Hypothetical Regarding 2008

[Falcons2020]

Hey guys....Falcons fan here. Went to Suffolk law during Pats first two titles so I’ve always liked the Patriots as well.

was having a discussion on Falcons board about Brady/Belichick. While one can’t logically be measured without the other, I always find Brady gets the short end of the stick in this debate.

At this point I view them both as GOAT irrespective of one another. But looking just at 2008, I said the Pats without Belichick but with a healthy Brady likely win the SB. There was a former HC and four future DC’s on the staff. IMO they could have survived a year without Belichick with a return of the historic 2007 offense.

Pretty much everyone disagreed. They think Belichick & Cassell was a better option than Brady without Belichick for one year.

I know it’s a foolish exercise in hypothetical nonsense, but what are your thoughts? What do you guys think would have happened in 2008 if Belichick took a year off but Brady was never injured

 

[fair catch fryar]

WOW. BB and Brady really are in other teams heads.

 

[XLIX]

Belichick without Brady: 7 years, 1 playoff win
Brady without Belichick: We're about to find out

 

[Falcons2020]

WOW. BB and Brady really are in other teams heads.

LOL...it was actually a discussion on Brady v Manning. People claim Brady always had elite defenses which is why they think Manning was better. I pointed out Manning had a top 10 defense 8 of 17 seasons. Their reef pines was Belichick won with Cassell so it discredits Brady...which I find foolish.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Who replaces BB that year? McDaniels? Pees?

 

[mgteich]

I believe that the 2007 team was the best ever.

The 2008 team with Brady and with McDaniels as interim head coach would have been much better than we had in 2008 with Cassell. I don't think that the comparison is close. The systems and other coaches would have been the same without Belichick. The personnel would have been picked by Belichick. In a very real sense, Belichick out for a year would NOT have meant that his influence would not have been felt. The 2008 would still have been his ST units, his offense, and his defense.

 

[upstater1]

Brady didn't have elite defenses after 2005.

Except for 2018-19 against the Rams.

But even in those great defense years of 2003, 2004 and 2018, have a look at Brady's stats.

That 2003 Carolina Super Bowl, for instance, was a track meet after the first quarter and a half.

Brady's stats were the second best performance ever in a Super Bowl for a QB.

Then look at 2018, that whole postseason he was stellar in games against San Diego and KC. Great stats. The whole postseason he had 2 bad quarters (against the Rams) and 10 excellent quarters.

The idea that it was all about the defense is just plain wrong. Stats and offensive TOP are pretty impressive. The defense from 2006 to 2014 was not to Belichick's standards. In the latter 3rd of Brady's career, they've been pretty good though.

 

[mgteich]

.

The idea that it was all about the defense is just plain wrong. Stats and offensive TOP are pretty impressive. The defense from 2006 to 2014 was not to Belichick's standards. In the latter 3rd of Brady's career, they've been pretty good though.

While I agree with you, I suspect that the issue is the age old one. Were the defenses on Brady teams better than those on Manning teams?

We tend to counter with the following. Were the offensive weapons better for Brady or Manning?

 

[Falcons2020]

Who replaces BB that year? McDaniels? Pees?

Capers would have been my choice

 

[TheRainMaker]

Capers would have been my choice

True. Forgot he was the DB coach.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Brady didn't have elite defenses after 2005.

Overall, 2006 was pretty good. Really good run D and secondary was good enough. Pass rush was mediocre. But the real problem was a lack of depth. One injury at LB and you had Eric Alexander looking helpless against Clark and Fletcher who made a big catch for 32 yards late in the game.

Fast forward to 2007, you think LB would've been addressed since they were old as s*** and after what happened against the Colts? Thomas was a great signing, but he was 30-31 years old. Jon Beason was a popular pick to go the Pats. Nope, they took the Merriweather. Beason could've been the difference when Colvin went down earlier in the season, forcing Thomas to become more of a pass rusher which weakened their coverage in the middle of the field. That big catch and run by Kevin Boss in the Super Bowl still haunts me.

That 2003 Carolina Super Bowl, for instance, was a track meet after the first quarter and a half.

Defense flat out collapsed, but Brady had a chance to step on the Panthers throat up 21-10 inside the Panthers 10-15 yard line. He throws a pick in the end zone which was a very overlooked bad characteristic of his early to mid career. It doesn't get talked about because he ended up winning most games.

The idea that it was all about the defense is just plain wrong.

Yes, it's a popular myth.

The defense from 2006 to 2014 was not to Belichick's standards.

One of my biggest pet peeve's with BB. His calling card was D, yet they struggled just to be good enough. They had a lot of mediocre D's.

 

[Hyped]

Some comments in regards to 2008:

- If Matt Slater, then a rookie, doesn't fumble a kick off vs. Pittsburgh...we have 1 more win that season, IMO.

- If Brett Favre doesn't hit Dustin Keller on 3rd and NINETEEN in OT...we have 1 more win that season, IMO.

- Cassell threw for 400+ yards down in Miami that season.

- Cassell looked like CRAP that pre-season...and many, including myself, thought he would be cut outright.

- They were the first 11-5 team to miss the playoffs since 1987 and the first to do so in a 12 team playoff format....and the 2nd BB era Patriot team to miss the playoffs ON THE THIRD TIE BREAKER!

- IMO, that was the greatest season of Randy Moss' career...he basically carried Cassell that season TBH.

=================

Had Brady been the QB, that was a 13-3/14-2 team no doubt...with BB. Without BB...maybe 12-4.

 

[Hyped]

While I agree with you, I suspect that the issue is the age old one. Were the defenses on Brady teams better than those on Manning teams?

We tend to counter with the following. Were the offensive weapons better for Brady or Manning?

The only two times Manning reached the top of the mountain...his defenses played lights out.

 

[Hyped]

One of my biggest pet peeve's with BB. His calling card was D, yet they struggled just to be good enough. They had a lot of mediocre D's.

Honestly, between the time we lost Asante Samuel and signed Darrell Revis...our DB's basically gave receivers huge cushions and got by with zone D. Drove me crazy for years...

 

[TheRainMaker]

- If Matt Slater, then a rookie, doesn't fumble a kick off in Pittsburgh...we have 1 more win that season, IMO.

But didn't Cassell turn the ball over a ton?

- If Brett Favre doesn't hit Dustin Keller on 3rd and NINETEEN in OT...we have 1 more win that season, IMO.

Damn Jets. Then they lay an egg against Miami AT HOME week 17. Figures.

- Cassell threw for 400+ yards down in Miami that season.

Satisfying revenge game.

- Cassell looked like CRAP that pre-season...and many, including myself, thought he would be cut outright.

I thought for sure he was gone.

- IMO, that was the greatest season of Randy Moss' career...he basically carried Cassell that season TBH.

Eh, his best seasons were in Minnesota. I was a big Moss fan, but you could tell he was a lessor player than his time with the Vikings.

Had Brady been the QB, that was a 13-3/14-2 team no doubt...with BB. Without BB...maybe 12-4.

No doubt. While people are correct the D wasn't good, they went 14-2 with a terrible D in 2010.

 

[Hyped]

But didn't Cassell turn the ball over a ton?

Eh, his best seasons were in Minnesota. I was a big Moss fan, but you could tell he was a lessor player than his time with the Vikings.

Yeah, we had two fumbles and 2 INTs in addition to the Slater fumble. However, Slater fumbled it when we were only down 13-10 late in the 3rd. It became a 20-10 game then...and the rout was basically on although our D kept limiting them to figgies.

And I am not that familiar with Moss' Minnesota years other than the nationally televised games, but one of my favorite receptions he made was this one in 2008:



That was freaking amazing and clutch.....

 

[Falcons2020]

Yeah, we had two fumbles and 2 INTs in addition to the Slater fumble. However, Slater fumbled it when we were only down 13-10 late in the 3rd. It became a 20-10 game then...and the rout was basically on although our D kept limiting them to figgies.

And I am not that familiar with Moss' Minnesota years other than the nationally televised games, but one of my favorite receptions he made was this one in 2008:



That was freaking amazing and clutch.....

This would have been his best catch, and he could have come down with it

 

[Hyped]

This would have been his best catch, and he could have come down with it

Yeah man...that was an insane throw...honestly...if Brady had launched it half a second earlier...or if Moss had kept running a bit more...I think it is IMMORTALITY.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Honestly, between the time we lost Asante Samuel and signed Darrell Revis...our DB's basically gave receivers huge cushions and got by with zone D. Drove me crazy for years...

Aqib Talib ended that first, but I know what you mean.

Yeah, we had two fumbles and 2 INTs in addition to the Slater fumble. However, Slater fumbled it when we were only down 13-10 late in the 3rd. It became a 20-10 game then...and the rout was basically on although our D kept limiting them to figgies.

And I am not that familiar with Moss' Minnesota years other than the nationally televised games, but one of my favorite receptions he made was this one in 2008:



That was freaking amazing and clutch.....

Yeah that was an amazing catch.

 

[TheRainMaker]

This would have been his best catch, and he could have come down with it

That play not happening haunts me too.