PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?


Status
Not open for further replies.
Why would I admit I am wrong? I didn’t say they were. You said they weren’t, I asked if you could help me find the story because I was interested in learning about it and you cane back when TMZ said.
I’m right that you don’t know. I dont either.
If you get lucky and are right I’ll give you a thumbs up, but it wouldn’t mean I am wrong because I didn’t say they were involved. Because I don’t know.

You should admit your wrong because you are actually wrong. This is not Venezuela
 
That is not even close to being true regarding the NFL and Elliott.

Here is the NFL's statement on Elliot's suspension:

In a letter to Elliott advising him of the decision, Todd Jones, the NFL's Special Counsel for Conduct, said these advisors "were of the view that there is substantial and persuasive evidence supporting a finding that [Elliott] engaged in physical violence against Ms. Thompson on multiple occasions during the week of July 16, 2016."

After reviewing the record, and having considered the views of the independent advisors, the commissioner determined that the credible evidence established that Elliott engaged in conduct that violated NFL policy.

NFL suspends Cowboys RB Ezekiel Elliott 6 games

You should know by now that what Goodell and his henchmen decide doesn’t equal the truth or the facts. Kia Roberts was the NFL’s lead investigator and the only one who interviewed Elliot’s accuser and she said the claims weren’t credible and recommended no discipline. Goodell and his Ted Wells/ Troy Vincent clones were just doing what he wanted.
 
You should know by now that what Goodell and his henchmen decide doesn’t equal the truth or the facts. Kia Roberts was the NFL’s lead investigator and the only one who interviewed Elliot’s accuser and she said the claims weren’t credible and recommended no discipline. Goodell and his Ted Wells/ Troy Vincent clones were just doing what he wanted.

Yes, because women who've been physically abused never lie to protect the man. It was all a big conspiracy by Goodell and his henchmen.

Dear god.

In any event, your statement that the NFL found no wrongdoing on Elliot's part was patently false. They clearly did.
 
I have dealt with these cases for over 10 years in federal court, and have never seen an anti-trafficking approach that targets the end users in investigations. That is the equivalent of trying to take down the Chapos in drug trafficking by arresting and publicizing the arrests of drug users/possessors at the street level. You might claim some incidental end user deterrent (take out the demand by targeting end users, kill the business profits and then the business), but I believe we have established through rising crime rates that the approach is not generally effective in trafficking type offenses (drug, human, alien, etc.).

In trafficking generally, that approach would alert the leader/organizers at every level to active law enforcement interest (we may assume they are not in custody because they aren't morons). Add to that the end users likely face small punishments, are unlikely to know anything of the actual operation, and even if they have some knowledge are unlikely to snitch and face possible violent reprisal given the risk/reward calculus for a trivial offense.

Law enforcement/prosecutors can make use of the low level leaders and organizers in human trafficking activities. Charges having as elements coercion or threats tend to carry serious prison time in federal court, and defendants will possibly inform on the organization to save themselves. These operations are frequently interstate or international, so the odds of some local operation successfully conducting that type of investigation is small at best. The odds of someone cooperating when local clowns go public is about zero, as twenty years of prison time is better than 5 minutes on the street before the unknowns of the international operation take you out as they will be watching the public proceedings and sentencing (i.e., extremely lenient sentence means snitch).

Local cops take down brothels all the time. Those are frequently RICO-type cases (forfeiture and higher sentences) because of the illegal proceeds/activity controlled through an organized structure rather than, for example, the independent street walker. Brothels, when populated by prostitutes who voluntarily join and participate in the operation, do not implicate human trafficking by definition.

Victims will testify in trafficking cases. In the international cases, the incentive is lawful status here (U-visas). In interstate cases, the feds will take every named defendant down and send them away for a long time, so the threat is eliminated to the witnesses. Federal indictments generally stay sealed until the majority or all of the co-conspirators are arrested, with pretrial release a statistical unlikelihood.


Interesting stuff. Thanks.

Some questions for you.

You say victims will testify but I've read numerous times that they often don't for fear of repercussions to them or their families living back home in Asia. So how often have you seen the women working in brothels testify?

Ex-FBI Agent: Robert Kraft Case in Florida Reminds Me of Our Ann Arbor Investigation

The working girls were in almost all cases uncooperative with law enforcement and could not be relied upon as potential witnesses.

Do you see any evidence of the LE overstepping their bounds? To me it seems they were justified in their suspicions of a human trafficking case and therefore justified getting a warrant for human trafficking. Is installing cameras under those grounds an overreach?

Based on your post it does seem like the Palm Beach LE went about it the wrong way if they were trying to crack down on a human trafficking ring but that doesn't mean they went about it illegally imo.

Thanks again.
 
Yes, because women who've been physically abused never lie to protect the man. It was all a big conspiracy by Goodell and his henchmen.

Dear god.

In any event, your statement that the NFL found no wrongdoing on Elliot's part was patently false. They clearly did.

Who the f* ck ever said that? I certainly didn’t. I said their lead investigator, a woman, who was the only one to interview her, didn’t believe her and recommended no discipline. Those are facts, if you don’t like them that’s tough sh.t. Pretending that makes me a supporter of domestic violence is complete bullsh.t. Go f*ck yourself.
 
You should know by now that what Goodell and his henchmen decide doesn’t equal the truth or the facts. Kia Roberts was the NFL’s lead investigator and the only one who interviewed Elliot’s accuser and she said the claims weren’t credible and recommended no discipline. Goodell and his Ted Wells/ Troy Vincent clones were just doing what he wanted.

If anyone believes even a fart coming from Goodell is genuine, they should be sent to island far away where they will die from drinking from the can marked poison instead of from the distilled water tank.
 
If anyone believes even a fart coming from Goodell is genuine, they should be sent to island far away where they will die from drinking from the can marked poison instead of from the distilled water tank.

I believe Goodell got it wrong on Deflategate, but that does not, by extension, make Goodell wrong about every other matter he touches.
 
He hopes to regain confidence through his actions. HeeHee.
 
221 pages of discussing Bob Kraft's pecker ... :eek:
Malcolm Butler is nervous this thread will surpass his mega thread for most replies all time.
 
They lived and worked in the spas. Ok they weren't chained to their beds but damn.

Kraft is defending his legacy, his name etc... which is his right to do. But he is also potentially blowing up an investigation into human trafficking by hiring top dollar lawyers to clear his name which is just sad and pathetic.
Tony, there was no trafficking at that spa, so we need to drop that false narrative. His name can’t get tied into something that didn’t happen.

The key is, they had the choice to work there or somewhere else. The owner is Chinese, so that helps communication wise
 
Why would I admit I am wrong? I didn’t say they were. You said they weren’t, I asked if you could help me find the story because I was interested in learning about it and you cane back when TMZ said.
I’m right that you don’t know. I dont either.
If you get lucky and are right I’ll give you a thumbs up, but it wouldn’t mean I am wrong because I didn’t say they were involved. Because I don’t know.
Neither you nor I care who is right. No one comes to this board to win or lose

That’s what children do, not adults
 
Robert Kraft releases statement amid solicitation charges: 'I am truly sorry'


“I am truly sorry. I know I have hurt and disappointed my family, my close friends, my co-workers, our fan and many others who rightfully hold me to a higher standard.

“Throughout my life, I have always tried to do the right thing. The last think I would ever want to do is disrespect another human being. I have extraordinary respect for women; my morals and my should were shaped by the most wonderful woman, the love of my life, who I was blessed to have as a partner for 50 years.

“As I move forward, I hope to continue to use the platform with which I have been blessed to help others and to try to make a difference. I expect to be judged not by my words but by my actions. And through those actions, I hope to regain your confidence and your respect.”
 
Tony, there was no trafficking at that spa, so we need to drop that false narrative. His name can’t get tied into something that didn’t happen.

The key is, they had the choice to work there or somewhere else. The owner is Chinese, so that helps communication wise

I'm not trying to tie Kraft's name to human trafficking. I apologize if it sounded that way.

I think the Palm Beach LE was justified getting warrant to investigate the spa for possible involvement with human trafficking. During that investigation Kraft got caught doing something illegal.
 
I'm not trying to tying Kraft's name to human trafficking. I apologize if it sounded that way.

I think the Palm Beach LE was justified getting warrant to investigate the spa for possible involvement with human trafficking. During that investigation Kraft got caught doing something illegal.
They may have been, but the time Kraft went there, they knew there wasn’t any. Which is why I believe a judge will decide the police misused their authority videotaping handjobs.

That’s a gross misuse of power granted by the judge that gave them the right to use videotape for human trafficking purposes
 
I'm not sure this statement helps Kraft, from a PR standpoint.
 
So Kraft basically admits guilt - I wonder if he'll take the deal now. He must be terrified of that video getting out.
 
But that link you posted regarding the Ann Arbor bust indicates that the Palm Beach LE department were right to be suspicious of a human trafficking issue and hence the warrant. Or not?
Maybe but you didn't need the videos to prove human trafficking. They took the easy way out, from the article:

"the spas could be shut like speakeasies of the prohibition era, but to have any lasting impact the owners had to be identified and prosecuted. It was relatively easy to show there was prostitution occurring in these spas, the trick was to prove the owners had knowledge of prostitution and profiting from it.

In the recent Florida case, the authorities are prosecuting the Johns for solicitation of prostitution including Robert Kraft. They obtained evidence of prostitution using surreptitiously placed video cameras. Although prosecuting Johns may be a deterrent, I think a better long-term solution would be to prosecute the owners/purveyors and institute forfeiture of the assets attributable to the spas. I’m not sure they have the evidence to do that."

So they didn't do anything to go after the owners and create a human trafficking case, instead simply shutting down the prostitution. To obtain a "rare" warrant just to close down the spa and catch some johns seems like an enormous waste of resources, nvm about the disingenuous use of human trafficking narrative to sensationalize the arrests. Now they are being called out for the lack of human trafficking charges.

Simple question: do you think the judge would have granted the sneak and peak warrant for a simple prostitution case?
 
So Kraft basically admits guilt - I wonder if he'll take the deal now. He must be terrified of that video getting out.

Or maybe, he is sincerely sorry for acting in a way that brought shame to everyone and everything in his life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Wednesday Patriots Notebook 5/1: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Jerod Mayo’s Appearance on WEEI On Monday
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/30: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Drake Maye’s Interview on WEEI on Jones & Mego with Arcand
MORSE: Rookie Camp Invitees and Draft Notes
Patriots Get Extension Done with Barmore
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/29: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-28, Draft Notes On Every Draft Pick
MORSE: A Closer Look at the Patriots Undrafted Free Agents
Five Thoughts on the Patriots Draft Picks: Overall, Wolf Played it Safe
Back
Top