We're starting to see the team right the ship

[stcjones]

They were the # 1 defense in the NFL last year and won the Sb the year before mostly because of their defense. Systemically they are a top 3 defense. They rank either 1 or 2 in points allowed in the belichick era. (The site to search those numbers isn’t free any more so it could be 1 or 2 right now.)

They lost so many key people in FA, and then with Covid walkouts.....not even remotely the same D....and as we found out last year, they got EXPOSED against the better teams. This is a team in rebuild mode that is playing its ***es off most every week. I’m inspired that they don’t quit....and that character is what we need going forward....

 

[Lagaffe_07]

If he gets an excellent OL, I won’t be in the “lose our mind” crew.

The OL is the least of our worries.

it is not like we need front 7, linebackers, TE, WR, QB !

 

[farn]

The OL is the least of our worries.

it is not like we need front 7, linebackers, TE, WR, QB !

I believe that having “too many very good OL” is never a problem, regardless. In fact, I’d say the OL is much more important than TE.

BB will need to address positions of need in the offseason. But if the rebuild starts with a ProBowler at OL in the first round, I’m “in”.

 

[203Pat]

Bentley has been awful...he’s lucky to still be here (not sure what BB is seeing)

He has played terribly but I really can't fault him too much. He is a 5th round pick who is being overused and playing out of position due to poor roster management. His ideal spot is a role player run stuffer. He is basically Bryan Cox.

 

[Ring 6]

That was Then; This is Now.

Huh? The 20 greatest years in Nfl history and the #1 defense in the nfl just last year and you think suddenly no one knows what they are doing? I know you like to act like you are smarter than belichick but you are off the rails here.

 

[Ring 6]

They lost so many key people in FA, and then with Covid walkouts.....not even remotely the same D....and as we found out last year, they got EXPOSED against the better teams. This is a team in rebuild mode that is playing its ***es off most every week. I’m inspired that they don’t quit....and that character is what we need going forward....

You called it SYSTEMIC. Losing guys because of the cap, and covid aren’t systemic.
every defense plays worse against better teams. That isn’t being exposed it’s reality. Being the best isn’t diminished because good teams play better against you than bad teams because that happens to the 2nd best, 3rd best, etc etc

 

[Ring 6]

They lost so many key people in FA, and then with Covid walkouts.....not even remotely the same D....and as we found out last year, they got EXPOSED against the better teams. This is a team in rebuild mode that is playing its ***es off most every week. I’m inspired that they don’t quit....and that character is what we need going forward....

Why would they quit? You act like that’s a normal response for a football player. They have been in every game but one and are a couple of plays from being 6-2. They have half a season left and are 2 games out of the playoffs. What would possibly make them consider giving up? Fans *****ing that they suck?

 

[sb1]

You called it SYSTEMIC. Losing guys because of the cap, and covid aren’t systemic.
every defense plays worse against better teams. That isn’t being exposed it’s reality. Being the best isn’t diminished because good teams play better against you than bad teams because that happens to the 2nd best, 3rd best, etc etc

The defense wasn't very good vs Miami in week 17 nor the first half of the playoff game but they were very good in the second half. The offense - well you know.

 

[Ring 6]

The defense wasn't very good vs Miami in week 17 nor the first half of the playoff game but they were very good in the second half. The offense - well you know.

They were the best defense in the nfl. Choosing games they didn’t play their best doesn’t change that unless you want to show me the better defense that was great in every game they played.
Where did you get the idea that instead of “better than anyone else” the definition of best was “perfect”?

 

[203Pat]

Andy is back at it. The last 20 years are gone. This is now. That was then.

 

[50-yard-line]

So we should tank for the next Josh Rosen Hard pass.

This might come as a shock to you but the first round is not the only round in the draft that actually takes place.

The 2 best QBs in the game right now are Mahomes and Rodgers, both came out in the lower middle of round 1. Brady or no Brady, it is very possible to find a franchise guy in the middle of the first round, it arguably happens at least as often as that top guy actually turns into a top guy.

I didn't say tank at all. I don't want them to tank. I didn't say they should tank. I don't want them to tank.

Got it?

You're right, it's multiple rounds - would you rather have pick 37 or pick 49?

I hope they use the year to play the best they can AND see what they're really got for players going forward. Game play matters. I'm not surprised to see Meyers taking a step - he showed it before last season, but never got on the field. When you're not competing for a playoff spot, let's see what Gunner can do. Let's get Harry on the field and throw the ball his way 10-14 times a game. Let's get Froholdt in the rotation a bit and see how badly we need to pay Thuney. Get Rohrwhatever on the field and see if he's an NFl kicker.

This is AFTER you see the potential for a playoff run. Sunday night means a lot to this team going forward. if they get toasted by the ratbirds, do they really have a shot at a playoff run? On the other hand, if they win that game, yes, they do.

Even if they lose, I still don't want a "tank." There's a difference between a tank and playing for the future, and not just regarding draft picks. Try to win the games, always, but let's see if these other players can play up to the big moments or not.

Now, maybe their plan is to bring back Jimmy G, for instance. I could see it. Okay, if that's the plan, the best athletic DLs go in the first 10-15 picks. Also, the top WR goes within 15, usually. Also, the higher your pick, the more you can grab for it moving back.

So if the Pats have #5, say, and there's a blue chip QB prospect that another team desperately wants, but the Pats don't, you flip that pick for a lot more high round capital. That's not true once you get past the first dozen picks.

Hence my point: 7-0. 8-8. 9-7 really is tough on a team that needs draft hits.

 

[sb1]

A likely 3rd place finish in the AFC East means there's an excellent chance there's no Chiefs, no Steelers and no Ravens on our schedule next year. An easier schedule will be helpful for us to get back to the playoffs

 

[captain stone]

He has played terribly but I really can't fault him too much. He is a 5th round pick who is being overused and playing out of position due to poor roster management. His ideal spot is a role player run stuffer. He is basically Bryan Cox.

JaWrong wishes he were Brian Cox.

 

[203Pat]

JaWrong wishes he were Brian Cox.

I loved Bryan Cox back in the day. Old school LB, big neck roll, flipping off the fans. Guy was the man.

 

[captain stone]

You called it SYSTEMIC. Losing guys because of the cap, and covid aren’t systemic.
every defense plays worse against better teams. That isn’t being exposed it’s reality. Being the best isn’t diminished because good teams play better against you than bad teams because that happens to the 2nd best, 3rd best, etc etc

STC didn't call the lack of front-7 talent "systemic"...I did...

 

[Ring 6]

I didn't say tank at all. I don't want them to tank. I didn't say they should tank. I don't want them to tank.

Got it?

You're right, it's multiple rounds - would you rather have pick 37 or pick 49?

I hope they use the year to play the best they can AND see what they're really got for players going forward. Game play matters. I'm not surprised to see Meyers taking a step - he showed it before last season, but never got on the field. When you're not competing for a playoff spot, let's see what Gunner can do. Let's get Harry on the field and throw the ball his way 10-14 times a game. Let's get Froholdt in the rotation a bit and see how badly we need to pay Thuney. Get Rohrwhatever on the field and see if he's an NFl kicker.

This is AFTER you see the potential for a playoff run. Sunday night means a lot to this team going forward. if they get toasted by the ratbirds, do they really have a shot at a playoff run? On the other hand, if they win that game, yes, they do.

Even if they lose, I still don't want a "tank." There's a difference between a tank and playing for the future, and not just regarding draft picks. Try to win the games, always, but let's see if these other players can play up to the big moments or not.

Now, maybe their plan is to bring back Jimmy G, for instance. I could see it. Okay, if that's the plan, the best athletic DLs go in the first 10-15 picks. Also, the top WR goes within 15, usually. Also, the higher your pick, the more you can grab for it moving back.

So if the Pats have #5, say, and there's a blue chip QB prospect that another team desperately wants, but the Pats don't, you flip that pick for a lot more high round capital. That's not true once you get past the first dozen picks.

Hence my point: 7-0. 8-8. 9-7 really is tough on a team that needs draft hits.

If this were reality you would see more teams go from 2-14, 3-13 to excellent teams then you see teams build from 7-9,8-8-ish to excellent teams. That really doesnt seem to be the case.

 

[jmt57]

They were the # 1 defense in the NFL last year and won the Sb the year before mostly because of their defense. Systemically they are a top 3 defense. They rank either 1 or 2 in points allowed in the belichick era. (The site to search those numbers isn’t free any more so it could be 1 or 2 right now.)

The Patriots are not a top three defense.

They were at one time, but that is in the past - and has nothing to do with the current team, present or near future.

As of Week 8 in 2019 the Pats D had allowed 61 points, by far the best in the NFL.

NFL Standings As Of Week 8 of 2019 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

NFL Standings As Of Week 8 of 2019

www.pro-football-reference.com

Then in the next eight games the Pats D allowed 164 points (20.5 ppg). Over a full season that would have placed the Pats between Dallas and Tennessee, just outside the top ten. That was due to an easy early season schedule and tougher opponents later, not injuries.

(On an aside, check where the Cowboys are now in regards to the inference about teams not suddenly getting worse.)


Now I am going to beat an already dead horse, with a reality check between the 2019 defense and the 2020 defense.
(Apologies in advance to those that have already seen these facts.)

The defensive offseason losses in free agency (and trades) had been overlooked by many, with TB12 moving on to Tampa dominating the discussion by the media and casual fans.

Defensive Snaps -- % -- Rank -- Player
833 --- 81% --- #3 --- Jamie Collins
832 --- 81% --- #4 --- Kyle Van Noy
736 --- 71% --- #5 --- Dont'a Hightower
669 --- 65% --- #7 --- Duron Harmon
653 --- 63% --- #8 --- Patrick Chung
508 --- 49% --- #11 -- Danny Shelton
272 --- 26% --- #18 -- Shilique Calhoun
210 --- 20% --- #20 -- Elandon Roberts


The hypothesis that the 2020 Patriots are a top defense is a myth.
They are also faced with the issue of dependency on players that are closing in on the end of their NFL careers.

• Devin McCourty: ranks 1st in 2020 defensive snaps; will turn 34 in 2021 training camp.
• Stephon Gilmore: ranks 5th in snaps (despite games missed); will turn 31 in week 2 (plus the contract).
• John Simon: ranks 6th in snaps; will turn 31 next October.
• Jason McCourty: 8th in snaps, and will also be turning 34; unlikely to return.
• Lawrence Guy: 10th in snaps, despite injuries; turns 31 next March.

One also has to consider if the Pats will move on from Deatrich Wise, Byron Cowart and others - all that would need to be replaced with unknown quantities.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

The jets game changed literally nothing in my mind about this team. They played the worst team in the league that has little to no interest in winning and it still took a last second come from behind victory to beat them. Beat the ravens and then I'll raise an eyebrow. The team I saw play the jets is going 5-11, 6-10 at best.

 

[sb1]

Remaining Schedule: Ravens, @Houston, Cardinals, @LAC, @LAR, @Mia, BUF, NYJ

9-7 give us an outside shot to get in. That requires 6-2 to close the season. Anything less and stick a fork in us.
I think we’ll beat the Jets. Buffalo may have the division clinched by week 16 and won’t have anything to play so if that’s the case that will help us. Miami who knows - we beat them already but that is 3 straight road games. Do it again and we have a tiebreaker over them. Houston game is winnable. I think we take one of two on the west coast, preferably the Chargers to get an AFC win. I don’t really like the way we matchup with the Cardinals but it is at home so that helps. An upset tonight will be a gigantic step toward making 9-7 happen.

Not impossible but a lot of things have to go right for us.

Thankfully the schedule next year should be much easier, just like it was in 2001. The team will probably have more talent and more upside. And hopefully we get at least some home crowd.

 

[Simpelton]

Still laughing?