Why the BB vs Brady argument is unfair

[amfootball]

Nobody did. But BB drafted him and carried him as a fourth QB. At least a little credit is due.

And he also traded Bledsoe to the Bills. I think Bill deserves a ton of credit for that move. One of the gutsiest moves in all of sports. But I would add he made that move because he saw the talents of Brady and what he could accomplish with him. That is how convincing Brady was when he arrived and then by his second year winning the SB off the bench. Made Bill say time to trade Bledsoe at age 29 making $100 mil.

 

[Triumph]

Nobody did. But BB drafted him and carried him as a fourth QB. At least a little credit is due.

Yes, but there is a huge difference in the manner that Red Auerbach stole Larry Bird from everybody else in the NBA.

Red deserves 100% credit for the pick.

 

[Wozzy]

Brady was a fluke.

BB had no idea that Brady was this good. If he did he would not have waited until pick 199.

BB drafted Brady at a position of value, there's a good chance if he didn't draft him Brady would have gone undrafted.

BB drafted Tom Brady.

Nobody uses draft picks lightly, if he didn't want him he wouldn't have drafted him or tried to barter for his services afterwards as an UDFA.

 

[Triumph]

Brady has 0 Super Bowls without BB. And?

A HOF QB will win you Super Bowls. The Vinny Testaverdes and Cam Newtons wont.

 

[Nikolai]

I think BB would say Brady was more important on a game-to-game basis. Players play the game. BB built those teams, the game plans,, and more or less handed it off to Brady to take them to the winner's circle...six times. They needed each other to win SIX Super Bowls.

The same people who can't appreciate that now likely didn't appreciate it then either. So why argue with them? Let them wallow in regret.

Stones were a better band...

And Led Zeppelin was the best band...

 

[Nikolai]

A HOF QB will win you Super Bowls. The Vinny Testaverdes and Cam Newtons wont.

Trent Dilfers and Brad Johnsons do.

 

[Triumph]

BB drafted Brady at a position of value, there's a good chance if he didn't draft him Brady would have gone undrafted.

BB drafted Tom Brady.

Nobody uses draft picks lightly, if he didn't want him he wouldn't have drafted him or tried to barter for his services afterwards as an UDFA.

Wut???

BB burns 5th and 6th round picks like cigars.

He spent a 5th on a Punter that never saw the field. I guess he still around someplace on the practice squad. Braxton Berrios was a 6th and was cut 5 months after he was drafted.

 

[Triumph]

Trent Dilfers and Brad Johnsons do.

Its very rare that you win a Super Bowl with guys like that and the NFL has changed to a passing game.

 

[amfootball]

I think BB would say Brady was more important on a game-to-game basis. Players play the game. BB built those teams, the game plans,, and more or less handed it off to Brady to take them to the winner's circle...six times. They needed each other to win SIX Super Bowls.

The same people who can't appreciate that now likely didn't appreciate it then either. So why argue with them? Let them wallow in regret.



And Led Zeppelin was the best band...

Bill has said the most important player to the Patriots dynasty was Brady. It was during a press conference when he was asked about Vinatieri when he was retiring and how important Adam was to the success of team and Bill said no one was more important than Brady. I will try to find the quote.

 

[bigballas]

QBs > Coaches

With that said I wonder if the Pats would have made the playoffs if Brady was suspended for the season in 2016.

With JG I say yes. With Brissett no.

correct. see AaronRodgers/FatMikeMcCarthy as an example. Years of establishin the run. FatMike can't even win the NFCE with a loaded roster

 

[Tony2046]

A HOF QB will win you Super Bowls. The Vinny Testaverdes and Cam Newtons wont.

If Cam Newton had BB as his initial HC he'd be wearing a ring.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I wouldn't argue that BB is somehow responsible for what TB is doing in TB but I do think it's fair to say that BB helped Brady become what he is today. In the context of the "who was more valuable" BS argument that comment is basically in support of "they were both valuable to each other" retort.

Sure...Bill helped. Tom is lucky to have had a great coach and great football mind like Bill. But the degree to which Bill‘s credit is applied is unlike anything else in sports. Teams invest millions of dollars in young quarterbacks and surround them with very intelligent coaches, break down film, provide models of leadership and accountability.

Imagine the praise for ingeniously creating a gameplan to beat a team that stomped you 2X in the regular season, if your name were Bill Belichick and not Bruce Arians. What would people be saying right now? We literally have people who are crediting Brady’s success in Tampa Bay to a former coach before they’d even consider crediting his current coach.

 

[Sicilian]

We only have this year so far so that is fair. Everything will be reevaluated next year. That's how it works.

Perhaps fair is the wrong word. It's premature.

 

[amfootball]

Imagine the praise for ingeniously creating a game plan to beat a team that stomped you 2X in the regular season, if your name were Bill Belichick and not Bruce Arians. What would people be saying right now? We literally have people who are crediting Brady’s success in Tampa Bay to a former coach before they’d even consider crediting his current coach.

Such a great point. LOL.

 

[amfootball]

Perhaps fair is the wrong word. It's premature.

But it's not premature. We are not going to have that many seasons to evaluate them given Brady is 43. This season was always going to be heavily scrutinized no matter which way it went. The fact that it got so lopsided with the Pats having a losing season for the first time since 2000 and Brady is in the conf. champ game just makes it seem over the top but the analysis is fair for this season. It will be further analyzed next season.

 

[Sicilian]

I disagree. Brady went to a irrelevant franchise with a loser mentality that was under 500 last year and hasn’t been on the playoffs for 13 years. He has them in the NFC title game. They do have talent at the skill positions but with Covid and reduced practice it’s pretty damn special what he’s been able to do. He instantly brought credibility and belief.

Belichick’s team was 12-4 last year. Yes they are starting to rebuild, but who’s at fault for the roster talent level?

I think Brady is himself a difference between 3-6 added wins, depending on the team.

The Bucs have talent across the board. They also had a QB who threw for 30+ interceptions, which is a number so high I have to double check every time I think about it... I'm not trying to downplay what Brady was able to do (what he's always able to do in his 40's, which is incredible). I'm just saying he was replacing an absolutely liability at the most important position on the field, but otherwise the Bucs were set up on both sides of the ball.

But it's not premature. We are not going to have that many seasons to evaluate them given Brady is 43. This season was always going to be heavily scrutinized no matter which way it went. The fact that it got so lopsided with the Pats having a losing season for the first time since 2000 and Brady is in the conf. champ game just makes it seem over the top but the analysis is fair for this season. It will be further analyzed next season.

It's not premature to scrutinize any one year, but it absolutely IS premature to declare Brady was definitively more important than Bill for the past 20 years using ONLY this year. And that's the kind of language I'm objecting to: Those are saying this is somehow definitive proof one way or the other. Their careers are not over.

 

[amfootball]

It's not premature to scrutinize any one year, but it absolutely IS premature to declare Brady was definitively more important than Bill for the past 20 years using ONLY this year. And that's the kind of language I'm objecting to: Those are saying this is somehow definitive proof one way or the other. Their careers are not over.

Sure. It depends though how you felt before this season. I always believed Brady was more important to the success of the dynasty than Bill, not that Bill was unimportant by any means but I always believe the transcendent player is the more important piece. For me, this season was just confirmation of that.

 

[Sicilian]

I always believed Brady was more important to the success of the dynasty than Bill

And I think I'd have to say that as well. Just a matter of degrees, and I think this year was disproportionate to their importance. In other words, their relative importance was not the difference between a potential Super Bowl trip (or win) and missing the playoffs.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Brady has 0 Super Bowls without BB. And?

Your point is a good one.

It isn’t about Super Bowls. It isn’t about their 2020 win/loss records. It’s about Tom going to a completely different system, terminology, culture, and looking exactly the same. Efficiency, preparation, poise, results. Those are Tom’s attributes. It isn’t about 40 TDs...that’s more about skill players as it always has. But it’s about the way he’s played and the way he’s looked...the same player.

There’s nothing another Super Bowl would do, in my book, to make me change my opinion on Tom’s relationship with Bill. Whether he wins one or not is irrelevant. It’s not a victory lap for people who have been trying to myth bust the idea that Belichick is magical wizard.

Bill has done, for 20 years, arguably more than any coach/GM (dual role) in the expansion/salary cap era - for any US sport, by being a phenomenal coach and GM but not by sprinkling dairy dust on Tom.

One interesting wrinkle is that Tom has gotten more comfortable in Tampa because Arians simplified the route trees. I’ve said for years that this actually isn’t as complicated as people make it out to be, and that Tom is always at his best when teams have used all their wrinkles and it’s just about execution - not chess moves - in the 4th quarter in the postseason. Manning did the same thing in Denver. I think there’s a misunderstanding about the types of complexities quarterbacks deal with to be successful.

Why is it that the smartest offense in the NFL was shutout in the first quarter in nine Super Bowls, though that’s the time they run their scripted plays dialed up prior to the game, but in the fourth quarter they were always unstoppable? This isn’t to crap on the Patriots but to consider that Brady, and most QBs, are not as scripted or micro-coached as some (especially here) make them out to be.

 

[Wozzy]

Wut???

BB burns 5th and 6th round picks like cigars.

He spent a 5th on a Punter that never saw the field. I guess he still around someplace on the practice squad. Braxton Berrios was a 6th and was cut 5 months after he was drafted.

BB gets lambasted for missed picks, gets no credit for good picks... you BB haters are predictably irrational and petty. Bill also carried Brady with 4 QB’s and moved him up the depth chart quickly. Just luck I suppose...