OT: MLB issues Red Sox penalty

[sb1]

Seems fair. No surprise at all about Cora. Maybe the Pats one is coming soon too.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Pats punishment: Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski suspended for 2020.

 

[Deus Irae]

Seems fair. No surprise at all about Cora. Maybe the Pats one is coming soon too.

You're getting this wrong, too.

 

[sb1]

You're getting this wrong, too.

Are you going to elaborate - or keep up the suspense?

Seems like a fair penalty to me. In no way shape or form this can be compared to the systemic scheme the Astros had in place.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Seems like the Red Sox front office could rehire Cora if they choose.

 

[borg]

2018
Year 1 of Cora-“ball”
MVP caliber seasons for Mookie and JD

2019
MLB under sign stealing microscope
Mookie and JD come down to Earth

Funny how that works

 

[Deus Irae]

Are you going to elaborate - or keep up the suspense?

Seems like a fair penalty to me. In no way shape or form this can be compared to the systemic scheme the Astros had in place.

A video stiff, who's legitimate job included decoding signs before and after the game, just got a harsher penalty than Houston's general manager and head coach, and than Alex Cora, because he passed on some of that sort of information during some games.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

2018
Year 1 of Cora-“ball”
MVP caliber seasons for Mookie and JD

2019
MLB under sign stealing microscope
Mookie and JD come down to Earth

Funny how that works

Funny how even as a casual fan, even I know your argument is bunk. The Red Sox pitching in 2018 versus 2019 was the outlier...not the hitting. You merely pointed to two players to boost your argument. I'm sure some of the sign stealing helped, but virtually all analysis has shows a very, very small average increase in offensive categories. Which is why I've thought this scandal is hugely overblown and was hoping the Astros would win another 100 games just to show the hysteria once again.

 

[sb1]

MLB finished a complicated investigation into a team in a couple of months after the Astros were penalized.

NFL is still investigating the Patriots almost half a year now for the one time they pointed a camera at Bengals players backsides in front of everyone.

Makes sense right?

 

[archstanton543]

Funny how even as a casual fan, even I know your argument is bunk. The Red Sox pitching in 2018 versus 2019 was the outlier...not the hitting. You merely pointed to two players to boost your argument. I'm sure some of the sign stealing helped, but virtually all analysis has shows a very, very small average increase in offensive categories. Which is why I've thought this scandal is hugely overblown and was hoping the Astros would win another 100 games just to show the hysteria once again.

The margin of victory comes in that slight average increase, though.

 

[sb1]

A video stiff, who's legitimate job included decoding signs before and after the game, just got a harsher penalty than Houston's general manager and head coach, and than Alex Cora, because he passed on some of that sort of information during some games.

Sounds like the 2018 Red Sox other than the video guy were cleared. I don’t disagree that the Astros GM and Hinch should have gotten more but in this case this is fair.

 

[Koma]

4 (5?) months to figure out that it was the dastardly and irredeemable J.T. Watkins who was at fault? I mean, I knew it was him all along, but I didn't want to say anything.

Still, it's nice that this is done. For whatever faults MLB had in handling, they're still light years ahead of the NFL (who, as sb1 noted, is still fumbling along with their investigation of an event that happened in plain sight.)

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

The margin of victory comes in that slight average increase, though.

You're not wrong...it is an advantage, though certainly much less than the average baseball fan thinks when hearing about it. I just wish the reporting would reflect the actual measured effect and not the hysteria.

I mean, after going through Spygate/Deflategate, we also have to consider that any non-Astros fans are going to ***** and moan and make it seem 1,000X worse than it is.

 

[borg]

Funny how even as a casual fan, even I know your argument is bunk. The Red Sox pitching in 2018 versus 2019 was the outlier...not the hitting. You merely pointed to two players to boost your argument. I'm sure some of the sign stealing helped, but virtually all analysis has shows a very, very small average increase in offensive categories. Which is why I've thought this scandal is hugely overblown and was hoping the Astros would win another 100 games just to show the hysteria once again.

Betts .... from .346 to .295 (career .301)
JD.........from .330 to .304 (career .294)
Simply a coincidence lmfao

 

[RobertWeathers]

I find myself not giving a rats fart about this.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Betts .... from .346 to .295 (career .301)
JD.........from .330 to .304 (career .294)
Simply a coincidence lmfao

lmfao...really? You didn't prove anything and merely doubled down on your stance by again pointing to the two players. That's a better measure than the entire team?

Red Sox Batting Stats Comparison, 2018 vs 2019

Batting Average
2019 > 2018

Runs/Game
2019 > 2018

Home Runs
2019 > 2018

On Base %
2019 > 2018

Slugging %
2019 > 2018

OPS
2019 > 2018

 

[Doctor DDS]

Xander Bogaerts and Christian Vazquez had substantially better years in 2019 than 2018. Coincidence? If teams know that other teams are stealing their signals yet they start a new inning with same sequence I am not sure whose fault that is.

 

[Patsgofor4]

 

[Satchboogie3]

Betts .... from .346 to .295 (career .301)
JD.........from .330 to .304 (career .294)
Simply a coincidence lmfao

Well, for JD his prior best BA was 0.315. 0.15 points higher is hardly suspicious. His SLG in '18 was higher than his career average, sure, but lower (0.690 - 0.629) than the year prior ('17).

Betts definitely had a career year... but he's also just barely getting into his prime so A. who knows just how high his ceiling is and B. He might end up being a player who isn't consistent year to year. And C, sometimes guys have outlier years. Happens all the time.

But take a look at the rest of the lineup. Moreland was nearly identical '17-'18, much better '19. Xander was good in '18, but even better in '19, the trend clearly coming into his prime. Beni had his best season, granted he's 24 and has a whopping 4 seasons to compare... huge sample size! JBJ was useless in '18. Nuni had a terrible '18. Holt had a career norm BA and had a better season in '19. Vazq had by far his worst season in '18.

Clearly you are just cherry picking.

EDIT:
Is this something that was restricted to Fenway, or could they do this on the road to? If it was just Fenway, the splits also don't support cheating as the reason for the performance from Betts.
Career splits:
Home: .319 .387 .542 .930
Away: .285 .361 .497 .858

2018:
Home: .364 .461 .657 1.118
Away: . 331 .418 .627 1.045

Very similar difference home to away. If the cheating only took place at Fenway, I would expect his road numbers to be a bigger gap than his career...

JD also was consistent career splits vs '18.

 

[Bradybranch]

Betts .... from .346 to .295 (career .301)
JD.........from .330 to .304 (career .294)
Simply a coincidence lmfao

Christian Vazquez tho
edit: Xander Bogaerts too