper in late rounds, maybe Hutcherson as a project,

-.-

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Honestly I'm really confused now after listening to a Chris Sims pod on PFT. Disclaimer: I really respect Sim's QB analysis. He knows the position, he watches film. In other words he puts in the work before he makes his opinions. At any rate he does a mock (where he has the Pats moving up to 11 to grab waddel) But as he goes on he has Fields dropping like a stone into the mid 20's. Earlier this week Bucky Brooks had Fields dropping as well and suggested the Ravens pick him and move on from Jackson before he hits is big contract. (plug and play). Interestingly Sim feels Jackson was a better prospect going in.

But in Sims defense he just doesn't say his hot take and move on. He takes the time to explain why. And he goes on to go into a discussion of Fields' delivery. He describes a hitch and a tendency to be all arm and not using his body. He goes into elbow positioning and other reasons why Fields might have an accuracy problem at the next level and why it will be critical to him to go to a team who has an excellent QB coach who understands the mechanics of passing. (He also bemoans how FEW coaches there are in the NFL who do understand passing, which is why so many QB work with outside specialists)

So here I am again...... feeling lost and confused. Is this the same Fields who PFF said was one of the MOST accurate passer in this QB class. OR is this a decent prospect who is likely to be there at 15 for the Pats and most boards have him rated as an end of the first round talent. Yesterday I would have been THRILLED to get Fields at 15 thinking there is no way he'll even get close to that point. Now 24 hours later the talk is the Pats could drop into the 20's and still get him.

So tell me Bacon. Is Sims full of it or are there real issues in this kid's delivery.

BTW- I saw this factoid somewhere In this century there have been 10 QB's picked 2-5. Only TWO have worked out as promised (Rivers and Ryan) So having a top 5 pick is no guarantee of success. though the top pick has a better chance. 2-5 have been very iffy with just a 20% success rate over the last 20 years

OK I've vented. Set me straight buddy. (or anyone else for that matter, )

I'm not as smart as Simms but here's what I wrote on the 18th of this month. I know I've touched on him a few times but I knew this was on the first page so I wouldn't have to look ...

Justin Fields
He's very coachable and wants to be coached. You see it in his behavior and actions on & off the sidelines. Engaged, focused. He's been working with former/current NFL players & coaches for years. He wants to be pushed and knows this isn't his final form. He knows there's a lot of work to do to get there. Whether it's reading concepts, throwing on the move or working on other issues hes a worker that doesn't run from mistakes. Everything on & off the record from OSU coaches have been positive.

Plenty of arm talent. Routinely shows off the ability to make NFL throws. Plenty of strength and velocity. Tight windows, far hash ropes, easy gas to touch 60 yards. In terms of the tough NFL passes, he makes them routinely. Nice touch, placement & accuracy. Can drop it over a shoulder, fit it on the sidelines, throw a change up - feather it over a defender and before the lines. Can also thread the needle, fire it through traffic. Arm talent is ++.

Almost a 3/4 throwing motion. Tight front shoulder, smooth delivery that could be a lil quicker but it's fluid & efficient. Ball jumps out. Slight hitch at times up top. Overall clean & effective. Could it improve, sure but show me who's couldn't at this stage to some degree. Base is solid - set, plays with enough bounce to evade. Nice balance in his lower half, allows him to really push, drive the ball. Can slide & disappear from would-be rushers, smooth lateral footwork but you don't see enough of it. It's there though. Need to see more. Would like to see him help himself more here. Creating, reworking a platform. Overall pretty clean but I believe his lower half could be more involved. Back foot comes up too often imo. Nice footwork but could faster, a little more efficient. Overall again pretty good but could improve some.

Fields plays with a toughness that should be unquestioned. It gets him into trouble at times imo. He might think he's a little bigger and faster than he is but he has "all in" mentality and toughness. There's no "fake it" here. He'll stand in the pocket or run for a first down, take a hit no problem. Frustrating at times but you don't win by playing scared in the NFL. Funnel and channel it. Designed runs, know when to toss it away, ease up on the contact. I could see him playing in the northeast. Has the size, arm and mentality imo. I think there's a "chip on the shoulder" angle here. Been tied with Lawrence forever. All this pre-draft nonsense, I'm sure Bill would have him on a mission.

Improved throwing on the move big time since HS. Maybe Lawrence's biggest asset is throwing to his non-dominant side. Fields has a lot of potential on the move as well. Bootlegs, scrambling, misdirection he's a big time threat with his athleticism and arm. 4.4 speed. Natural and comfortable here. Also saw improvement on finding his hot read and being quicker there. Good sign, I saw him fire the ball out many times here when he recognized pressure or had to go hot.

Pocket presence could definitely improve. Too often late to react, improvise at times. It's there and you see it but the feel and reaction need to be faster. I get the sense that at times he sees it coming but just thinks his athleticism and strength will be enough to make something happen. A lot of times that works. Those instances are coachable and can be worked out. These are mostly in front of him, he'll pretend like he doesn't see them and move at the last moment. Those can improve. It's the edge where his feel is really hit or miss. That is definitely a point of emphasis imo. Great command, vocal and active. They would run difference cadences, have snap issues and he deals with it. Recognizes and adjust pre & post snap. Its obvious he puts in the work. From his ability to work concepts & go through progressions. To his ability to look of certain defenders, know the weak spots in coverage and players to target. Able to do it all in that regard, could be faster. Overall very good but needs to improve his anticipation, need a little hurry up and work.

Needs to pass with anticipation more consistently but has flashed throwing lead shoulder and other examples many times.

Ran a complex system at a young age and excelled in many areas. OSU went away from mesh, we'll "out athlete" you every other play and went to a more vertical based offense. More option routes. More QB-WR on the same page stuff. Fields ran the most complex system out of the big names. Displayed he's the most accurate pocket passer in the class (almost every analytic person out there says Fields is the most accurate passer in the class) who just happens to run a 4.4. Prototype size - Cut up 6'3 225. Proportioned, loose muscles.

Fields has displayed great decision-making, accuracy and command in the pocket with a rifle for an arm. Precise, can hit from any distance on the field without reckless abandon. His pocket presence has to improve but it's not a killer, just a real area for growth.

Fields also has silly athleticism. Athleticism that wasn't always utilized probably imo. At times it looked like he wanted to prove a point hanging in the pocket. Where not talking huge leaps and bounds. Slight advancements with his presence and feel would go a long way.

Prospects like Fields don't come along every year. Pocket passers with a ratio of 60+ passing TD's to less than 10 INT the last two years. Athleticism to make defenses think, hesitate and suffer. He has that killer mentality and again I think Bill could really do work with him. Both have a lot to prove short term and could be a great pair.

...

So I definitely respect Simms bc although I believe he's a decent showman or entertainer he puts in work. And my grades look "out there" at the time of the draft so I appreciate non-consensus opinions if their original and come from the right place.

Fields could definitely improve his mechanics so I agree with him there. Touched on that above. I actually would lile him to get his lower half more involved overall. Like to see that back foot stat on the ground but I'm not a QB coach so w/e works. He could clean some stuff up for sure.
I don't want to say he's making too much of it but it's not a deal breaker for me at all. I bet most vets have tinkered and changed something from when they arrived. Mahomes had hit or miss footwork and still does at times, you see shades of that with Wilson in & out of the pocket. Like Mahomes he'll turn his back on the defense a lot. Brady has had a transformation over the years in that regard (mechanics). He's come so far if we think about him playing in that grainy footage. That's a whole other story, Tom has absolutely transformed his mechanics, body & mind. Like he's just not competitive, its a lifestyle, 24/7 for guys like him. Josh Allen has been working on his for years, saw some nice results. Dak too, he's a big time worker there. I just don't think there killers for Fields.

Fields definitely has issues but I'd honestly be shocked of he fell and there wasn't something seriously wrong with his background/character. That said I wouldn't have thought Lamar Jackson would fall. Hayden Hurst, Rashaad Penny, Terrell Edmunds and Sony Michel went before Jackson.

So while Fields has work to do I genuinely feel like there are no big road blocks in front of him. No deal breakers, nothing that's a red flag.

I see a classic pocket passer with 4.4 speed. He's not Jackson or Vick, doesn't have that elusiveness but that's extra stuff. Fields can break arm tackles, push a pile and run past most anyone on the field. In terms of winning bc of their arm, how much a team depended on their QB's arm, Fields was asked to do more than anyone imo. Compared to him Lawrence & Jones ran simple offenses that specialized in getting their WR's open, lived off yac yards, tons of first read, horizontal ... While Fields was reading vertical option/read routes down field. Fields displayed a lot playing the position imo.

He wants to work, sweat, grind. Wants to be pushed. I really like that about him, how could you not. I could definitely see Bill whispering **** in his ear about who got drafted in front of him and Lawrence this, Lawrence that. Fields would be a high pick, most likely lottery pick but there would still be plenty of room to build that chip in his shoulder. Remember him and Lawrence have been neck and neck since high school. Fields > Lawrence isn't a hot take imo. We'd be extremely lucky to get a prospect like him.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Let me add some general and some specific comments:

1. This watch and final list was inspired by mistakes draft community makes every year and OL specialists in particular. There is still prevailing tendency on seeing, analysing and finally grading these guys as players instead of prospects. So f.e. “polished“ guys with average functional strength are graded higher than “raw“ big uglies. And year after year bigger, physically dominant “raw“ prospects are the ones transitioning better to NFL. The things analysts rave most about - technical aspects - are mostly coachable. Functional physical strength & natural athleticism (not just measurables), feel & understanding & hunger for the game are much more difficult to improve in NFL.

2. The top 2 guys can play all 5 positions so one could list them among tackles as well esp. since some of the listed tackles will probably move to guard for their NFL teams. If you want a good guard better look at tackle or center listings

3. We had a discussion on ****erson already. When healthy he is most impactful and versatile player on this list. Injury history is a concern and since im not a gambler i would not take him with #15. I would not like taking Vera-Tucker there either since id prefer picking up Wynn's option in that case. I hope Reiss and co are right sensing Pats will pick his 5y option.

4. Two guys that are much lower here than most lists are Wyatt Davis and Trey Smith. I just dont understand the hype or analysis there. Ok, Davis is a safe pick - but safe for what? Some even had him in 1st round and he can barely stand the college LOS. He also has some inj. history fwiw and played only one position iirc. Hes slowly “falling“ now on most boards but id really like to know what goes behind the hype (school PR, manager PR?) But why not hype Josh Myers then? Has more impact, more potential, more versatility. Just take any tape and look at Myers and Davis playing side by side..

5. The guys i believe deserve more consideration are Kendrick Green as early as D2, also Cleveland & Banks as strong guard options who seem to lack versatility, Matt Farniok & Sam Cooper in late rounds, maybe Hutcherson as a project,

-.-

Where do you have them going , value/round?

 

[long distance]

Where do you have them going , value/round?

I dont have system, experience, job or interest to rank at exact rounds. Colours are approx tiers and possible value/impact in NFL as far as i can see.
Its all i can offer unfortunately My interest really is just to understand (and hopefully enjoy) the picks Pats make as they are made.

So on this list the first two i see as potential impactful starters + versatility, with ****erson potentially dominant NFL OL but injury concerns. Both high character, leadership, no-to-little scheme/organization/surrounding talent dependant.. Normally that could mean 1st round pick but under circumstances not at #15. Id understand though if they were BBs 1st round picks and wouldn't mind ****erson at all (one redshirt/backup year to fully recover and then he offers sweet worries how to compose relatively cheap impactful OL over next 3-4 years -> 2022 Onwenu to RT, ****erson LG or even RG if they want to move on from Mason and clear 7.5M cap, 2023 potentially moves to C etc) but i would mind V-T pick bc of probable implications to Wynn

Humphrey solid starter potential, some versatility, high character etc but not dominant. Where you draft him depends on situation. If you have two starting centers on board he is an afterthought, if you have no starting center that you trust he can be your 1st rounder (bottom - if you can get that pick). But id prefer to use 2nd (or lower) on Green than 1st on Humphrey in that situation.

Its all very circumstantial, inexact, divided by 32 different set of eyes/preferences/needs.. Top picks have certain measurable values but in the end it all matters only so much.

f.e. (hope you dont mind )
You had Onwenu graded as take a shot low rounder with a low overall grade. He was taken in the 6th round. While you can say you were right about his Draft day value, you and me and the rest of the league were very wrong evaluating his potential impact and value in NFL. Even positional values are questionable from a distance. ****erson is listed as center so someone argued his positional value is low but like w Onwenu there's a good chance he can play good NFL RT or dominant guard. You had Onwenu listed as center and its like the only position he hasn't played in his first year.

Dont get me wrong - what you do with grades and rounds is amazing job and very transparent and above all helpful and enjoyable to all of us. It offers easy vertical and horizontal overview and honestly i expected it would spark more board/mock conversation. But i guess its all just about QB.. I offered my two vertical listings i had time and interest to work on. I hope there is more horizontal board conversation here in the next 2 days.. (ill try to add my PTP horizontal options/preferences before draft)

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I dont have system, experience, job or interest to rank at exact rounds. Colours are approx tiers and possible value/impact in NFL as far as i can see.
Its all i can offer unfortunately My interest really is just to understand (and hopefully enjoy) the picks Pats make as they are made.

Gotcha just looking for a little context but I can guesstimate.

So on this list the first two i see as potential impactful starters + versatility, with ****erson potentially dominant NFL OL but injury concerns. Both high character, leadership, no-to-little scheme/organization/surrounding talent dependant.. Normally that could mean 1st round pick but under circumstances not at #15. Id understand though if they were BBs 1st round picks and wouldn't mind ****erson at all (one redshirt/backup year to fully recover and then he offers sweet worries how to compose relatively cheap impactful OL over next 3-4 years -> 2022 Onwenu to RT, ****erson LG or even RG if they want to move on from Mason and clear 7.5M cap, 2023 potentially moves to C etc) but i would mind V-T pick bc of probable implications to Wynn

Humphrey solid starter potential, some versatility, high character etc but not dominant. Where you draft him depends on situation. If you have two starting centers on board he is an afterthought, if you have no starting center that you trust he can be your 1st rounder (bottom - if you can get that pick). But id prefer to use 2nd (or lower) on Green than 1st on Humphrey in that situation.

Its all very circumstantial, inexact, divided by 32 different set of eyes/preferences/needs.. Top picks have certain measurable values but in the end it all matters only so much.

f.e. (hope you dont mind )
You had Onwenu graded as take a shot low rounder with a low overall grade. He was taken in the 6th round. While you can say you were right about his Draft day value, you and me and the rest of the league were very wrong evaluating his potential impact and value in NFL. Even positional values are questionable from a distance. ****erson is listed as center so someone argued his positional value is low but like w Onwenu there's a good chance he can play good NFL RT or dominant guard. You had Onwenu listed as center and its like the only position he hasn't played in his first year.

Value is a weird subject. It's constant in some areas and changes in others. It's quite clear and subjective. It's necessary though, especially for the pros. It helps set the board, gage where others heads are at, helps avoid mistakes and steal a gem. It's a crazy game to play. I'm grateful for @BobDigital work in the draft forum keeping me honest and on my toes.

As of now I was a little too low on Onwenu. Think I had him as a 5th, we'll see how it plays out. I should have listed him at G also. I go out on a limb or have an opinion (Wynn at G) and am wrong there. In my defense I spend about 10 seconds thinking about it. Usually I try to envision an optimum fit but I should go safe with that stuff bc I'm not a coach. Just estimating what type of player that prospect will be.

Dont get me wrong - what you do with grades and rounds is amazing job and very transparent and above all helpful and enjoyable to all of us. It offers easy vertical and horizontal overview and honestly i expected it would spark more board/mock conversation. But i guess its all just about QB.. I offered my two vertical listings i had time and interest to work on. I hope there is more horizontal board conversation here in the next 2 days.. (ill try to add my PTP horizontal options/preferences before draft)

It'll look a little different tomorrow.

But I think it's clear what we're hoping for at 15, once the draft starts. We want a QB. If we can't get one it's like 5-6 players or trade back.

 

[jimnance]

I think & hope it's clear I'm joking with Ken. I have np with degenerates, im from Charlestown.

Of course its clear lol. Your line about Ken made me laugh out loud. Bet he did the same. And Ken is from Dorchester, myself from JP and Dorchester, so both of us also np with degenerates.

 

[Joker]

Lots of smoke about a move up...in my opinion as a long time rabid NFL fan and a certain sense about BB's reasoning, if he can't pull the trigger to move up for the QB, he's backing out of the first round or at least down to the late 20's on pure value alone.If he can finagle 2 second round picks, he'll do that in this draft and I expect he'd even use a 2nd to get more picks in the third or 4th. It's what he's done in the past when moving up has failed.

 

[SBLIII]

Lots of smoke about a move up...in my opinion as a long time rabid NFL fan and a certain sense about BB's reasoning, if he can't pull the trigger to move up for the QB, he's backing out of the first round or at least down to the late 20's on pure value alone.If he can finagle 2 second round picks, he'll do that in this draft and I expect he'd even use a 2nd to get more picks in the third or 4th. It's what he's done in the past when moving up has failed.

might depend on how much higher he has prospects like Horn, Parsons or Smith on his board compared to counterparts. If they are all gone and the best player is someone like Paye at 15, he should move down

 

[long distance]

some DL Board/prospect questions @BaconGrundleCandy and the rest of the gang before i dive into some more DL tape:

1. How come you have Osa graded so low and put off the board completely? I like him for NE actually, has legit 0-9 versatility, has experience and ability to 2-gap, he is long despite being on the shorter side, had very good Senior Bowl, tested ok and above all has good tape as far as i could see. On limited tape i saw i liked him better than Levi actually (they tested similarly on similar frames) which is against all boards - I'll go watch more but id be interested to hear from you.

2. On the other hand i cant understand Tuipulotu hype. Vs UCLA was one of the ugliest DL tapes i saw. Which tape can you recommend to see good things from him and Tufele?
2b. Why would you prefer to keep them on your board vs Togiai who looks every bit PTP 3T (that people here see as a need) and Pats actually met with fwiw?

3. Whats worth seeing from Stills?

4. What do you know/think about Nixon's off-field stuff that “reportedly“ put him off some team boards?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

some DL Board/prospect questions @BaconGrundleCandy and the rest of the gang before i dive into some more DL tape:

1. How come you have Osa graded so low and put off the board completely? I like him for NE actually, has legit 0-9 versatility, has experience and ability to 2-gap, he is long despite being on the shorter side, had very good Senior Bowl, tested ok and above all has good tape as far as i could see. On limited tape i saw i liked him better than Levi actually (they tested similarly on similar frames) which is against all boards - I'll go watch more but id be interested to hear from you.

He's not that versatile tbh. There's no way he's holding up inside in a 34 and he's not skilled enough to make a living full-time outside. He's a sub-rusher in a 43 imo. Like once you start to paint a picture of him playing in the NFL it gets real quick. Especially considering how often we play 1/2 IDL. Is he that much of an upgrade compared to Wise? Just doesn't have the bend/athleticism to win outside and despite his long arm he gets caught up too often. 6'1/280, he's going to have a hard time or get lucky with the perfect coach/system fit. Plus in terms of athletic testing, Pats-Type, Osa is down on the list compared to the USC guys, Togiai.

2. On the other hand i cant understand Tuipulotu hype. Vs UCLA was one of the ugliest DL tapes i saw. Which tape can you recommend to see good things from him and Tufele?

Stanford, Washington, Oregon, Iowa

2b. Why would you prefer to keep them on your board vs Togiai who looks every bit PTP 3T (that people here see as a need) and Pats actually met with fwiw?

Togiai is close for me. Again those other guys just fit more from a testing/profile pov.

3. Whats worth seeing from Stills?

I'd watch anything from him. Undersized, limited but the things he's good at he's really good at. Snap jumper with impressive burst & anticipation off the line. His first step is pretty good. Very disruptive, tons of motor. Not much position versatility, Mike Daniels type so it'll take the right team but he's worth a look. *edit* Daniels is a bad comp on my part but you get the idea.

4. What do you know/think about Nixon's off-field stuff that “reportedly“ put him off some team boards?

I don't know anything concrete. Heard something but no idea if it's true or not. Something about his views on certain issues/politics but again who knows. Colleges do a great job of covering this stuff up. No is better than Bama.

 

[long distance]

Here's a nice overview of defensive class with clips for those who didn't/don't have much time and want to at least take a look at prospects we will be talking about over the next days:

 

[long distance]

Moving up David Moore after i was finally able to see more of the tape how he annihilated Milton Williams.

Powerful core to work with . project as a player . but Pats can afford that this year and he could be nice future investment with one of the 4th.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

 

[long distance]

Suggestion

Since official Day 1 Draft thread will quickly turn into GDT with sole focus on trading up, QBs, rumours, other teams picks etc..
maybe we can use this one today to have some in-depth discussion about Pats overall draft

I thought there would be more horizontal board, strategy, options, positions etc discussion here - so hopefully we can have it today.

So anybody up for that?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Suggestion

Since official Day 1 Draft thread will quickly turn into GDT with sole focus on trading up, QBs, rumours, other teams picks etc..
maybe we can use this one today to have some in-depth discussion about Pats overall draft

I thought there would be more horizontal board, strategy, options, positions etc discussion here - so hopefully we can have it today.

So anybody up for that?

I don't really see this as a deep draft. Imo this year really is a 3-4 round draft. Esp IDL, QB, Tackle ... Curious how we attack some positions this year. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see us trade up more than down after 15. Seems like a good year to go get your guys with the opt outs, lots of picks and depth of the overall class.