Edelman & D. Thomas back at practice; Gordon in warmups

[Sicilian]

Not being able to differentiate a slot receiver from an outside receiver takes a special kid of poster. Berrios and Thomas do not play the same position. Berrios is almost exclusively a slot receiver while DT has played the majority of his career on the outside. There is a redundancy with Harry, Gordon, and DT at this point. They have similar skillsets and we know Harry is a lock and Gordon is pretty much a lock if he can stay out of trouble which leaves DT on the outside looking in as far as I am concerned.

Berrios isn't anything at the NFL level right now, slot or otherwise.

 

[Ring 6]

Or he catches the Foxboro flu that Berrios had last year.

There is no Foxboro flu.

Harris is a veteran who isn’t going to sit out while healthy so the patriots can figure out whether they need him later.
Unless he is definitely out long term he would ask did his release and sign somewhere else.

 

[203Pat]

Meyers is a much better slot prospect than Berrios, IMO. If a receiver is going to make this roster based on having a different skillset than the rest of the WRs, I'd expect it to be Dorsett.

I think Meyers barring anything crazy is as close to lock as possible for an UDFA. To me it becomes a numbers game after Edelman, Harry, Gordon, Meyers, and Dorsett. I think it's between Berrios, Harris, and DT fot the final spot. Harris has faded after stating off strong and I think DT really needs to show something after missing everything up until yesterday. Berrios special teams ability is what sneaks him onto the roster. That being said I wouldn't be surprised it he ends up cut once or twice throughout the season.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

this Team carrys One TE Matt LaCosse with the Ben Watson Four game exception?? Really having a hard time seeing two right now. I think Ryan Izzo is just too limited also Eric Saubert is a work

Not sure, but you are definitely the only one using the secret bold/italics coding system.

I think the key is in the number of consonants between the bolds. But the double question mark might change things up - that one has me puzzled still.

 

[patchick]

Or he catches the Foxboro flu that Berrios had last year.

Berrios was injured for most of the 2018 camp and wasn't even able to suit up for the last three preseason games. There is no Foxboro flu.

 

[203Pat]

There is no Foxboro flu.

Harris is a veteran who isn’t going to sit out while healthy so the patriots can figure out whether they need him later.
Unless he is definitely out long term he would ask did his release and sign somewhere else.

I don't think he goes to IR either unless he has a legitimate injury. Usually only rookies and young promising UDFA seem to catch the Foxboro Flu.

 

[203Pat]

Berrios was injured for most of the 2018 camp and wasn't even able to suit up for the last three preseason games. There is no Foxboro flu.

Thats right I forgot, the Patriots have never stashed anyone on IR they didn't want on the 53 but didn't want to lose.

 

[patchick]

Thats right I forgot, the Patriots have never stashed anyone on IR they didn't want on the 53 but didn't want to lose.

Indeed, they have not.

Name all the promising rookies who seemed to be healthy and on the roster bubble who suddenly ended up on IR on cutdown day, then came back to play a significant role with the team the next year. Heck name even one.

Being unable to practice with the team is the worst thing you could do to a rookie.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think he goes to IR either unless he has a legitimate injury. Usually only rookies and young promising UDFA seem to catch the Foxboro Flu.

There is no Foxboro flu. There is no reason for it, it’s not legal and it just doesn’t happen.
I think it started up as an urban legend because people incorrectly believe you have to be injured enough to miss the whole season to go on IR when in fact you just have to be injured enough that your season will be wrecked, which could be a month for a young player still learning the system

 

[jah]

Thats right I forgot, the Patriots have never stashed anyone on IR they didn't want on the 53 but didn't want to lose.

Doesn't this whole argument trace back to you thinking Berrios deserves a roster spot?

 

[203Pat]

Indeed, they have not.

Name all the promising rookies who seemed to be healthy and on the roster bubble who suddenly ended up on IR on cutdown day, then came back to play a significant role with the team the next year. Heck name even one.

Being unable to practice with the team is the worst thing you could do to a rookie.

I'm not saying they're stashing potential All-Pros on IR. I am saying they're stashing rookies they drafted who they want to keep but know there's a solid chance if they're released they end up getting claimed. Christian Sam was one last year who had a mysterious injury come cut down day, same thing with Ryan Izzo a day later with an ankle sprain. Keionta Davis the year before headed to IR on cut down day.
I guess it is just coincidence that these rookies end up with season ending injuries come cut downy every year.

 

[203Pat]

Doesn't this whole argument trace back to you thinking Berrios deserves a roster spot?

I don't know how a simple guess at the receiving group on the 53 turned into campaigning for Berrios. By no means do I think he deserves anything, I just don't think as much of DT's chances as a lot of the board does which for me makes it a numbers game with Berrios's punt return ability sneaking him on. Obviously I am just guessing and I have said in my other posts that Berrios could still be cut after making the 53 based on other players in the league becoming available.

 

[203Pat]

There is no Foxboro flu. There is no reason for it, it’s not legal and it just doesn’t happen.
I think it started up as an urban legend because people incorrectly believe you have to be injured enough to miss the whole season to go on IR when in fact you just have to be injured enough that your season will be wrecked, which could be a month for a young player still learning the system

Yes because the rules never get broken...

The thing about IR is you actually have to have a "major" injury.

Injured Reserve (IR) List, Injured Reserve with Return Designation
If the team decides to place a player on injured reserve, it must be a major injury. The NFL defines major injury as an injury that renders the player unable to practice or play football for at least six weeks — or 42 calendar days — from the date of injury.

The NFL and the NFL Players Association agreed to a short-term IR rule change which took effect in 2012. The change allowed one player (per team) to be activated from the IR list, and has since been changed so each team can return up to two players during the season. Additionally, teams originally had to declare a player as return eligible when placed on IR. They no longer have to declare a person eligible to return when they first go on IR. Before the enactment of this rule, any player that was placed on the IR list was not eligible to play again for the same team in that season (regular season and postseason).

 

[Sicilian]

Yes because the rules never get broken...

The thing about IR is you actually have to have a "major" injury.

Injured Reserve (IR) List, Injured Reserve with Return Designation
If the team decides to place a player on injured reserve, it must be a major injury. The NFL defines major injury as an injury that renders the player unable to practice or play football for at least six weeks — or 42 calendar days — from the date of injury.

The NFL and the NFL Players Association agreed to a short-term IR rule change which took effect in 2012. The change allowed one player (per team) to be activated from the IR list, and has since been changed so each team can return up to two players during the season. Additionally, teams originally had to declare a player as return eligible when placed on IR. They no longer have to declare a person eligible to return when they first go on IR. Before the enactment of this rule, any player that was placed on the IR list was not eligible to play again for the same team in that season (regular season and postseason).

So in your scenario:

A) The team wants to keep a rookie, but doesn't care if he gets to practice and get better. They just want to try again next year.

B) The rookie is fine with this, even though they are healthy enough to try to latch on with another team.

C) The rookie is NOT injured for six weeks, and yet the league (which as we all know would NEVER ding the Patriots for a minor infraction), simply allows the rookie to be placed on IR anyway since no one cares?

 

[patchick]

I'm not saying they're stashing potential All-Pros on IR. I am saying they're stashing rookies they drafted who they want to keep but know there's a solid chance if they're released they end up getting claimed. Christian Sam was one last year who had a mysterious injury come cut down day, same thing with Ryan Izzo a day later with an ankle sprain. Keionta Davis the year before headed to IR on cut down day.
I guess it is just coincidence that these rookies end up with season ending injuries come cut downy every year.

I think that you're remembering a lot of injuries as more mysterious than they really were at the time. E.g. Sam and Berrios were both injured for most of TC last year, to the point where the team couldn't make any kind of reasonable evaluation of them. Keionta Davis was an injury signing to begin with -- he went undrafted due to a back injury and needed a season to get healthy. That's not "stashing," it's just the way IR works for every single team in the league.

EDIT: I should mention the reason why the phrase "Foxboro Flu" bothers me so much. It's because it suggests that the Patriots--unlike other teams--routinely flout the IR rules. It's yet another false "Patriots are cheaters!!" narrative, only this one perpetuated by Patriots fans.

 

[50-yard-line]

Not being able to differentiate a slot receiver from an outside receiver takes a special kid of poster. Berrios and Thomas do not play the same position. Berrios is almost exclusively a slot receiver while DT has played the majority of his career on the outside. There is a redundancy with Harry, Gordon, and DT at this point. They have similar skillsets and we know Harry is a lock and Gordon is pretty much a lock if he can stay out of trouble which leaves DT on the outside looking in as far as I am concerned.

DT might well go to the slot (see Anquan Bolden) and Meyers can play the slot as well.

 

[203Pat]

So in your scenario:

A) The team wants to keep a rookie, but doesn't care if he gets to practice and get better. They just want to try again next year.

While they may not be able to practice they are able to learn the playbook and spend time around the team.

B) The rookie is fine with this, even though they are healthy enough to try to latch on with another team.

So they would turn down a full year at a few hundred thousand dollars to hopefully catch on with another team that in all likelihood they will end up on the practice squad making a few thousand a week and can be cut at any time?

C) The rookie is NOT injured for six weeks, and yet the league (which as we all know would NEVER ding the Patriots for a minor infraction), simply allows the rookie to be placed on IR anyway since no one cares?

I am not saying that only the Patriots do this and I know Patriots fans have this persecution complex but the league isn't always out to get us. They look into IR violations for us they have to do it with every team in the league. They have to spend time and resources into something that happens all the time. We saw Antonio Brown end up on the injury report in week 17 last year when we now know he wasn't injured.

Take a look at this article about Berrios and how last year on IR was tough but he felt it had some benefits.

"I’ve never had to watch football for the most part. It was obviously tough in that aspect. I reached out and figured out the healthy ways to deal with it and the ways to be productive with it so that when I could come back on the field I was a better football player even though I hadn’t touched the field yet," Berrios said.

"It was really all the intangible things that you have to go through a full year to understand. The head spins a lot slower now that I’ve been around it for a year. That was a huge part of that year. Now that I get this opportunity again, it wasn’t like I was on day one."

Berrios looks to catch on in year two

 

[Sicilian]

DT might well go to the slot (see Anquan Bolden) and Meyers can play the slot as well.

I'd be surprised to see Thomas in the slot, but I also think we shouldn't put 100% emphasis on labels like that anyway. The slot WR position is typically inside, but regular wideouts play inside the hash marks as well, Edelman does a lot of work on the perimeter, and there are lots of formations that kind of blur the line.

 

[BradytoMosstoGronk]

Not sold on Berrios making the 53 man. I think he'd need to borrow whatever farm animal photos of Bill that Jake Bequette had to keep making the cut.

 

[mgteich]

Excluding first round picks, rookies who are placed on IR before the cut almost never are contributors on the patriots. Flowers was put on IR after the first game, might be considered an exception.

So in your scenario:

A) The team wants to keep a rookie, but doesn't care if he gets to practice and get better. They just want to try again next year.

B) The rookie is fine with this, even though they are healthy enough to try to latch on with another team.

C) The rookie is NOT injured for six weeks, and yet the league (which as we all know would NEVER ding the Patriots for a minor infraction), simply allows the rookie to be placed on IR anyway since no one cares?