Revisting the Wes Welker trade

[vinhividivici]

I was wrong about Sammy Morris in a similar way. I didn't mind the player, I just didn't think he'd add much. Boy was I wrong there.

heheh looking at these similar threads on here I'm glad that's why we're fans and not coaches or Front office making decisions. There are things that we're not at privy with and infos that we don't have. And that's why they're getting PAID to make these decisions and us to watch weekends.

 

[LoveDemPats]

So, how many people still feel that trading 2nd (28th/ 60th overall) & 7th (28th/238th overall) round picks was overpaying?

I loved the deal as soon as it happened, and the more I see this kid play, the more I wonder what the Dolphins were thinking. Imagine that they dealt away a return man, and leading reciever for a late 2nd, and then went ahead and took Ted Ginn Jr 9th in the first round. Now, had they dealt Welker, taken Brady Quinn, and announced they were rebuilding, that'd be one thing. However, they went ahead and traded for a 37 year old, labotomized Trent Green.

How many omlets could you make with Green's brain? And, would they be green eggs, like green eggs and ham?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Boomer on WEEI just said that he and Marino were saying how the hell could the Phins have traded Welker away? Too funny. Aqua's binky 'talked football' and disagreed with him.

 

[BTTA]

The Pats were going to sign Welker to a contract (with one of those infamous "poison pills" i.e. he gets an extra 5 million if he pays 6 home games in Miami in a year) and pay the 2nd draft pick for compensation. What they did, was make it a trade instead, (as to not piss off, a division rival, and not have the Dolphins do the same thing in turn to the Pats later on).

Exactly. It WASN'T a trade! Why it keeps being called that is...

 

[Oswlek]

Exactly. It WASN'T a trade! Why it keeps being called that is...

It *was* a trade, but the tables had been set for Welker to come to NE. Miami really had two options.

1) Let Welker go to NE based on a poison pill contract and only get a 2nd.
2) Trade Welker to NE and get a 2nd as well as a 7th.

Miami chose #2 meaning that was a trade, but your point that Miami shouldn't be chided for their decision is a good one.

 

[libalu53]

I was down in Florida for this past Superbowl. The NFL had an event on Hollywood Beach on the sand, a flag football game. Doug Flutie was the quarterback and Welker was one of his receivers. Now the game was played barefooted on the sand.

Welker would get open with ease and caught EVERYTHING Flute thru his way and was incredibly fast on the sand even barefooted. When the Pats traded for him, I knew it was a good move.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I was down in Florida for this past Superbowl. The NFL had an event on Hollywood Beach on the sand, a flag football game. Doug Flutie was the quarterback and Welker was one of his receivers. Now the game was played barefooted on the sand.

Welker would get open with ease and caught EVERYTHING Flute thru his way and was incredibly fast on the sand even barefooted. When the Pats traded for him, I knew it was a good move.

Who's the bigger guy?

 

[Water Boy]

I continually insisted that, while Welker was a nice little player, the Patriots overpaid. Glad to be wrong.

Have a piece of humble pie. I was stoked on Welker for a 2&7 from day 1.

 

[Kdo5]

Welker was an amazing steal. I was happy that we got him and wasn't worrying that we overpayed, he has exceeded expectations. In Beoli I trust of course. And Welker was easily the best offensive and special teams player Miami had and they traded him. Go figure, the idiots.

After the Miami game I think early on in 2006, I wanted Welker on this team badly.

 

[ALP]

allrit, we got wes, so now lets get ronnie, LOL, and leave NO ONE to score points for the fins, LOL

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

It looks like Reiss was trolling and stole our idea...

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba.../patriots_pounced_fast_to_grab_welker/?page=2

p.s. he didn't even give me any credit:

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

What I said....

The Pats were going to sign Welker to a contract (with one of those infamous "poison pills" i.e. he gets an extra 5 million if he pays 6 home games in Miami in a year) and pay the 2nd draft pick for compensation. What they did, was make it a trade instead, (as to not piss off, a division rival, and not have the Dolphins do the same thing in turn to the Pats later on). Think about it, the most famous "poison pills" have been between Minnisota and Seattle (Minnisota did it to Seattle with Hutchinson, and then Seattle returned the favor with Burleson) BB smartly didn't want to get into this sort of pissing match with the Dolphins so he added the 7th round pick (let's face it, how many 7th rd picks are making this team?).

It was just good business.

What Reiss said...
By that point, the only question was how to finalize the process. The Patriots were prepared to sign Welker to an offer sheet that included a "poison pill" that would make it difficult for the Dolphins to match. Yet in hopes of avoiding the bad blood that sometimes can accompany offer sheets - the Seahawks and Vikings recently engaged in a nasty back and forth with offensive lineman Steve Hutchinson and receiver Nate Burleson exchanging teams via offer sheets - the Patriots instead called the Dolphins and proposed a trade.

 

[Fixit]

It looks like Reiss was trolling and stole our idea...

http://www.boston.com/sports/footba.../patriots_pounced_fast_to_grab_welker/?page=2

p.s. he didn't even give me any credit:

You mean like this?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=61558&highlight=revisited

You'll be hearing from my lawyers.

 

[aluminum seats]

I will never understand the very high value teams and fans put on draft picks in the NFL. You never know how they will perform at the pro level (how many first round busts have there been not related to injury?).

IIRC, the Pats did get Light and Geno in round 2, but they also got Klemm and Hill and Bethel in round 2.

With Welker, BB saw what he was getting and knew he could perform at the NFL level. I can honestly say I never thought it was too much for this much heart and versatility ... a worthy successor to Troy Brown.

Exactly. Fans of all teams do this all the time--they worship the idea of draft picks. I was honestly surprised at the hesitation on this board about Welker. We'd seen the guy play against us! It was obvious what he was, and if we drafted a guy in the second round to get that kind of guy, we'd be thrilled. It was a great deal the second it happened--known quantities are ALWAYS better than draft picks.

 

[Oswlek]

Exactly. Fans of all teams do this all the time--they worship the idea of draft picks. I was honestly surprised at the hesitation on this board about Welker. We'd seen the guy play against us! It was obvious what he was, and if we drafted a guy in the second round to get that kind of guy, we'd be thrilled. It was a great deal the second it happened--known quantities are ALWAYS better than draft picks.

Contract depending.

But in this case, Welker was signed to a good sized contract that isn't cap debilitating in any way. So it really was a no-brainer.

 

[Dolfaniss]

I'm sure everyone here will disagree with me but here goes anyway. This deal was a no brainer for Miami. The Patriots gave Welker a contract that had some type of the proverbial poisen pill in it and Miami could not have matched it. There wasn't much of a choice there. I like Wes Welker but it's not like Miami would be sitting at 6-0 or even 5-1 with him as there slot WR or KR/PR, do you guys think so? He can't play outside as Miami tried it when Booker was out and it didn't work. Not to mention there are many slot WR's in the NFL who could be playing with Moss, Brady and Stallworth and be just as productive. Satele is proving to be a good draft pick, rare for Miami, we shall see how he pans out. However, I wouldn't expect much from Miami's running game Sunday unless the Fish show they can throw early. The Patriots will not be run on if that's all your offense is capable of doing.

On to Ginn, give him some time their guys. Since you guys are comparing him to Welker I will as well. In Wes Welker's first season as a pro he had 0 catches for 0 yards (Ginn is already ahead of that), in his 2nd he was used sparingly and had better stats, in his 3rd he was really good and now he's even better, granted with the most prolific offense in the NFL right now. See my point, WR's even ones that were drafted high, take some time to make an impact. I think Ginn will be a starter now so at least he will have a chance. Ginn will take one to the house soon if the rest of the Miami special teams players just don't touch anyone.

 

[Oswlek]

I'm sure everyone here will disagree with me but here goes anyway. This deal was a no brainer for Miami. The Patriots gave Welker a contract that had some type of the proverbial poisen pill in it and Miami could not have matched it. There wasn't much of a choice there. I like Wes Welker but it's not like Miami would be sitting at 6-0 or even 5-1 with him as there slot WR or KR/PR, do you guys think so? He can't play outside as Miami tried it when Booker was out and it didn't work. Not to mention there are many slot WR's in the NFL who could be playing with Moss, Brady and Stallworth and be just as productive. Satele is proving to be a good draft pick, rare for Miami, we shall see how he pans out. However, I wouldn't expect much from Miami's running game Sunday unless the Fish show they can throw early. The Patriots will not be run on if that's all your offense is capable of doing.

On to Ginn, give him some time their guys. Since you guys are comparing him to Welker I will as well. In Wes Welker's first season as a pro he had 0 catches for 0 yards (Ginn is already ahead of that), in his 2nd he was used sparingly and had better stats, in his 3rd he was really good and now he's even better, granted with the most prolific offense in the NFL right now. See my point, WR's even ones that were drafted high, take some time to make an impact. I think Ginn will be a starter now so at least he will have a chance. Ginn will take one to the house soon if the rest of the Miami special teams players just don't touch anyone.

You are right. After Miami made the mistake of making Welker attainable, they really had no choice in trading him to NE because they were going to lose him anyway.

Your second point only illuminates further why it was just as much of a no-brainer for NE as it was for Miami. Trades don't have to be a complete ripoff to be good.

 

[Dolfaniss]

You are right. After Miami made the mistake of making Welker attainable, they really had no choice in trading him to NE because they were going to lose him anyway.

Your second point only illuminates further why it was just as much of a no-brainer for NE as it was for Miami. Trades don't have to be a complete ripoff to be good.

I did think the thing was good for both sides.

 

[Amnorix]

I did think the thing was good for both sides.

Actually, no. Dolphins scrweed up royally by not tendering him higher. Once they had screwed up, however, they did the best they could by extracting a 2 and a 7.

But that doesn't fix the initial mistake. Tendering at a 2 was a big time whiff.

 

[Dolfaniss]

Actually, no. Dolphins scrweed up royally by not tendering him higher. Once they had screwed up, however, they did the best they could by extracting a 2 and a 7.

But that doesn't fix the initial mistake. Tendering at a 2 was a big time whiff.

I don't know about that, a first for Welker? Miami got a 2nd for Chambers and he is a former pro bowler, Baltimore gave up a 3rd for Willis McGahee and he is 4th in th NFL in rushing right now and don't forget Oakland only getting a 4th for Moss.

It would be interesting to see how Welker would fair with Gaffney and Caldwell as NE's starting duo or how a guy like Stokely, Roscoe Parrish or even Josh Reed would be in Welker's current role. My guess would be that Welker wouldn't be as good and Stokely, Parrish or Reed would be on everyones fantasy squads. The bottom line is Brady, Moss and Stallworth make everything tick in NE and many othe slot guys could be lighting it up like Wes.

It's tough to debate football with fans of the team that makes all the right moves though.