Draft measurements during the Belichick regime (and assorted stats that may interest only me)

[WaterfallJumper]

Apparently I can't use HTML to create a table, so I took a screenshot. I'll consider creating a Google spreadsheet instead with the information for each position, if this is useful to people to quickly review the Patriots history and tendencies. It seems that we don't care about size that much, but speed and quickness are prioritized. Overall, it's a dismal list with a few excellent contributors. Tomorrow I'll dig into this draft class and we can see who might be a fit, given past considerations.

Obviously, there's more to evaluation than testing results, but it's interesting to crunch numbers.

EDIT: I created a Google Spreadsheet here: Patriots positional draft numbers. I've only done WR and DL for now. I may update as I have time, but it's a bit of a laborious process.

 

[sircole]

Great work reamer.

Just from a quick glance at your list, the most successful WRs drafted by us, Branch and Edelman, have great 3-cone and short shuttle times...with times lower than 7 secs. in the 3-cone and 4 secs. in the short shuttle, respectively.

 

[sircole]

WR Cody Thompson might be worth a late round draft pick for developmental purposes in our training camp since his 3-cone and short shuttle times are close to Branch and Edelman.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

WR Cody Thompson might be worth a late round draft pick for developmental purposes in our training camp since his 3-cone and short shuttle times are close to Branch and Edelman.

Yup, good call! He's one of a handful who fit the preferred profile and who shows some skill on tape (good hands, YAC, special teams), but I wouldn't expect him too early. Bisi Johnson is another ballpark hit by the numbers, but I didn't really like his tape. Maybe I'll give him another try.

I will say that we seem to not care about agility times for larger players -- and I'd suggest that Dobson didn't fail because of his 3cone time, but rather due to attitude and injuries. Watch the video of his rookie year targets, and he created plenty of separation before he got hurt. After that he didn't seem to have the drive to compete and improve, which is why he never caught on with other teams desperate for receiver help.

I'll post more comprehensive thoughts when I'm in the office later and have time at a desk.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Added a link to the spreadsheet I made to the OP. It's incomplete, but I'll try to update it as I have time over the next few weeks. I can add more details (arm length, hand size, etc) if requested. I may also link to college stats so we can view production.

 

[DH523]

One thing that caught my eye was how many of them were 200+ pounds (outside of a few within 5 pounds) who all consistently had fast 10 yard splits of 1.55-1.58 range. Especially notable given the variety of 40 yard dash times is the emphasis on quickly getting off the line to speak.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

@long distance @ChrisR2223

You may find this draft thread interesting, since I'm starting with WRs.

Another Boykin clip below, as a continuation of my discussion here: Official 2019 free agency watch thread

I'd really like to see him show more strength at the catch point. Here he finally runs a hitch or curl route, and gains adequate separation, but he's got to be more aware that he's about to get hit. He doesn't really secure the ball or show strong hands in these situation, and it's aggravating given his physical gifts.



Honestly, I do think he has potential. His stalk blocks are great, and he's got every physical tool he needs to become a top tier player. The problem I have is that he hasn't progressed mentally at the position since last year (or if he has, it's through Xs & Os understanding, and not route running and body positioning). The good news? I think it's all fixable. Determining what that's worth to the Patriots in terms of draft capital, however, is another story.

Any requests for player breakdowns? I'm going over receivers now, so I'd be happy to add to the list. Next up for me are Emanuel Hall and Gary Jennings. I'd love to see those guys here.

 

[TB_Helmet]

I know Wonderlic is overrated as a metric for predicting football intelligence, but still might be worth adding here if available, especially at this position.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I know Wonderlic is overrated as a metric for predicting football intelligence, but still might be worth adding here if available, especially at this position.

I'll see what I can scrounge up. Most of the databases I've been referencing don't include Wonderlic, so I'd have to manually search for and input those values, and oftentimes the scores aren't readily available. If anyone wants to do the legwork then I'd be happy to update with the information, but I'm not sure I have the time.

 

[sircole]

Any requests for player breakdowns?

I want your opinion on WR Jakobi Myers. He is not the quickest or fastest prospect, but I'm actually impressed with his savviness in finding space in zones, jump-ball ability, toughness going over the middle and soft hands.

He's an ex-QB and hasn't been a receiver long, but I think it wouldn't be wrong projecting him to continue improving his route running and gaining new nuances at the position with more experience with the progress he has made so far.

With his height, he could be a potential mismatch advantage from the slot position.

 

[JerseyShore99]

I love the Boykin-Galloday comp

Been following Boykin since last Bowl season, big presence with underrated athleticism...Be crucial on 3rd down and in the RZ

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I want your opinion on WR Jakobi Myers. He is not the quickest or fastest prospect, but I'm actually impressed with his savviness in finding space in zones, jump-ball ability, toughness going over the middle and soft hands.

He's an ex-QB and hasn't been a receiver long, but I think it wouldn't be wrong projecting him to continue improving his route running and gaining new nuances at the position with more experience with the progress he has made so far.

With his height, he could be a potential mismatch advantage from the slot position.

Will add to the list along with Slayton. So far, the plan is to look at these four next week:

Emanuel Hall
Darius Slayton
Jakobi Myers
Gary Jennings

EDIT 2: Draft Network taking my guys: 3 Wide Receiver Targets For The Giants In NFL Draft | The Draft Network

EDIT: This is one of the reasons I'm so intrigued by Hall, despite his small route tree and some issues with drops. He's possibly the best vertical threat this draft:

 

[captain stone]

...I will say that we seem to not care about agility times for larger players -- and I'd suggest that Dobson didn't fail because of his 3cone time, but rather due to attitude and injuries. Watch the video of his rookie year targets, and he created plenty of separation before he got hurt. After that he didn't seem to have the drive to compete and improve, which is why he never caught on with other teams desperate for receiver help...

Not only was Dropson soft as Charmin, he also had Braxton Barrio-sized hands. Bad combination.

Hmmm, I wonder if Keenan Allen could've helped us in the 2013 & 2015 AFCCs...

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Not only was Dropson soft as Charmin, he also had Braxton Barrio-sized hands. Bad combination.

Hmmm, I wonder if Keenan Allen could've helped us in the 2013 & 2015 AFCCs...

No question that Allen developed far better. I don't think the small hands matters that much, though; some databases I've seen listed him at 9" and others at 9 1/2. Let's look around the league at some hand sizes in that range: Antonio Brown: 9" hands. Amendola: 9 3/8 hands and incredibly clutch catches. Successful receiver TY Hilton: 8 1/2 hands. LaFell had some terrific catches in his one good year here: 8 3/4 hands. Moss "only" had 9 5/8 hands.

Hold up your fingers half an inch apart and ask yourself if you really think that makes or breaks the player. For Dobson, it was all between the ears, not the span between pinky and thumb.

 

[captain stone]

No question that Allen developed far better. I don't think the small hands matters that much, though; some databases I've seen listed him at 9" and others at 9 1/2. Let's look around the league at some hand sizes in that range: Antonio Brown: 9" hands. Amendola: 9 3/8 hands and incredibly clutch catches. Successful receiver TY Hilton: 8 1/2 hands. LaFell had some terrific catches in his one good year here: 8 3/4 hands. Moss "only" had 9 5/8 hands.

Hold up your fingers half an inch apart and ask yourself if you really think that makes or breaks the player. For Dobson, it was all between the ears, not the span between pinky and thumb.

Don't remember the source, but I've seen Dropson's hand size listed as small as 8".

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Don't remember the source, but I've seen Dropson's hand size listed as small as 8".

Interesting. I'm having trouble finding it, but his hands were on the smaller side. I still think he was just not motivated or disciplined enough to succeed, but details help.

RAS has him at 9.5, but that's the only place I could find that measurement.

This Steelers draft site, which is generally pretty good, has him at a little over 9: NFL Combine 2013: Wide receiver measurements

One of my go to sites has him at 9: Aaron Dobson - MockDraftable

 

[sircole]

The member, lowfbig, on another Pats' fan forum has made some charts with past Pats' WRs and prospects from the upcoming draft based on:

• pSPARQ
• 3-cone
• Short Shuttle

pSPARQ


3-cone


Short Shuttle


Horizontal colors:
Blue = Patriots players they have, had, worked with in some capacity(practice squad etc), tried to get their hands on.
Pink = Some of the more well known names in this 2019 draft

Vertical colors:
Red = red flag testing score for that drill - below average, below where you ideally would like
Orange = average testing score for that drill
Yellow = above average testing score for that drill
Green = Elite testing range score for that drill

He also has charts like this for DT, DE and TE, but this is a WR thread.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

The member, lowfbig, on another Pats' fan forum has made some charts with past Pats' WRs and prospects from the upcoming draft based on:

• pSPARQ
• 3-cone
• Short Shuttle

pSPARQ
View attachment 22852

3-cone
View attachment 22853

Short Shuttle
View attachment 22854

Horizontal colors:
Blue = Patriots players they have, had, worked with in some capacity(practice squad etc), tried to get their hands on.
Pink = Some of the more well known names in this 2019 draft

Vertical colors:
Red = red flag testing score for that drill - below average, below where you ideally would like
Orange = average testing score for that drill
Yellow = above average testing score for that drill
Green = Elite testing range score for that drill

He also has charts like this for DT, DE and TE, but this is a WR thread.

Nice! I think I'll close up shop and just read these, since they're way more comprehensive.

I'll probably transition into some tape breakdowns, anyway. I should have more time tomorrow.

 

[sircole]

Some notes lowfbig found:

Although the Patriots absolutely look at the 3 cone times which will be obvious when you look at the graphic sorted by 3 Cone times, the shuttle time sort seemed to bring up the largest group/cluster of WR's who have had success in the NFL(I did that against the full set of data, 1500+ WR's, to come to that conclusion).

Since 2000 - Here is the list of players the Patriots have gotten or tried to get their hands on that had BOTH a 3C time <= 6.96 AND a SS time of <= 4.10

* Jeff Maehl
* TJ Moe
* Anthony Gonzalas
* Emmanuel Sanders
* Greg Salas
* Josh Boyce
* Bruce Ellington
* OBJ
* Blair White
* Deion Branch
* Chad Jackson
* DJ Foster
* Brandin Cooks
* Julian Edelman
* Jabar Gaffney
* Devin Street
* Sammie Coates
* Austin Carr

The ONLY two WRs in the 2019 draft class that were at the combine and fit the criteria are Cody Thompson and Miles Boykin.

 

[Bourne Again Christian]

Some notes lowfbig found:

My binkie Boykin