OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[JMC00]

4th time Brady has had a lead of 10 or more points at the end of the 1st quarter and lost

Other games

@Denver '09
@Buffalo '11 (4 INT game)
@Baltimore '12 (replacement ref f**kery).

 

[sb1]

4th time Brady has had a lead of 10 or more points after the 1st quarter and lost

Other games

@Denver '09

Was that the one with Josh clownish fist pumping after the game? That annoyed me. Like he was rubbing it in.

 

[JMC00]

Was that the one with Josh clownish fist pumping after the game? That annoyed me. Like he was rubbing it in.

Yep. 11 years ago to the day tomorrow

 

[Triumph]

New England Patriots at Denver Broncos - October 28th, 2001 | Pro-Football-Reference.com

3 ints in 4th quarter in 2001.

I was at that game.

 

[Triumph]

This is what I saw too. He was able to move the offense and played a lot better than his numbers suggested. I can't imagine a more difficult way to get thrust into your first real non mop up playing time. Covid, no practice, travel and playing the same day, coming in behind, etc.

Hoyer did not have things any easier.

 

[PatsBoy12]

 

[BelizePats]

Hoyer did not have things any easier.

I agree. But his decision making was truly dreadful. We know what Hoyer is. We can't say that about Stid yet. I just hope Cam is back.

 

[Triumph]

I agree. But his decision making was truly dreadful. We know what Hoyer is. We can't say that about Stid yet. I just hope Cam is back.

Hoyers 2 mental errors can be easily rectified.

Stidhams INT throwing who knows.

 

[borg]

Hoyers 2 mental errors can be easily rectified.

One would think that after the 11 year vet's first massive mental error he would not repeat the same error again............... the very next quarter.
Does rectification for old dogs only occur post game?

Given his 4+ year losing streak (0-12), does anything else need to be rectified besides mental errors?

 

[BelizePats]

Hoyers 2 mental errors can be easily rectified.

Stidhams INT throwing who knows.

This is confirmation bias.
As Borg mentions in his post that follows yours, an 11 year vet made a horrific game changing mental error at the end of the first half and then proceeded to make the exact same mistake in the third quarter. So egregious were these mental errors that Bill benched him after the second one and put in the kid.

 

[amfootball]

.........................................................................

Watched that drive again, looks like the checkdown was open on 3rd down. Should have thrown it there although he had gronk with a better throw on that down? Ah well. It happens.

The problem is Tampa had no timeouts. He threw short on second down and the clock ran. He had to try to push the ball to get in FG range in time. Even on the 4th and 5 if he throws short to the RB then the clock runs and they are around mid-field with probably less than 20 seconds after he clocks it. It was going to be a tough comeback no matter what especially given how well the Bears D was playing in the fourth quarter.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Hoyer did not have things any easier.

he did imo. Our d gave up 6 points in the first half so hoyer had every opportunity to be playing ahead, tied, or right behind. Everytime stidham touched the ball he had a double digit deficit, much tougher situation that is more likely to lead to poor throws.

 

[Wheelman]

The problem is Tampa had no timeouts. He threw short on second down and the clock ran. He had to try to push the ball to get in FG range in time. Even on the 4th and 5 if he throws short to the RB then the clock runs and they are around mid-field with probably less than 20 seconds after he clocks it. It was going to be a tough comeback no matter what especially given how well the Bears D was playing in the fourth quarter.

There was a lot more open space to run after throwing the checkdown on the 3rd and 5 though.

 

[amfootball]

I think that's what we're getting. He is 3-2, which is respectable but not overwhelming, and he is having a season which is respectable but not overwhelming.

I tell ya this: After last night, I think he misses having a well coached team. Those Bucs are ugly.

Given there was no off-season or preseason, I would call the Bucs at 3-2 with two tough road losses, one on the short week with a ton of injuries, better than respectable. Brady has also been much better than respectable. He is playing just a tick below the elites - Rodgers, Wilson, Allen.

The Tampa coaching as with every team looks sub par compared to the Patriots who are head and shoulders about every team. That being said, Brady may miss the coaching/discipline but he sure as heck does not miss the Pats offense. He already has 12 TDs this year is on pace to throw somewhere between 35-40. He told Troy Aikman prior to the game that it meant a lot to him (I believe his exacts words were that it moved the needle) to win NFC player of the week at age 43. I doubt any QB ever matches that. It was always going to be somewhat of a long shot for the Bucs to be true super bowl contenders in year 1 especially with Covid and no preseason but Brady has shut up all the naysayers that said he was washed last year. He is playing his best ball IMO since 2017.

 

[lancerman]

I've said this before but I think when you're talking about the two "best" at what they do of all time, it's going to be difficult for them to have that success without the other. Look at us the other night, if we had Tom against the Chiefs, I think nobody would argue that we win that game. Then again, look at last night, if the Bucs had Bill coaching them, there is no doubt that the Bucs are winning that game. All I am saying is they made such a great duo together that I think they both need each other to get to that "promised land".

Hoping I'm wrong with Cam though lol

Yeah people don’t really think of it the right way. The advantage to having Brady and Belichick is that they filled in gaps for each other. Brady got a team that always had a great game plan and could be counted on to know their assignment, that also limited mistakes, and could take the burden off Brady with dependable defense and special teams. Belichick got an X factor that could make dynamic plays, rally the team, and make the big comebacks and ice games that we maybe should have fallen short in.

 

[Bill Lee]

The problem is Tampa had no timeouts. He threw short on second down and the clock ran. He had to try to push the ball to get in FG range in time. Even on the 4th and 5 if he throws short to the RB then the clock runs and they are around mid-field with probably less than 20 seconds after he clocks it. It was going to be a tough comeback no matter what especially given how well the Bears D was playing in the fourth quarter.

I think the second to the last possession is where they set themselves up to lose the game:

Tampa had the lead at this point, all they needed to do was chew up a bit more than 2 minutes of clock time and they would have won.

Instead, three and out, no points, only took 0:27 off the clock.

Their last possession wasn't much better:

Only needed a FG to win, TB12 somehow lost track of downs so he didn't go for a first, turned it over on downs with time left on the clock.

Given there was no off-season or preseason, I would call the Bucs at 3-2 with two tough road losses, one on the short week with a ton of injuries, better than respectable. Brady has also been much better than respectable. He is playing just a tick below the elites - Rodgers, Wilson, Allen.

The Tampa coaching as with every team looks sub par compared to the Patriots who are head and shoulders about every team. That being said, Brady may miss the coaching/discipline but he sure as heck does not miss the Pats offense. He already has 12 TDs this year is on pace to throw somewhere between 35-40. He told Troy Aikman prior to the game that it meant a lot to him (I believe his exacts words were that it moved the needle) to win NFC player of the week at age 43. I doubt any QB ever matches that. It was always going to be somewhat of a long shot for the Bucs to be true super bowl contenders in year 1 especially with Covid and no preseason but Brady has shut up all the naysayers that said he was washed last year. He is playing his best ball IMO since 2017.

TB12 misses his weapons from years past on New England's offense, the ones that play on the offensive line. Turns out that wide outs and TEs are kinda brittle, having a good offensive line that can protect the QB and reduce his workload by creating a strong running game is quite valuable.

I think TB12 has played well, but I also think some of his ugly side is showing itself and is going to have an impact on the younger players on his team. Forgetting the down count is an unfortunate accident. I'm still not sure how that happened.

 

[Guts]

I think the second to the last possession is where they set themselves up to lose the game:

Tampa had the lead at this point, all they needed to do was chew up a bit more than 2 minutes of clock time and they would have won.

Instead, three and out, no points, only took 0:27 off the clock.

Their last possession wasn't much better:

Only needed a FG to win, TB12 somehow lost track of downs so he didn't go for a first, turned it over on downs with time left on the clock.

TB12 misses his weapons from years past on New England's offense, the ones that play on the offensive line. Turns out that wide outs and TEs are kinda brittle, having a good offensive line that can protect the QB and reduce his workload by creating a strong running game is quite valuable.

I think TB12 has played well, but I also think some of his ugly side is showing itself and is going to have an impact on the younger players on his team. Forgetting the down count is an unfortunate accident. I'm still not sure how that happened.

Love this post. Fair and balanced TB has played well, but there's definitely stuff he needs to improve on.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

"Johnny Foxboro would not forget what down it is."
That's all Tommy Boy would have heard from BB the next day. Tom earned the criticism.
Tom's very public major gaffe puts him in a tough position to criticize the mental errors of his team mates.

 

[Kasmir]

Hoyers 2 mental errors can be easily rectified.

Stidhams INT throwing who knows.

Stidham's didn't throw many INTs in college (48:13 TD:INT) or in preseason last year (4:1 TD:INT). Most likely what's happening now is that he hasn't adjusted to NFL game speed yet, a common problem with young QB's seeing their first real game action, especially "gunslinger" types with strong accurate arms like Stidham who tend to have too much confidence in their ability to force a completion.

Which is not to say Stidham won't have problems: at Auburn, he tended to panic and scramble too soon under pressure and take sacks including strip sacks. My concern about him is whether he can retain his composure under blitzes and other pressure.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yep, sacks come in all shapes and sizes. Is their some way to categorize them?
The only sack that a QB has no control over is when defenders come in untouched. We saw a few of those in last night's game.
Coverage sacks shouldn't happen because the QB has time to get rid of the ball.
The same goes when the rush is a little delayed.
Sacks can also happen when QB's try to get away or move in the pocket but get caught. It could be because of the coverage or the QB's inability to recognize the play.
Then there's the sack and strip sack that happen because the QB has no idea there's a rush about to reach him. I call that one a Bledsoe but it may be renamed a Trubisky.
Looking back on it now, one of the best things about Brady was how well he avoided sacks and moved in the pocket for such a slow runner.

I'm pretty sure PFF will look at each one and make a determination of who it's on ... The OL or QB and grade them accordingly but I could be off on that. Not sure if anyone else separates and sorts them out? I'm a little foggy rn.

I'd venture to say most are on the QB, 70-75%? Like you mentioned you'll have guys like Miller, Ware and Watt who can just get to a QB in under 2.5 seconds, untouched or w/e. Feel like nowadays you can tell which are on the QB with all the tape, eyes on tape but yea that would be interesting to look at.

Playing the QB position is like a barter system. Give and take. Accept pressure/sacks in order to try extend plays. Also I could see a QB having a better OL but bigger sack #'s bc he might trust them more. As opposed to a weak OL, low sack #'s bc you're getting the ball out super quick, running the ball, short passes with no chance of a big play.