Breer: How the wheels came off the Pats dynasty

[Wozzy]

This is just bizarre. If he's a stud, then Antoine Winfield and Jeremy Chinn are All Pro's/DPOTY.

The guy has done nothing that stands out to signal he will be a future stud. Other than 58 total tackles, he has 1 pass defensed and 1 tackle for a loss. That's it! He hasn't shown any presence in the middle of the field or that he could be an enforcer/pest.


He had a couple good rushes, but that's it. Winovich showed more promise last year, but has regressed big time.

You're among the contingent who said we sucked and had "no talent" in 2014, 2016 and 2018... forgive me if I ignore the moaning.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Onwenu might be the best O-Lineman in the 2020 draft, Duggar looks like a stud, Uche has flashed... but yeah.

this past draft was his best in quite some time. Need to build on it this coming April.

 

[ivanvamp]

That is a completely different (and irrelevant) subject. Find or create another thread if you want to bask in past glory.

That whooshing sound was my point going way over your head.

 

[ivanvamp]

Green Bay, New Orleans, Baltimore, Seattle are 4 teams that generally pick in the bottom 10 the last decade or so.

And every one of those teams has had down years.

Green Bay
2017: 7-9 (21st ranked O, 26th ranked D)
2018: 6-9-1 (14th ranked O, 22nd ranked D)

New Orleans
2012: 7-9 (31st ranked D)
2014: 7-9 (28th ranked D)
2015: 7-9 (32nd ranked D)
2016: 7-9 (31st ranked D)

Baltimore
2015: 5-11 (25th ranked O, 24th ranked D)
2016: 8-8 (21st ranked O)

Seattle
2008: 4-12 (25th ranked O, 25th ranked D)
2009: 5-11 (25th ranked O, 25th ranked D)
2010: 7-9 (23rd ranked O, 25th ranked D)
2011: 7-9 (23rd ranked O)

Every team that's been at the top of the league over the last decade or so has gone through some pretty awful years. Pittsburgh being a bit of an exception with no losing seasons, but even them....from 2012-2020, they've had three 8-8 years and missed the playoffs 4 times over that span.

So it's perfectly natural for the Patriots to FINALLY have a down year, especially the year after Brady leaves. What's incredible is that they haven't had a down year SOONER than this. Anyone who is actually upset about this as a Pats fan is crazy.

 

[farn]

I don’t even know where to start. Perhaps there is much truth in the article and if so, then it’s too bad BB hasn’t listened to his scouting dept enough.

My main beef, reading through the comments, is « what planet are you living upon » ? I mean, does BB need to field alltime greats at every single position and win every SB by 15 pts for him to be worthwhile ?

Take a peek at the opening day rosters of the 2007 & 2017 seasons. Ten years apart. Stacked.

 

[farn]

Green Bay, New Orleans, Baltimore, Seattle are 4 teams that generally pick in the bottom 10 the last decade or so.

The have won how many SBs in the last 20 years ? And @ivanvamp tells it like it is : while BB was winning (SB 2014, SB 2016), Payton was leading his team to 7-9 records.

 

[ivanvamp]

The have won how many SBs in the last 20 years ? And @ivanvamp tells it like it is : while BB was winning (SB 2014, SB 2016), Payton was leading his team to 7-9 records.

Since 2008, Seattle, Green Bay, New Orleans, and Baltimore combined have won 4 Super Bowls, and had 11 losing seasons (out of 52 combined seasons...that's 1 every 5 years) while the Patriots alone have won 3 Super Bowls, and have had just 1 losing season in 13 years.

 

[DaBruinz]

WTF. Even I know that aceing the job interview doesn’t mean you’ll do a great job.

Stop listening to your buddies and fix this thing.

How the F do you know what Breer is saying is the truth? HUH? Did you ever stop to think that Breer is posting garbage based on the preconceived idea that BB doesn't listen to his scouts? Despite the fact that BB admitted that he was wrong with the Jackson pick? And we KNOW BB admitted to being wrong about it.

Seriously. Do you always believe everything you read? Especially from a known click-baiter like Breer?

 

[DaBruinz]

Didn’t know about the connection between Belichick and Harry’s coach. Another unfortunate example of drafting due to relationship with a college coach over ya know guys who are paid to figure out if players will translate into the NFL.

Gotta love how you assume that Breer is telling the truth and isn't making an assumption based on the last time BB drafted a highly touted WR in Jackson and over-ruled his scouting dept.

 

[patman52]

This article basically says -and I’ve heard others say it too - that the rebuild doesn’t begin this season...it begins NEXT season.

Gonna be a rough ride ahead.

What do you mean it did not begin this season? Did they not keep cash instead of spending it? If a team has millions of cap space and does not sign players it means it has begun. Next year we have money where most teams do not and improvements will be made. I don't know what you mean by a rough ride. does not making the playoffs while the team rebuilds over the next 2-3 years constitute a rough ride to you. A rough ride to me is going back to the late 80s early 90s- thats rough.

 

[DaBruinz]

I despise Bert Breer, but in this case he's not wrong...I found especially insightful those quotes from personnel execs regarding Jennings, AssyAssy & Keene...the same thoughts some of us had the moment these three useless piles of rancid poopoo were drafted ... So to those fanboys ready to play the But Hindsight card: GFY.

You should GFY. You're the guy who makes blind squirrels look like they Strike gold when they find that single nut.

The fact you hang your hat on some Crap AFC Personnel Director who does't have the balls to be named speaks volumes about you. For all you know, the guy Breer talked with was from the JETES or JAGS. Hell, it could be the Dolphins Personnel Director. And what does it say about him when he's signed more than a few Pats players?

 

[DaBruinz]

My major concern is that does he have strong enough voices on his staff that will stand up to him and say "No, Bill".

It's amazing how articles like Breer's contradict the books and interviews with guys like Caserio, Dimitroff, and Pioli. The books and interviews that stated that Bill ALWAYS listens to people's opinions. In the end, though, it is HIS decision as the GM. Yes, he over-rode Daboll and the scouts when it came to Jackson, but BB admitted that he was wrong in doing so. All we have is Breer's speculation that BB over-road the Scouts again when it came to Harry.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

On the other hand, the Broncos drafted Demaryius Thomas and Eric Decker during his tenure there who turned out to be quite good WRs.

And everyone was aghast when McD traded Jay Cutler to Chicago which was the right and brave decision. But no one talks about the good decisions. Only complains and points fingers.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Twenty free agents sounds like a lot, but it really isn't. Most contracts are only 1-2 year deals and very few are for four or five years, so teams annually have about 17-20 free agents.

We (and every other fanbase) go through the 'OMG, we have so many free agents' handwringing each and every year.

The Pats may be on the high side of the number of free agents in comparison to other teams, but if so it is by a very minute number.

The websites that list projected cap space average the salaries for 51 or 53 players. The salaries are not exact because the final signed contracts are not finished but they are smart enough to not list the cap space for 1 team with 30 players versus another team with 40 players.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Deleted

 

[DaBruinz]

I‘m not a Breer fan and don’t really trust his reporting, so there’s that. But the roster analysis is spot on, which is not a shock. It’s not a secret that Bill needs to get young talent to Foxborough ASAP.

There is a LOT of young talent on this team already. This team got younger just by the fact of Brady and Gostkowski not returning. There will be MORE coming next season since they have a but load of picks already and should end up with 4 compensatory as well. You also have the perennial unheralded UDFA that shows up.

Breer's roster analysis leaves a lot to be desired.

The NFC Exec Breer quotes is a horse's ass. Jon Jones is one of the best Slot Corners in the league. Jason McCourty isn't Jackson or Gilmore, but he's not chopped liver. He's a good vet to have coming off the bench . That Exec doesn't know DMac? Really? He's one of the best all-around safeties in the game.

Any competent Executive knows that a team can't lose it's top 4 LBs during an off-season and still be effective. It just doesn't happen. So, yeah, it's going to take more than 1 year to get that unit rebuilt Uche and Jennings are a Start. As is Hall. I don't foresee Hall as a starter, but there is no reason he can't be the next Larry Izzo or Marty Moore.

Contrary to the Exec quoted, neither Asiasi nor Keene were "over-drafted" Both had 3rd/4th round grades. So taking them at 27 and 37 respectively isn't over-drafting them.

This team has a good set of young RBs in Michel, Harris, and Taylor. It also has a good FB in Johnson.

The O-line is in question until they decide what to do with Thuney. Bringing Thuney back and sliding him to Center full time would allow them to put Onwenu at LG and Herron at RT. Wynn would return at LT and Mason at RG. That would probably be the most physical O-line the Patriots have put out there since Hannah and Gray played. It would allow them to be run first and would open up the play-action pass and passing game for whichever QB is there.

After Thuney, getting a QB and figuring out the NT position would be the next priority. Hopefully the decision is to move on from Cam because he's just terrible. As people have mentioned, he's late on his reads, late on his throws, and has zero pocket sense. Yeah, he knows how to run away once he's felt that arm hit him, but, it's usually too late by then.

 

[Kdo5]

Gotta love how you assume that Breer is telling the truth and isn't making an assumption based on the last time BB drafted a highly touted WR in Jackson and over-ruled his scouting dept.

why wouldnt i assume he is telling the truth? he and others were right about the brady/belichick problems when people like you were saying it was all media bs.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This is not good news. What makes us think BB will change how he drafts? Us older folks on the board here know its hard to change as you get older.

It is half exaggerated news. If you are older you must have learned that people have axes to grind and are always quick to be anonymous sources. Having been around, Breer knows who to call to get what he wants to fill out a negative story.

 

[State]

Bill needs to reach out to people when it comes to the draft. I don’t see this being a quick fix. We need to draft well the next couple of years.

Our own Bacon!

 

[TomPatriot]

There is a LOT of young talent on this team already. This team got younger just by the fact of Brady and Gostkowski not returning. There will be MORE coming next season since they have a but load of picks already and should end up with 4 compensatory as well. You also have the perennial unheralded UDFA that shows up.

Breer's roster analysis leaves a lot to be desired.

The NFC Exec Breer quotes is a horse's ass. Jon Jones is one of the best Slot Corners in the league. Jason McCourty isn't Jackson or Gilmore, but he's not chopped liver. He's a good vet to have coming off the bench . That Exec doesn't know DMac? Really? He's one of the best all-around safeties in the game.

Any competent Executive knows that a team can't lose it's top 4 LBs during an off-season and still be effective. It just doesn't happen. So, yeah, it's going to take more than 1 year to get that unit rebuilt Uche and Jennings are a Start. As is Hall. I don't foresee Hall as a starter, but there is no reason he can't be the next Larry Izzo or Marty Moore.

Contrary to the Exec quoted, neither Asiasi nor Keene were "over-drafted" Both had 3rd/4th round grades. So taking them at 27 and 37 respectively isn't over-drafting them.

This team has a good set of young RBs in Michel, Harris, and Taylor. It also has a good FB in Johnson.

The O-line is in question until they decide what to do with Thuney. Bringing Thuney back and sliding him to Center full time would allow them to put Onwenu at LG and Herron at RT. Wynn would return at LT and Mason at RG. That would probably be the most physical O-line the Patriots have put out there since Hannah and Gray played. It would allow them to be run first and would open up the play-action pass and passing game for whichever QB is there.

After Thuney, getting a QB and figuring out the NT position would be the next priority. Hopefully the decision is to move on from Cam because he's just terrible. As people have mentioned, he's late on his reads, late on his throws, and has zero pocket sense. Yeah, he knows how to run away once he's felt that arm hit him, but, it's usually too late by then.

When I say young talent, I also mean at least two guys starting their first post-rookie contract too. BB needs to signs a few young vets.

I can’t tell how good some of this year‘s picks are, so they all get a pass from me. The Pats can evaluate them, but they all need another year. I like Onwenu, though I think he makes more mistakes than some people think. I like Dugger and Uche a lot. Herron needs a lot of work.

Wino, Harris and Bailey standout from the 2019 draft. Everyone else is a jag or gone. 2018 is basically Wynn and Michel. 2017 is Wise and he wont be back. The 2016 draft is Thuney, who won’t be back without a top 5 OL contract. That’s probably 15m, 4 years, $25m guaranteed. I’m not sure BB is paying that.

JMac and DMac will be 34 next year. It is showing.

I think Thuney’s worst position is C. He’s a great LG. He’s as good an LT as Wynn, who is a good developing player. Sometimes I think they should switch. Herron is a big ? Mason is a very good RG. They’d miss Andrews.

I agree on Hall. He’s better than people think against the run. JJ is a good slot corner.

We agree on Cam. He can’t throw and he is an inaccurate passer in a complicated, precision offense. That’s one reason for the offensive failure.

Add all this up and you see a dearth of really good players. They need a dozen more. It can be done. And if Beane and Grier can do it, BB certainly can.