Reason why BB so bad at drafting WRs

[mike_usagisan]

I guess BB just has always felt that the WR position isn't a good place to invest draft capital and he would rather spend it on other positions.

No, he’d rather invest FA dollars on vet WRs or trades, and mostly we’ve had good success there, from the homeruns of Moss and Welker to the singles and doubles of Amendola and others. He just didn’t have any FA money to spend this year and whiffed on FA and trades last year. He’s got money to spend next year and I expect we’ll probably have better talent next season.

 

[Nikolai]

No, he’d rather invest FA dollars on vet WRs or trades, and mostly we’ve had good success there, from the homeruns of Moss and Welker to the singles and doubles of Amendola and others. He just didn’t have any FA money to spend this year and whiffed on FA and trades last year. He’s got money to spend next year and I expect we’ll probably have better talent next season.

Yep. I feel like some people think we're going to still be in cap hell for the next 17 years.

 

[Hyped]

- Thanks @upstater1 ...had no idea we didn't draft that many WR's relative to other NFL teams.

- Yeah, the EP system is the only common factor the last twenty years as well as Brady. I think there's something to be said about the 'system' hindering the learning curve for rookie or FA WR's....as for Randy Moss...he is the 2nd best WR to ever play the game for a reason and I'd call him an outlier. For every Moss we have had...I can name 20 WR's who flamed out here.... it is the system more than talent, IMO.

 

[Brick27]

- Thanks @upstater1 ...had no idea we didn't draft that many WR's relative to other NFL teams.

- Yeah, the EP system is the only common factor the last twenty years as well as Brady. I think there's something to be said about the 'system' hindering the learning curve for rookie or FA WR's....as for Randy Moss...he is the 2nd best WR to ever play the game for a reason and I'd call him an outlier. For every Moss we have had...I can name 20 WR's who flamed out here.... it is the system more than talent, IMO.

If only they didn’t currently have an OC who is only as good as the talent he has. Supposedly good OCs are better than the sum of parts they have to work with. Still waiting on that this year..

 

[upstater1]

Ok. Well I trust your football opinion and judgement. Thanks for checking. The thing is we are counting Pats receivers from 01-04 and 09-12. Take these out and the WR drafts specifically under McDaniels then is what, 0/5 from 05-08 and 2012-now.... ?

Couldn't you do the same for every team? Find a 3 year window of total busts? I just looked at the entire Belichick record. It's not good, but it's also not an outlier. There are actually worse teams, like the Raiders.

 

[upstater1]

- Thanks @upstater1 ...had no idea we didn't draft that many WR's relative to other NFL teams.

- Yeah, the EP system is the only common factor the last twenty years as well as Brady. I think there's something to be said about the 'system' hindering the learning curve for rookie or FA WR's....as for Randy Moss...he is the 2nd best WR to ever play the game for a reason and I'd call him an outlier. For every Moss we have had...I can name 20 WR's who flamed out here.... it is the system more than talent, IMO.

The thing about WRs who flame out here is that they don't go on to do anything anywhere else in the NFL either. In fact, we've had several guys who caught 50+ here who moved on and flamed out elsewhere. It's just like our draft busts. They move on to other teams and they do nothing.

 

[Tony2046]

Because we don't select WRs in the draft. We select half as many as other teams.

Pick a team, and I'll do the comparison. Off the top of my head, the Bears (not exactly an offensive juggernaut): 23 WRs drafted during the Belichick era. The Patriots? 9.

We just don't expend resources drafting WRs.

Of those 9 we've chosen, only 4 showed ability to play (two were top WRs in the league, one was a good #2, and one had a career ending injury [Edelman, Branch, Givens, Mitchell]).

Then you look at Bears:

Good picks: Marty Booker, Alshon Jeffrey

Middling picks, backups: Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, Bernard Berrian

Young players, the book is not yet written on them: Anthony Miller, Darnell Mooney

Wasted Picks: Sulecio Sanford, D'Wayne Bates, Frank Murphy, Desmond White, David Terrell, John Capel, Jamin Elliott, Aerise Currie, Mark Bradley, Marcus Monk, Earl Bennett, Derek Kinder, John Knox, Joaquin Iglesias, Marquess Wilson, Kevin White, Dan Braverman, Javon Wims, Riley Ridley

23 picks: 2 receivers who are top WRs in the league, 3 backup or #2 types, 19 wasted picks. 2 guys who are young.

If Belichick had spent as many picks as the Bears have, I suspect he would have drafted at least 4 more solid WRs, if not more.

I'll have to go back and check but I believe the Pats have drafted 17 WRs since 2000 but many were in the later rounds using less draft capital.

 

[1960Pats]

Same system got them to 9 Super Bowls in twenty years. But that's with Brady at QB so I don't know.

Anyway I expected growing pains from the next QB so I'm not giving up on BB, Cam or Stidham especially during a weird ass Covid season.

I have more faith in Stidham. He's young and can still learn.

 

[Triumph]

18 picks for the Steelers over the same period. They've had a lot of busts. They've had 8 wins, 10 busts. And outside of Antonio Brown (the only superstar on the Steelers and Patriots over this period), their wins (of the 8 WRs) have been no better than Edelman or Deion Branch. Not to mention the fact that the Steelers are widely considered the best WR drafters in the entire NFL.

I actually went through this team by team and saw that the Patriots are not an outlier. They just don't draft receivers.

One of the few that is like the Patriots is the Chargers. They don't draft them either.

This is not accurate and I have already debunked it in the other thread.

Since 2009.

We can go back to 2000 if you wish, but for every Branch and Givens the Steelers have Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward and Plaxico Burress. Youre not going to gain an inch of ground arguing that point.

Steelers drafted 12 WRs and I am not counting Claypool who looks like another Stud and dont look now, but Johnson is starting to blow up. Johnson was a 3rd round pick in Harrys draft. His rookie stats were 680 yards and 5 TDs with musical chair QBs.

1 Johnson 3rd
2 Washington 2nd
3 Ju Ju Smith 2nd
4 Ayers 7th
5 Coates 3rd
6 Bryant 4th
7 J Brown 6th
8 Wheaton 3rd
9 Clemons 7th
10 Sanders 3rd
11 A Brown 6th
12 Wallace 3rd

Wheaton and Bryant were considered misses with the Steelers. They would be successful picks in NE.

Patriots drafted 10 WRs
1 Harry 1st
2 Berrios 6th
3 Mitchell 4th
4 Lucien 7th
5 Gallon 7th
6 Dobson 2nd
7 Boyce 4th
8 Ebert 7th
9 Price 3rd
10 Tate 3rd

The Steelers have 2 more drafts picks devoted to WRs. Mitchell was injury prone at Georgia and lasted 1 season in the NFL. Edelman was a QB at Kent State and needed to be developed into a WR. This discussion is about drafting a WR in the NCAA and having him produce in the NFL preferably in his rookie season like AJ Brown or Terry McLaurin. Other teams are finding WR talent in the same drafts where the Patriots just waste recourses.

The Pats have drafted ZERO Elite WRs since 2009. If youre an NFL GM looking for a WR and drafting after the Patriots, youre sitting in the catbird seat.

 

[Toofy]

The more I think about it.. could it be the system that is making Bill the GM as well as the quarterbacks and receivers look bad. The system is probably designed only for veterans and not for rookies . Too much complication . Might work if we had a quarterback in our system for more than 4 years.. but with so many moving parts maybe it's time to strip out the playbook for something more simpler and effective.

 

[Ring 6]

Because we don't select WRs in the draft. We select half as many as other teams.

Pick a team, and I'll do the comparison. Off the top of my head, the Bears (not exactly an offensive juggernaut): 23 WRs drafted during the Belichick era. The Patriots? 9.

We just don't expend resources drafting WRs.

Of those 9 we've chosen, only 4 showed ability to play (two were top WRs in the league, one was a good #2, and one had a career ending injury [Edelman, Branch, Givens, Mitchell]).

Then you look at Bears:

Good picks: Marty Booker, Alshon Jeffrey

Middling picks, backups: Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, Bernard Berrian

Young players, the book is not yet written on them: Anthony Miller, Darnell Mooney

Wasted Picks: Sulecio Sanford, D'Wayne Bates, Frank Murphy, Desmond White, David Terrell, John Capel, Jamin Elliott, Aerise Currie, Mark Bradley, Marcus Monk, Earl Bennett, Derek Kinder, John Knox, Joaquin Iglesias, Marquess Wilson, Kevin White, Dan Braverman, Javon Wims, Riley Ridley

23 picks: 2 receivers who are top WRs in the league, 3 backup or #2 types, 19 wasted picks. 2 guys who are young.

If Belichick had spent as many picks as the Bears have, I suspect he would have drafted at least 4 more solid WRs, if not more.

Thank you. The disinformation on this topic is large.

 

[bigballas]

Because we don't select WRs in the draft. We select half as many as other teams.

Pick a team, and I'll do the comparison. Off the top of my head, the Bears (not exactly an offensive juggernaut): 23 WRs drafted during the Belichick era. The Patriots? 9.

We just don't expend resources drafting WRs.

Of those 9 we've chosen, only 4 showed ability to play (two were top WRs in the league, one was a good #2, and one had a career ending injury [Edelman, Branch, Givens, Mitchell]).

Then you look at Bears:

Good picks: Marty Booker, Alshon Jeffrey

Middling picks, backups: Justin Gage, Bobby Wade, Bernard Berrian

Young players, the book is not yet written on them: Anthony Miller, Darnell Mooney

Wasted Picks: Sulecio Sanford, D'Wayne Bates, Frank Murphy, Desmond White, David Terrell, John Capel, Jamin Elliott, Aerise Currie, Mark Bradley, Marcus Monk, Earl Bennett, Derek Kinder, John Knox, Joaquin Iglesias, Marquess Wilson, Kevin White, Dan Braverman, Javon Wims, Riley Ridley

23 picks: 2 receivers who are top WRs in the league, 3 backup or #2 types, 19 wasted picks. 2 guys who are young.

If Belichick had spent as many picks as the Bears have, I suspect he would have drafted at least 4 more solid WRs, if not more.

"9"

2019​	1​	N'Keal Harry​
2018​	6​	Braxton Berrios​
2016​	4​	Malcolm Mitchell​
2016​	7​	Devin Lucien​
2014​	7​	Jeremy Gallon​
2013​	2​	Aaron Dobson​
2013​	4​	Josh Boyce​
2012​	7​	Jeremy Ebert​
2010​	3​	Taylor Price​
2009​	3​	Brandon Tate​
2009​	7​	Julian Edelman​
2008​	5​	Matthew Slater​
2006​	2​	Chad Jackson​
2004​	5​	P.K. Sam​
2003​	2​	Bethel Johnson​
2002​	2​	Deion Branch​
2002​	7​	David Givens​

take out Slater i guess.

and you consider Earl Bennett a miss but Malcolm Mitchell "ability". earl bennet had 2 years producing more than mithcell and actually had a nfl "career" and two more that's comparable to Mitchell best year. Even Marquess Wilson produced more than Mithcell. Mitchell is a bum. Earl Bennet's equivalent is David Givens

 

[lancerman]

The correct question should be, why does BB draft so few wide receivers. Every time this is brought up people post comparisons of other teams, usually the Steelers, but the bears work too obviously. The other teams always have spent much greater draft capital on the wide receiver position then the Patriots have. Every draft pick is a crap shoot, it always has seemed to me that the WR position is more of a crap shoot then any other position. I guess BB just has always felt that the WR position isn't a good place to invest draft capital and he would rather spend it on other positions.

It’s not frequency

This is not accurate and I have already debunked it in the other thread.

Since 2009.

We can go back to 2000 if you wish, but for every Branch and Givens the Steelers have Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward and Plaxico Burress. Youre not going to gain an inch of ground arguing that point.

Steelers drafted 12 WRs and I am not counting Claypool who looks like another Stud and dont look now, but Johnson is starting to blow up. Johnson was a 3rd round pick in Harrys draft. His rookie stats were 680 yards and 5 TDs with musical chair QBs.

1 Johnson 3rd
2 Washington 2nd
3 Ju Ju Smith 2nd
4 Ayers 7th
5 Coates 3rd
6 Bryant 4th
7 J Brown 6th
8 Wheaton 3rd
9 Clemons 7th
10 Sanders 3rd
11 A Brown 6th
12 Wallace 3rd

Wheaton and Bryant were considered misses with the Steelers. They would be successful picks in NE.

Patriots drafted 10 WRs
1 Harry 1st
2 Berrios 6th
3 Mitchell 4th
4 Lucien 7th
5 Gallon 7th
6 Dobson 2nd
7 Boyce 4th
8 Ebert 7th
9 Price 3rd
10 Tate 3rd

The Steelers have 2 more drafts picks devoted to WRs. Mitchell was injury prone at Georgia and lasted 1 season in the NFL. Edelman was a QB at Kent State and needed to be developed into a WR. This discussion is about drafting a WR in the NCAA and having him produce in the NFL preferably in his rookie season like AJ Brown or Terry McLaurin. Other teams are finding WR talent in the same drafts where the Patriots just waste recourses.

The Pats have drafted ZERO Elite WRs since 2009. If youre an NFL GM looking for a WR and drafting after the Patriots, youre sitting in the catbird seat.

Exactly. The Steelers just hit more. To the point where they’ve been able to trade top talent WR’s before the end of their rookie contract and get assets for them because they were so stacked there.

It’s also misleading when Givens has only had 3 years here that were productive and Edelman did not become a contributor until after his rookie contract. So even our best success was not like a standard case of drafting a stud and getting great production on a rookie contract on the cheap.

Branch is the only one who fits that mold.

Also even last draft we had a huge WR run literally right in front of us and didn’t bother trading up. Pretty much every one but Reager who got injured look like hits

 

[DropKickFlutie]

"9"

2019​	1​	N'Keal Harry​
2018​	6​	Braxton Berrios​
2016​	4​	Malcolm Mitchell​
2016​	7​	Devin Lucien​
2014​	7​	Jeremy Gallon​
2013​	2​	Aaron Dobson​
2013​	4​	Josh Boyce​
2012​	7​	Jeremy Ebert​
2010​	3​	Taylor Price​
2009​	3​	Brandon Tate​
2009​	7​	Julian Edelman​
2008​	5​	Matthew Slater​
2006​	2​	Chad Jackson​
2004​	5​	P.K. Sam​
2003​	2​	Bethel Johnson​
2002​	2​	Deion Branch​
2002​	7​	David Givens​

take out Slater i guess.

and you consider Earl Bennett a miss but Malcolm Mitchell "ability". earl bennet had 2 years producing more than mithcell and actually had a nfl "career" and two more that's comparable to Mitchell best year. Even Marquess Wilson produced more than Mithcell. Mitchell is a bum. Earl Bennet's equivalent is David Givens

That's 17 picks. I'm disappointed if upstater was twisting facts....

.

 

[RIpats88]

The thing about WRs who flame out here is that they don't go on to do anything anywhere else in the NFL either. In fact, we've had several guys who caught 50+ here who moved on and flamed out elsewhere. It's just like our draft busts. They move on to other teams and they do nothing.

pretty much this. It shows its not the system but whomever is doing the talent evaluation. The guys New England drafts are barely NFL wide receivers.

the fact that last year was the Richest Wide receiver draft in years and the patriots seemingly picked the one guy who cant play is telling. I dont care if only 3 wide receivers have won Super bowl MVP. you still need talent in an NFL offense. you cant have damien Byrd as your #1 receiver and expect to win

 

[DropKickFlutie]

pretty much this. It shows its not the system but whomever is doing the talent evaluation. The guys New England drafts are barely NFL wide receivers.

the fact that last year was the Richest Wide receiver draft in years and the patriots seemingly picked the one guy who cant play is telling. I dont care if only 3 wide receivers have won Super bowl MVP. you still need talent in an NFL offense. you cant have damien Byrd as your #1 receiver and expect to win

Get rid of whatever crappy wide receiver scouting system McDaniels installed in 2004 and go back to Bill and his dad's WR scouting methods....

 

[RIpats88]

Get rid of whatever crappy wide receiver scouting system McDaniels installed in 2004 and go back to Bill and his dad's WR scouting methods....

whatever method they are using isnt working. most of bills successful wide receivers in the past few years have all been free agent pickups or trades. Moss, welker, lafell, hogan, amendola, lloyd, cooks. He might just have to use the cap/draft picks to get a guy since we cant seemingly draft one.

while some of those guys lloyd/cooks may not have worked out more than a year and had flaws they all were better than what we have right now....

and are better than what brady had last year..

 

[Jimke]

The Patriots need to add someone to their scouting department who is
an expert on drafting wide receivers. They have to pirate someone from
another team like Pittsburgh. Otherwise, they have to pay the going rate
for a good veteran like other teams do.

 

[borg]

It's very clear that the reason why our WRs suck is because our offense is too complicated.

So Harry's horrible footwork, glacial acceleration, and inability to separate are all irrelevant in your narrative?

 

[DaBruinz]

So Harry's horrible footwork, glacial acceleration, and inability to separate are all irrelevant in your narrative?

Yep.. Such a horrible inability to separate that he was in the top 30 for receivers in the league on getting separation.