OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[upstater1]

Brady was injured in 2019, in addition to playing with scab-like players after Edelman and White. This was actually reported and not just speculation:

Report: Tom Brady Dealing With 'Tennis Elbow'

Though Brady is not on the injury report this week, a detail about his ailment came out on Saturday, when NFL Network's Mike Giardi reported that Brady is dealing with "essentially a tennis elbow."

boston.cbslocal.com

The guy played at the highest level for almost 20 years, had a down season (with both the injury and scab-like players), proclaimed to everyone who would listen that he wanted to play at least three more years and that he could physically do it.

Sure, the Patriots would be better off right now. Oh, I'm sorry...I guess I'm not well versed in interpreting the Patriots these days. I thought I just read that for the first time in 18 years, they are below .500 this late in the season. I keep reading about how awesome they are despite getting blown out in Kansas City and then losing to one of the worst teams in the NFL at home. But yeah...I'm sure they wouldn't be any better off with Tom Brady. It's all just a coincidence.

Don't forget: Marshall Newhouse.

 

[lancerman]

I didn't say the Patriots would have a superior drafting to the Steelers if only we drafted more.

Nowhere did I say that.

But have the last word because I know now that you're the type to completely take everything I say out of context in order to win an internet argument.

Go ahead, I'm done with this.

Okay well since you are offering the last word I will take it. Your argument is meaningless and it wasn’t even worth posting and you are upset that everyone is calling it out.

Your hit rate comparison only works because you counted a guy who played one year and got 401 yards as a hit and another guy who played 5 years but only had 3 decent seasons as a hit..... neither of them would be viewed as hits with what the Steelers have had at WR. By your logic, Claypool is basically 140 yards away from being a hit already and Johnson is as well.

Beyond that, it also has no value because the Steelers hits all end up being higher end guys who have been successful on an elite level.

The Steelers more consistently hit and they are of higher quality, in fact you have to ignore guys that you would be calling hits on the Patriots on the Steelers to even have the comparison.

It means nothing

 

[farn]

Actually yeah. Culture is a huge consideration for many job changes. I know a ton of people that went to high end business schools, got a job at the big 5, hated how they were treated there, knew that they would make bank if they stuck it out five years, and ultimately said “screw it” because they found a place they felt more valued and happier. Many. It’s why those companies have massive turnovers rates despite everyone knowing the windfall if you stick it out.

Brady is the most successful player ever. He knew what he had in NE with the best coach he’s ever going to play for and the most conducive environment to winning. Now that his legacy is secure he decided he’d rather finish his career somewhere he could just play football and feel like a partner in the team process and the most successful TE ran to join him after getting burned out here.

You can choose not to get it, but the fact that we are one of the few teams that had an all time great QB leave without a real replacement (Rodgers/Luck/Young) or before he was washed.... that says something.

I think most MVP QBs are actually followed by lesser QBs. You did mention a few bright spots.

Marino, Elway, Kelly, Aikman... I think most teams “don’t have a Young” to replace the HoFer.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Don't forget: Marshall Newhouse.

I tried to, thanks. He ruined the offensive line last year.

 

[sb1]

Brady was injured in 2019, in addition to playing with scab-like players after Edelman and White. This was actually reported and not just speculation:

Report: Tom Brady Dealing With 'Tennis Elbow'

Though Brady is not on the injury report this week, a detail about his ailment came out on Saturday, when NFL Network's Mike Giardi reported that Brady is dealing with "essentially a tennis elbow."

boston.cbslocal.com

The guy played at the highest level for almost 20 years, had a down season (with both the injury and scab-like players), proclaimed to everyone who would listen that he wanted to play at least three more years and that he could physically do it.

Sure, the Patriots would be better off right now. Oh, I'm sorry...I guess I'm not well versed in interpreting the Patriots these days. I thought I just read that for the first time in 18 years, they are below .500 this late in the season. I keep reading about how awesome they are despite getting blown out in Kansas City and then losing to one of the worst teams in the NFL at home. But yeah...I'm sure they wouldn't be any better off with Tom Brady. It's all just a coincidence.

See this is what I keep saying to the hand wringers. The "scab-like" players that he struggled with in 2019 are still here. No new weapons. And an offense that was a complete failure in 2019 before it was reworked for our new QB. With an unhappy Brady still here why should anyone think things would be any different than they were in 2019? Brady has had injuries before and he's played a lot better than he did a year ago. So other than wishful thinking why on earth would this year be different?

I'm not even convinced they still wouldn't be under .500 now all things being equal. We just saw what happened in the last 3 weeks where the guy at the QB position got sick. Doubt there are any TB12 products that could have stopped that.

His ceiling in Tampa was always much higher than it would have been if Bill backed up the brinks truck to keep him here. Fact. Which of course might have not even been enough as he wanted out. It is what it is.

.

 

[lancerman]

I think most MVP QBs are actually followed by lesser QBs. You did mention a few bright spots.

Marino, Elway, Kelly, Aikman... I think most teams “don’t have a Young” to replace the HoFer.

Marino, Elway, Aikman, Kelly all retired with the team they spent their career with because they didn’t have a suitable replacement.

Brady is like the only one a team let walk without a suitable replacement before he was washed up.

He is the anomaly here and his grievance was with the respect he felt.

 

[amfootball]

Marino, Elway, Aikman, Kelly all retired with the team they spent their career with because they didn’t have a suitable replacement.

Brady is like the only one a team let walk without a suitable replacement before he was washed up.

He is the anomaly here and his grievance was with the respect he felt.

It is a great point but man, Brady is 43. No QB has ever played at this level this long. It is still head scratching that Bill would just let him walk but part of me wonders if Bill knew they were in a rebuild phase and told Brady to find a new team to compete. I am starting to believe this only because the split was very amicable and even Brady's dad praised Belichick after Tom signed with Tampa.

 

[sb1]

I think most MVP QBs are actually followed by lesser QBs. You did mention a few bright spots.

Marino, Elway, Kelly, Aikman... I think most teams “don’t have a Young” to replace the HoFer.

Yeah. Montana-Young and Favre-Rodgers and the like are way more the exception than the norm.

I'd still like to think Stid is ultimately the heir to Brady but we haven't seen anything from him yet to judge one way or the other.

 

[203Pat]

I like how the anti-Brady crowd went from "It's Brady's fault that the supporting cast wasn't great! He froze them out!" and now that it is clear that the supporting cast is terrible it's "Oh well why would anyone think that Brady would do any better!". Meanwhile the offense looks even worse than it did last year and Brady is looking like Brady down in Tampa.

 

[1960Pats]

Here's some numbers to think about.

Bradys winning % in the regular season without Bill is .667.
Bill's winning % in the regular season without Brady is .476.
Note that Brady's numbers are at age 43 with a worse HC.

Brady's winning % with the Pats in 2019 was .775.
Cam's winning % with the Pats in 2020 is .400.
Note that the 2019 Pats were a weaker team.

Bradys playoff winning % without Bill is TBD, but overall he's .732
Bill's playoff winning % without Brady is .500

Anyone who doesn't think the Pats would be better with Brady are kidding themselves. Each week it gets more and more difficult to see him playing in another uniform. And now Gronk is rounding into shape. I think I'm going to be sick.

 

[lancerman]

It is a great point but man, Brady is 43. No QB has ever played at this level this long. It is still head scratching that Bill would just let him walk but part of me wonders if Bill knew they were in a rebuild phase and told Brady to find a new team to compete. I am starting to believe this only because the split was very amicable and even Brady's dad praised Belichick after Tom signed with Tampa.

Yeah I’m not giving them credit for that. There’s nothing to indicate it was coordinated. They were willing to go year to year. He wanted two as a commitment to prove they valued him. They didn’t and Brady told Kraft he was done.

I 100% believe that they just didn’t think Brady would go through with leaving until after the season ended and he was a free agent and they had zero say in the matter.

 

[farn]

I like how the anti-Brady crowd went from "It's Brady's fault that the supporting cast wasn't great! He froze them out!" and now that it is clear that the supporting cast is terrible it's "Oh well why would anyone think that Brady would do any better!". Meanwhile the offense looks even worse than it did last year and Brady is looking like Brady down in Tampa.

I’m not anti-Brady. I love me some Brady. Winning SBs is amazing !

I do think Brady + 2020 NeP don’t win the SuperBowl in FEB. I think you can both love some Brady AND think he’s unable to save the 2020 version of this team.

 

[farn]

Here's some numbers to think about.

Bradys winning % in the regular season without Bill is .667.
Bill's winning % in the regular season without Brady is .476.
Note that Brady's numbers are at age 43 with a worse HC.

Brady's winning % with the Pats in 2019 was .775.
Cam's winning % with the Pats in 2020 is .400.
Note that the 2019 Pats were a weaker team.

Bradys playoff winning % without Bill is TBD, but overall he's .732
Bill's playoff winning % without Brady is .500

Anyone who doesn't think the Pats would be better with Brady are kidding themselves. Each week it gets more and more difficult to see him playing in another uniform. And now Gronk is rounding into shape. I think I'm going to be sick.

“Better”, sure. I can’t talk for the others, but I’m saying “who cares if we are better if it still means no SB ?” I think it had come time to move on. Rebuilding is necessary for NE and Brady needn’t stick around for that. He can keep chasing the championship.

 

[Brewskies]

Perfect analogy. Brady-fomer Pats quarterback. Garoppolo-former Pats quarterback. Pats fans should be just as eager to want to root for one as the other. I mean the handful of games Jimmy started for us is obviously equal to the 20 years Brady did. You've reduced The Greatest of all time to be similar to a jag. No wonder the objective sb1 liked your post.

You are a classless person. To suggest that Jimmy G. doesn't deserve his thread or that I can't have an opinion as a 60-year-old Pats fan. For me, Thank you Brady, for what you did while with the Pats. Bye Bye, Brady, you are gone by your choice, Bye Bye. BTW I did give credit to Brady in the Tampa Bay thread on the Pat's Forum for yesterday's performance. He remembered all the downs, didn't throw an interception and his throws were on target, an excellent day for him, one of his best.

 

[203Pat]

Here's some numbers to think about.

Bradys winning % in the regular season without Bill is .667.
Bill's winning % in the regular season without Brady is .476.
Note that Brady's numbers are at age 43 with a worse HC.

Brady's winning % with the Pats in 2019 was .775.
Cam's winning % with the Pats in 2020 is .400.
Note that the 2019 Pats were a weaker team.

Bradys playoff winning % without Bill is TBD, but overall he's .732
Bill's playoff winning % without Brady is .500

Anyone who doesn't think the Pats would be better with Brady are kidding themselves. Each week it gets more and more difficult to see him playing in another uniform. And now Gronk is rounding into shape. I think I'm going to be sick.

I feel like I need to preface this with almost every post I make in this thread, I think Bill is an excellent coach and the greatest coach of all time, with that being said I think Brady covered up a lot of things over the years that made Bill look good. Brady covered up some really really bad drafting in the last few years and even in Brady's "horrible terrible" 2019 season he still put up solid numbers while injured and having a turnstile protect his blindside half the year. I also think that if Brady is put in the same situation as Cam yesterday he leads them down to a game winning TD. That isn't really a knock against Cam I just think Brady handles the blitz better than what I have seen from Cam so far. In my imaginary hypothetical we win the game yesterday, the sky isn't falling, and no one is questioning why Bill didn't challenge that James White first down that wasn't.

 

[sb1]

I’m not anti-Brady. I love me some Brady. Winning SBs is amazing !

I do think Brady + 2020 NeP don’t win the SuperBowl in FEB. I think you can both love some Brady AND think he’s unable to save the 2020 version of this team.

Nah you're being "anti-Brady". I can't believe that meanie Bill kicked Brady off the team, the 43 year old QB that would all by himself turn this team into a 14-2 juggernaut and Super Bowl lock. LOL

 

[amfootball]

I feel like I need to preface this with almost every post I make in this thread, I think Bill is an excellent coach and the greatest coach of all time, with that being said I think Brady covered up a lot of things over the years that made Bill look good. Brady covered up some really really bad drafting in the last few years and even in Brady's "horrible terrible" 2019 season he still put up solid numbers while injured and having a turnstile protect his blindside half the year. I also think that if Brady is put in the same situation as Cam yesterday he leads them down to a game winning TD. That isn't really a knock against Cam I just think Brady handles the blitz better than what I have seen from Cam so far. In my imaginary hypothetical we win the game yesterday, the sky isn't falling, and no one is questioning why Bill didn't challenge that James White first down that wasn't.

If Brady was playing yesterday, the Broncos don't blitz like that.

 

[upstater1]

I’m not anti-Brady. I love me some Brady. Winning SBs is amazing !

I do think Brady + 2020 NeP don’t win the SuperBowl in FEB. I think you can both love some Brady AND think he’s unable to save the 2020 version of this team.

I can't get totally on board with this. With the current offensive line and 1 good WR, I think this team could compete with Brady.

 

[lancerman]

I’m not anti-Brady. I love me some Brady. Winning SBs is amazing !

I do think Brady + 2020 NeP don’t win the SuperBowl in FEB. I think you can both love some Brady AND think he’s unable to save the 2020 version of this team.

The problem is you could make that argument about any QB in the league. Clearly the problem goes beyond that position and that’s not a good argument because by that logic we could say “well we shouldn’t even try to keep a QB because nobody could win here” which is a preposterous stance.

So it comes down to.... we let Brady go for nothing

 

[203Pat]

I’m not anti-Brady. I love me some Brady. Winning SBs is amazing !

I do think Brady + 2020 NeP don’t win the SuperBowl in FEB. I think you can both love some Brady AND think he’s unable to save the 2020 version of this team.

I apologize if I missed it but if we’re discussing whether Brady could win a super bowl with this current team then I completely agree. I think Brady might manage to pull out a 10-6 or 11-5 season but as far as winning it all I think it would end up looking more like last years postseason as opposed to years prior.