Antonio Brown

[Patstastic]

We're all painfully aware of Bob's shortcomings and failures. We had some practice at that since our team's founding.

But, just as we can't discount Sullivan's good, smart decisions - and there were a few - we can't dismiss all the good, right decisions Kraft has made.

Including hiring Bill Belichick, against the strong advice of many people.

Going forward, your concern is very legitimate, that our future coach and quarterback will not be so tolerant.

Assuming BB coaches past 70 (Including the 2022 season), Kraft will be 81. Are we even sure Bob will want to be a hands on owner at that stage of his life? It's also possible (Hopefully) that BB is made president of football operations once he retires.

 

[catent]

I don't know for sure if he did or didn't. But neither do you.

Objective science indicates you're wrong.

You're either the most cynical, miserable Patriots' fan to ever grace this forum, or you're with another team and trolling.

 

[catent]

Edelman was a POS when he sexually assaulted that woman at a nightclub in 2011 too, right? After all, an allegation was made against him. How can root for the Patriots then?

Oh that’s right, you forgot that allegations and facts not the same thing.

So at this point his only “known” wrongdoing was an ambiguous text message which, while I could understand the woman being very upset, was very likely not meant to be a threat against her kids. As I pointed out earlier, Bobby wanted every member of the Jupiter PD’s investigative team given a cavity search and all their dirty laundry aired out. Okay to play hardball when allegations are against Bobby; immediate release otherwise. The guy is a flaming hypocrite.

Edelman kept his mouth shut, explained the situation to the team (and presumably legal counsel), and ultimately was exonerated.

Brown texted one of the women 48 hours after being explicitly told by the league (and presumably the team) to not contact these people, in addition to multiple social media posts painting himself as a persecuted victim.

Had he not sent those incredibly stupid (and malicious) texts he'd still be on the team and Kraft wouldn't have stepped in.

It's not about the allegations; it's about Brown's inability to control himself.

Folks need to stop blaming Kraft for texts that Brown pressed 'send' on.

 

[catent]

He texted her when when Klemko dug up the case and made it a front page story, at which point there were more calls to release/investigate him. Are you really saying the guy should be a robot and ignore legal actions taken against him? I don’t agree with the way he texted her, but sheesh. The fact is he was at every practice working hard, being a good teammate, and fulfilling all his obligations to the team. That Kraft would demand that he says out of his own legal matters is beyond hypocritical.

I don’t think a lot of people realize what real character problems are for diva NFL players and their effect on the locker room. Tons of these guys have off-field drama. Brown was in a great place in terms of football and his teammates were embracing him. It’s not like he was TO telling the press about how he wants the ball more or **** like that.

The second accusation was entirely credible and the woman *never* asked for any compensation. She shared her story after the initial Taylor suit.

This isn't the media's fault. Just to recount the chronology:

1.) Taylor files a suit against Brown (which I acknowledge seems flimsy).
2.) Klemko then thinks, "huh, interesting. This is a matter of public interest and I should investigate and see what else might be here".
3.) He hears from a second woman (who NEVER asked for any compensation, nor filed a suit/charges at any point) who shares her experience of painting at Brown's house and being approached by Brown, who was wearing nothing but a hand towel over his crotch.
4.) Klemko also digs up lots of other issues, including unpaid bills, the furniture throwing incident, a woman with injuries, all of which *was documented via police reports and court filings*.
5.) Brown then lashes out at woman #2, sending her pics of her kids and telling her his boys are coming to dig up dirt; Brown was explicitly told 48 hours prior to not contact these women. Again, this being the woman who *never* asked for money or filed charges.

It's not the media's fault. It's not Kraft's fault.

It IS Brown's fault for behaving the way he did in the aftermath of these accusations, which whether true or not, does not excuse Brown's behavior. A millionaire professional should be able to control himself and behave in a way expected of an adult.

Look, I'm really freaking disappointed that Brown is gone, I desperately wanted to see him play here. But it wasn't meant to be as evidenced by Brown's own actions. The guy was a ticking time bomb, and considering the fact that he was explicitly told by the league not to contact these women, and then did, I suspect he would've ended up on the exempt list, if not for those texts, certainly for a subsequent issue down the line. If we've learned anything about the guy, from Pittsburgh, to Oakland, to New England, and to free-agency, it's that the guy fundamentally cannot control himself, stay off social media, and not say incredible stupid, offensive things.

Again, this is the guy who said "system working effectively" in response to death threats towards Klemko. I want ZERO part of the him at this point. He's a malignant personality that leaves a toxic wake everywhere he goes. I hope for his own sake, and for the sake of those around him, that he genuinely changes and evolves, but clearly that has yet to happen; maybe down the line, but not yet.

Bummed we don't have Brown the football player? Of course. But that's in an ideal world, and that ideal world is not aligned with reality.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I didn't go further for fear of breaking a rule.

Oh I think I get it now. Is it a guy who tweets a lot and has a rug on his head?

 

[catent]

Kraft to attorneys: dig up everything you can on the Jupiter PD, involving any dirt in their past, to cast doubt on their investigation (see the case files - it’s right in there.)

Brown to attorney: dig up everything you can on this lady, involving any dirt in her past, to cast doubt on her claims. She’s broke and here’s a picture of her kids, why she may be looking for money (admittedly, this was not a good tactic.)

Seems quite analogous to me.

Several things ...

The woman he texted never filed a suit or criminal charges, nor did she ask for compensation; she simply shared her story in an article.

Kraft's lawyers acted via legal channels, and any correspondences were handled privately. Brown texted not only his attorneys, but also his friends and the woman himself, and did not assert that his lawyers were coming for her (which would still be stupid to say), but instead said that his personal friends were coming for her.

Kraft was digging up dirt on an entity that had formally charged him (Jupiter PD). Brown was going after an individual who never pressed charges or filed a suit at any point.

Not analogous.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Edelman kept his mouth shut, explained the situation to the team (and presumably legal counsel), and ultimately was exonerated.

Brown texted one of the women 48 hours after being explicitly told by the league (and presumably the team) to not contact these people, in addition to multiple social media posts painting himself as a persecuted victim.

Had he not sent those incredibly stupid (and malicious) texts he'd still be on the team and Kraft wouldn't have stepped in.

It's not about the allegations; it's about Brown's inability to control himself.

Folks need to stop blaming Kraft for texts that Brown pressed 'send' on.

Group think runs wild here & they love going after Kraft.

Guy is far from perfect but not nearly as bad as the pack barks.

For such an older crowd you'd think the have perspective from previous owners this team has had.

 

[BUSTAMOVE]

Who gives a royal ****e. Brady plays football. Kraft and BB do the hiring and firing.

First we wanted prima donna distraction fueled fecal matter players like AB. Players that ruin the enjoyment of pure football. A New Years Eve Party horn blowing in your ear all day long.

Now we are thinking Brady may be pulling off a Aaron Rodgers. I will always adore TB12 because he just plays and wins. Never makes himself bigger than the team. It would kill me to think he is stamping his feet on team matters other than himself. If for some unfortunate reason he is then STFU Tom and just play. Yeah I’m not afraid to say that because I want things to be the same way they have been for the past 20 years. Just win baby

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Several things ...

The woman he texted never filed a suit or criminal charges, nor did she ask for compensation; she simply shared her story in an article.

Kraft's lawyers acted via legal channels, and any correspondences were handled privately. Brown texted not only his attorneys, but also his friends and the woman himself, and did not assert that his lawyers were coming for her (which would still be stupid to say), but instead said that his personal friends were coming for her.

Kraft was digging up dirt on an entity that had formally charged him (Jupiter PD). Brown was going after an individual who never pressed charges or filed a suit at any point.

Not analogous.

I covered this is another post. I can’t defend Brown to the point of saying he didn’t do something very stupid. I would do the same thing if I were woman #2. However, the contexts of the text messages do not, to me, do not show the pictures of her kids a menacing threat against them. My point again is that Brown is a turd but didn’t do enough in my mind to get cut, and obviously we all have different opinions on this. And when you consider Brown’s lack of intelligence and polish, yes, his “go on the offensive” idea was absolutely what Kraft himself did with the JPD.

 

[catent]

It just doesn't make sense to me. I get being disappointed that things didn't work out, I'm really bummed too.

I even get the line of thinking that Brown shouldn't have been cut for those texts. I personally disagree, but I get if someone said, "this isn't a bridge too far yet, he's too talented to let go of, we should give him another chance beyond those texts".

But I do not understand shifting blame to Kraft, or anyone other than Brown, for that matter.

Maybe I could understand partially blaming Taylor, who made the initial accusation that lead to this sh*tstorm, should her suit turn out to not be credible. But even then, there was a way for Brown to resolve that initial accusation without being cut, and would've involved keeping blinders on and not texting either these women (as the NFL told him not to do), let alone the one who didn't make the initial accusation, and never pressed charges, filed suit, or asked for compensation.

Is it being lost on posters that Brown texted woman #2, who only shared her story via an article, and never filed suit, pressed charges, or asked for compensation?

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Group think runs wild here & they love going after Kraft.

Guy is far from perfect but not nearly as bad as the pack barks.

For such an older crowd you'd think the have perspective from previous owners this team has had.

Many of us will never forgive him for the way he handled Deflategate and are naturally suspicious of his priorities (the 31 over the Patriots.) I think that attitude is very fair and not group think. No one used to attack him before 2015 and then everything changed. He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[MoreBellhorn]

I’m 32 and I’m getting sick of Kraft, especially after his own transgressions. He had zero punishment and yet still gets on this moral high ground after getting blowjobs at a questionable massage parlor. Go **** yourself.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It just doesn't make sense to me. I get being disappointed that things didn't work out, I'm really bummed too.

I even get the line of thinking that Brown shouldn't have been cut for those texts. I personally disagree, but I get if someone said, "this isn't a bridge too far yet, he's too talented to let go of, we should give him another chance beyond those texts".

But I do not understand shifting blame to Kraft, or anyone other than Brown, for that matter.

Maybe I could understand partially blaming Taylor, who made the initial accusation that lead to this sh*tstorm, should her suit turn out to not be credible. But even then, there was a way for Brown to resolve that initial accusation without being cut, and would've involved keeping blinders on and not texting either these women (as the NFL told him not to do), let alone the one who didn't make the initial accusation, and never pressed charges, filed suit, or asked for compensation.

Is it being lost on posters that Brown texted woman #2, who only shared her story via an article, and never filed suit, pressed charges, or asked for compensation?

See the post right below this...it’s a natural mistrust of Kraft and whether he’s doing things for the 31 because he folds like a cheap tent. Many other owners would fight tooth and nail to keep a superstar player. Look at what the Chiefs just did.

Kraft didn’t even let the league investigation play out. Brown may have been suspended for a few games, written an apology, etc. Knowing Belichick wasn’t on board with this speaks volumes. Belichick is also familiar with “the line.”

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Many of us will never forgive him for the way he handled Deflategate and are naturally suspicious of his priorities (the 31 over the Patriots.) I think that attitude is very fair and not group think. No one used to attack him before 2015 and then everything changed. He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

It's a billionaire boys club, none are going Jon Snow vs 31.

Again I dont agree w everything he's done or think he's perfect but he's as good as it gets it sports.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's a billionaire boys club, none are going Jon Snow vs 31.

Again I dont agree w everything he's done or think he's perfect but he's as good as it gets it sports.

How can I use the agree and disagree buttons at the same time for one post?

 

[MoreBellhorn]

I wish Belichick controlled everything without interference.

 

[catent]

I covered this is another post. I can’t defend Brown to the point of saying he didn’t do something very stupid. I would do the same thing if I were woman #2. However, the contexts of the text messages do not, to me, do not show the pictures of her kids a menacing threat against them. My point again is that Brown is a turd but didn’t do enough in my mind to get cut, and obviously we all have different opinions on this. And when you consider Brown’s lack of intelligence and polish, yes, his “go on the offensive” idea was absolutely what Kraft himself did with the JPD.

But the situations are not analogous, IMHO.

Kraft's lawyers went after an entity that had formally charged Kraft, poked legitimate holes in their case from a legal perspective by demonstrating where they had not followed the law. Kraft nor his lawyers directly assassinated the credibility of Jupiter PD; they simply exposed the flaws in their legal/charging process. Any embarrassment/character assassination resulted only from exposing their flawed legal process.

Brown personally (not his lawyers) went after this woman, who had never formally charged Brown with anything, and therefore Brown was not exposing a flawed legal process. Rather, he was exclusively attempting to assassinate the character of this woman in the most asinine way imaginable.

I don't care how unpolished Brown is; if he is unable to follow the basic instruction of the NFL to not contact these women, then I don't see how he could possibly be trusted for any extended period of time. And it's not just these texts -- everywhere Brown has been, he has repeatedly acted in stupid, toxic, malicious ways on social media and has shown zero capacity to learn, grow, and change.

Again, not a matter of 'if', a matter of 'when'.

 

[IllegalContact]

Uh no, before he owned the Patriots he was a multi-millionaire paper magnate who needed loans in and of itself to even buy the team, but it’s okay if math is too hard.

You have no clue.......the team was selling out long before Brady and the stadium was a real thing long before Brady ..... the value was inevitable with Brady or without.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

But the situations are not analogous, IMHO.

Kraft's lawyers went after an entity that had formally charged Kraft, poked legitimate holes in their case from a legal perspective by demonstrating where they had not followed the law. Kraft nor his lawyers directly assassinated the credibility of Jupiter PD; they simply exposed the flaws in their legal/charging process. Any embarrassment/character assassination resulted only from exposing their flawed legal process.

Brown personally (not his lawyers) went after this woman, who had never formally charged Brown with anything, and therefore Brown was not exposing a flawed legal process. Rather, he was exclusively attempting to assassinate the character of this woman in the most asinine way imaginable.

I don't care how unpolished Brown is; if he is unable to follow the basic instruction of the NFL to not contact these women, then I don't see how he could possibly be trusted for any extended period of time. And it's not just these texts -- everywhere Brown has been he has repeatedly acted in stupid, toxic, malicious ways on social media and has shown zero capacity to learn, grow, and change. Again, not a matter of 'if', a matter of 'when'.

Analogous and the same are different things. You really need to read the case files on Kraft and the legal team’s strategy, which was to pick apart the credibility of anyone in the JPD for previous disciplinary reasons. Most of that became unnecessary because the case didn’t even get to that stage, but that was absolutely their plan if the tapes had been allowed. @venecol followed the case very closely as he lives there and can confirm this.

Brown is an unpolished idiot who is knows the streets and the hood; Kraft is an elite rich guy with an education and lives in the norms of society. Both guys went after the people who were accusing them of wrongdoings as their strategies, trying to wield their power to the best of their abilities. Kraft and his “principled stand” here is quite laughable.

 

[IllegalContact]

See the post right below this...it’s a natural mistrust of Kraft and whether he’s doing things for the 31 because he folds like a cheap tent. Many other owners would fight tooth and nail to keep a superstar player. Look at what the Chiefs just did.

Kraft didn’t even let the league investigation play out. Brown may have been suspended for a few games, written an apology, etc. Knowing Belichick wasn’t on board with this speaks volumes. Belichick is also familiar with “the line.”

Kraft is about the value of his investment......anything else would make him a fool