Hypothetical Regarding 2008

[upstater1]

While I agree with you, I suspect that the issue is the age old one. Were the defenses on Brady teams better than those on Manning teams?

We tend to counter with the following. Were the offensive weapons better for Brady or Manning?

Manning's Ds were not very good up until 2006.

But Manning's D got him 2 Super Bowl victories.

 

[Hyped]

Aqib Talib ended that first, but I know what you mean.

Du-oh...forgot him! And that rub play by Welker might have cost us a SB berth....maybe....

 

[TheRainMaker]

Yeah man...that was an insane throw...honestly...if Brady had launched it half a second earlier...or if Moss had kept running a bit more...I think it is IMMORTALITY.

The big difference in Moss's game from his time in NE than in Minnesota was how he put his arms up late rather than "Moss'ing DB's" by jumping over guys for it. Age probably had to do with it, but I wasn't a fan of what I would call his "alligator arm" catches. Had he jumped or even put his arms up higher and more aggressively, he has a better shot of catching it.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Du-oh...forgot him! And that rub play by Welker might have cost us a SB berth....maybe....

Him not getting injured in 2012 AFCCG against the Ravens for sure gets them to the Super Bowl. Ravens couldn't move the ball at all until his injury.

 

[sb1]

Hey guys....Falcons fan here. Went to Suffolk law during Pats first two titles so I’ve always liked the Patriots as well.

was having a discussion on Falcons board about Brady/Belichick. While one can’t logically be measured without the other, I always find Brady gets the short end of the stick in this debate.

At this point I view them both as GOAT irrespective of one another. But looking just at 2008, I said the Pats without Belichick but with a healthy Brady likely win the SB. There was a former HC and four future DC’s on the staff. IMO they could have survived a year without Belichick with a return of the historic 2007 offense.

Pretty much everyone disagreed. They think Belichick & Cassell was a better option than Brady without Belichick for one year.

I know it’s a foolish exercise in hypothetical nonsense, but what are your thoughts? What do you guys think would have happened in 2008 if Belichick took a year off but Brady was never injured

The Patriots offense obviously had a downgrade at QB in 08 but the defense took a massive step backwards that season. With Brady they probably win one more game in 08 and make the playoffs and they are eliminated quickly. Defense wins titles and they didn’t have it that year. 11-5 came from having an all time great coach and a very easy schedule.

The difference between the Patriots in 08 and the Colts when they lost Manning was some really weak QBs and a poor head coach with a sub .300 record in college. I’m not making that up. Put Belichick on that Colts team and they are a lot better than 2-14.

 

[Hyped]

Him not getting injured in 2012 AFCCG against the Ravens for sure gets them to the Super Bowl. Ravens couldn't move the ball at all until his injury.

And Stevan Ridley getting knocked out didn't help matters as well.....

Damn, what is so amazing about the BB/Brady era isn't the six Lombardis....but HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO 5-6 MORE.......

 

[sb1]

That play not happening haunts me too.

He could have had it imo.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Doubt the results would be much different. Offense would’ve been great but the defense took a big hit in 2008.

The secondary was attrocious first off. Asante leaving depleted the cbs- you have ellis hobbs , a 2 at best, as the #1 and nothing but jags behind him. Safety was weak too once Rodney went down with sanders and Brandon merriweather. As bad, if not worse than the 2011 secondary. Lb took a hit too as bruschi and adalius went down , plus vrabel experienced a major decline in 2008 leading to him being traded for virtually nothing after the season.

Lots of veteran leadership lost at 2 areas that were already quite borderline. Without Belichick’s magic theyd have alot of trouble overcoming that. Too much for Brady to carry.

 

[tasmlab]

Who replaces BB that year? McDaniels? Pees?

Capers would have been my choice

Interestingly, Scar held the "assistant head coach" title.

2008 New England Patriots season - Wikipedia

 

[tasmlab]

...Trying to imagine how Bernard Pollard would've managed to take out Belichick for the year in this hypothetical. Not a pretty picture.

 

[sb1]

Him not getting injured in 2012 AFCCG against the Ravens for sure gets them to the Super Bowl. Ravens couldn't move the ball at all until his injury.

Flacco doesn’t hit a miracle throw to Jones and we get Fivehead and the Donkeys in the AFCCG. Would have been a good one.

 

[LuRkeR1978]

Flacco doesn’t hit a miracle throw to Jones and we get Fivehead and the Donkeys in the AFCCG. Would have been a good one.

Ridley getting concussed late and fumbling didn't help either. They were only down 8 when that happened.

 

[Doctor DDS]

With that schedule in 2008 I think the Pats go 12-4 or 13-3 with Brady. Not only do they score more but they have less turnovers, greater time of possession and improve field position. Momentum is such an important element in football and I'm sure many of those games would have played out quite differently. Obviously is important who coach is.

The Manning/Brady thing is not really a debate. Manning came up small too many times in the big spot - in 11 of his 13 playoff losses he scored 18 or fewer points. That is not on his defense. Only shootout he lost was the 35-38 game to the Ravens. He only won 3 times when his defense gave up 24 or more points while Brady did it 8 times including 7 when they gave up 27 or more.

 

[TheRainMaker]

And Stevan Ridley getting knocked out didn't help matters as well.....

Damn, what is so amazing about the BB/Brady era isn't the six Lombardis....but HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO 5-6 MORE.......

Ridley getting concussed late and fumbling didn't help either. They were only down 8 when that happened.

I had a bad feeling when Ridley decided to play hero ball against a guy who is known to lay the lumber on WR's and RB's. He challenged Pollard and got knocked the f*** out!

It's a shame as he was having a good game up until that point.

 

[TheRainMaker]

...Trying to imagine how Bernard Pollard would've managed to take out Belichick for the year in this hypothetical. Not a pretty picture.

It would be a good bout.

 

[Uptown]

Let’s not forget the great Deltha O’Neal..

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Honestly, between the time we lost Asante Samuel and signed Darrell Revis...our DB's basically gave receivers huge cushions and got by with zone D. Drove me crazy for years...

The classic Dean Pees defense

.

 

[captain stone]

The Patriots offense obviously had a downgrade at QB in 08 but the defense took a massive step backwards that season. With Brady they probably win one more game in 08 and make the playoffs and they are eliminated quickly. Defense wins titles and they didn’t have it that year. 11-5 came from having an all time great coach and a very easy schedule.

The difference between the Patriots in 08 and the Colts when they lost Manning was some really weak QBs and a poor head coach with a sub .300 record in college. I’m not making that up. Put Belichick on that Colts team and they are a lot better than 2-14.

They win at least 2 more games with Brady than they did with Cassel: at Indy and either the Jesters at home or Sh!tsdirt at home (score was still 10-10 at halftime)...That gives them a 13-3 record and at worst the #2 seed...And although there were 2 strong WC teams (Bal'more & Indy) from the AFC that season, I still would've liked my chances at home vs either of them in the AFCD...

 

[captain stone]

And Stevan Ridley getting knocked out didn't help matters as well.....

Damn, what is so amazing about the BB/Brady era isn't the six Lombardis....but HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO 5-6 MORE.......

We should've had, if there were any justice at all, at least 4 more.