2019 NE CAP SPACE

[Sciz]

OK, Here is a theory Cousins. I will get booed for this but that is the way it is. $9.5mm is WAY TOO MUCH for 32 year old Safety. $13.45mm is his cost. We save the $9.5mm if we cut or trade DM. Great player in his prime but he has slipped. His brother out played him down the stretch. Is that a fair statement?

He either takes a hair cut or he is no different than Lawyer Milloy who was only 29 when he was asked to him to take a cut. Replaced by the 31 year old Harrison. No time for BB to get sentimental.

Harmon is at the ready to replace him and they used Jones as a Safety in the Super Bowl. DM is a great veteran . a Captain and good player but not elite or irreplaceable. Last year on the contract as well. Flores will come get him (or Patricia)

I think you’d get more response to your McCourty proposal if you hadn’t been calling him mediocre for three years already. There’s a “boy who cried wolf” effect going on. Have you considered that he may just be a really good and valuable player?

 

[DW Toys]

I think you’d get more response to your McCourty proposal if you hadn’t been calling him mediocre for three years already. There’s a “boy who cried wolf” effect going on. Have you considered that he may just be a really good and valuable player?

Yes I did.
I thought about it and talked myself out of it. He is ....O.K. he's not a $13mm Safety. I haven't flip flopped. He's always been an O.K. Safety but his dollars now are not worth it. His brother outplayed him down the stretch. Would you cut a check for $13mm for him?

I don't have all the answers. If you have to sacrifice one player to get perhaps three to fill some holes? What is your idea? He's the third largest CAP on the Team. He's $2mm over Gronk!!!

I understand Captain and Team leader, beloved and all that, but so was Milloy. Is that a fair statement? Milloy was 29 and DM is 32.

I get it, he is good (I say decent). We are paying him over Earl Thomas money. Eric Weddle just got two years for $10mm. Is McCourty worth over double of Weddle? If you could sign Berry (if healthy when checked) and another couple of fairly priced veterans for DM would you?
DW Toys

 

[ralmat55]

For clarification, the only opinion being given regarding whether Brady can be extended or not before August is Primetime’s not Greg Bedard’s.

Bedard did not share his opinion that it can’t be done until August. He passed along his reporting that those “most involved” in the Brady talks don’t believe it can be completed before August because of the restructure done before the start of last season. That’s a huge distinction that Primetime just keeps ignoring.

Until shown otherwise, I’ll go with the opinion of Tom Brady, Don Yee, Jonathan Kraft, Nick Caserio, DeMaurice Smith, Bill Belichick or whoever is telling Bedard this rather than Primetime’s opinion.

 

[luuked]

OK, Here is a theory Cousins. I will get booed for this but that is the way it is. $9.5mm is WAY TOO MUCH for 32 year old Safety. $13.45mm is his cost. We save the $9.5mm if we cut or trade DM. Great player in his prime but he has slipped. His brother out played him down the stretch. Is that a fair statement?

No.

Harmon is at the ready to replace him and they used Jones as a Safety in the Super Bowl. DM is a great veteran . a Captain and good player but not elite or irreplaceable. Last year on the contract as well. Flores will come get him (or Patricia)

No.

Take the $9.5mm and transform it to a "prove it" on two year younger S Eric Berry, TE Tyler Eifert and the balance on WR Golden Tate. Three areas of attention.....done.

Yes, lets get rid of one of the cornerstones of this defense who is dependable, rarely injured, versatile and overall had a good season and replace him with 2 players who played almost no snaps at all in the last 2 years and Golden Tate. Genius.

Malcomb Brown was 39 tackles and no sacks. Bailey was 38 tackles and 6 sacks with the Chiefs

Completely different positions with one being a 2 down run stuffer and the other a interior pass rusher. But whatever.

You have to get both kickers signed, but can be replaced.

By who ?

 

[primetime]

For clarification, the only opinion being given regarding whether Brady can be extended or not before August is Primetime’s not Greg Bedard’s.

Bedard did not share his opinion that it can’t be done until August. He passed along his reporting that those “most involved” in the Brady talks don’t believe it can be completed before August because of the restructure done before the start of last season. That’s a huge distinction that Primetime just keeps ignoring.

Until shown otherwise, I’ll go with the opinion of Tom Brady, Don Yee, Jonathan Kraft, Nick Caserio, DeMaurice Smith, Bill Belichick or whoever is telling Bedard this rather than Primetime’s opinion.

I mean, my opinion is based on a read of the CBA, not vague unnamed sources cited by a sportswriter at a marginal publication, who are very likely absolutely none of the above people. The claim Bedard made simply isn't the case, regardless of whether it comes from Bedard himself or someone else. There's nothing in the CBA that prevents Brady's contract from being extended and current year salary being converted into a bonus. The only thing that cannot be done twice in a 12-month period is increasing a player's salary in the years currently covered by the contract (i.e. any extended years don't matter).

 

[long distance]

Here's Miguel plain and simple on 51 rule . how all new signings combined will have lesser cap hit than some expect (in other threads):

 

[long distance]

And this is how the contracts really look at the end.

The reported 2y/4.8M becomes 1.2M cap hit and 500K guaranteed..

Subtract the lowest top 51 contract that it replaces and this signing takes away just a little over 500K from 2019 cap space

Still, nice for LaCosse, seen obviously as one who can make the team although Pats have walked away from more..

 

[long distance]

And of course there's this..

 

[SBLIII]

And this is how the contracts really look at the end.

The reported 2y/4.8M becomes 1.2M cap hit and 500K guaranteed..

Subtract the lowest top 51 contract that it replaces and this signing takes away just a little over 500K from 2019 cap space

Still, nice for LaCosse, seen obviously as one who can make the team although Pats have walked away from more..

Hopefully TE3.

 

[long distance]

Hopefully TE3.

If Gronk stays like reportedly looks like this should indeed be the #3 move TE competition with Hollister and Anderson and for a #3 TE thats quite a competition.

Id expect they bring in one solid blocking TE vet to compete with Izzo and possibly another rookie, low pick or UDFA.

Id expect drafting #1 TE of the future.

 

[mgteich]

Hopefully TE3.

we have
#1 TE
#2 blocking TE
#3 backup receiving TE

So, yes LeCosse is competing with Hollister and Anderson for the #3 TE spot.

We should be asking how good a special teamer he is. That's was Hollister's value.

 

[venecol]

we have
#1 TE
#2 blocking TE
#3 backup receiving TE

So, yes LeCosse is competing with Hollister and Anderson for the #3 TE spot.

We should be asking how good a special teamer he is. That's was Hollister's value.

Who is #2 blocking TE?

 

[mgteich]

we have
#1 TE
#2 blocking TE
#3 backup receiving TE

So, yes LeCosse is competing with Hollister and Anderson for the #3 TE spot.

We should be asking how good a special teamer he is. That's was Hollister's value.

TBD; I think that as of now, it is Izzo.

5 things to know about Ryan Izzo, the Patriots' newest tight end | Boston.com

 

[ralmat55]

An update to my understanding as to whether Brady’s contract can be extended or not before August. Below is the section of the CBA which is in question:

Section 8. Renegotiations and Extensions:
(a) Provided that all Salary Cap requirements are met, Player Contracts for
current and future years may be renegotiated and/or extended except as follows:
(i) The contract of a Veteran Player may not be renegotiated to increase the Salary to be paid to the player during the original terms of the contract for a period of twelve months after the player’s most recent contract renegotiation.

There are two gray areas that make it iffy and are why, I believe, as reported by Greg Bedard, “most involved” in the discussions don’t believe the extension can be finalized until August.

Last August Brady had $4 million of LTBE incentives added which eventually were not earned. These are the two gray areas: 1. Can “salary” in Section 8 a 1 be argued to mean all increases in compensation including incentives? 2. Since the incentives were not earned do they still count as an increase in “salary”?

This is what I believe this boils down to: because this is the Patriots we’re talking about, the league office would not approve the contract applying the broader meaning of “salary” and saying the attempt to increase compensation with the unearned incentives is the same as actually increasing compensation.

Why open up that can of worms? Make cap space by other means as needed and extend Brady in August.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Just a word of caution for those asking for multiple extensions (though I do expect at least one). The Patriots are very calculating with how they push money forward, expressly to avoid bad contracts or dead money situations. Neat number here:

 

[luuked]

Just a word of caution for those asking for multiple extensions (though I do expect at least one). The Patriots are very calculating with how they push money forward, expressly to avoid bad contracts or dead money situations. Neat number here:

He should have waited a few hours with that tweet.

 

[Ring 6]

Posted this in the other thread but Bedard's understanding of the CBA is incorrect, and Brady could be extended (and his cap hit lowered) without issue even though his cap hit was already lowered once within a 12-month period. The only prohibition in the CBA is on raising a player's salary during the base years of a contract during a renegotiation more than once in a 12-month period.

The question is more whether they'd want to do this, given that it would push part of Brady's $27m 2019 cap hit ($14m of which is base salary) into future seasons. They could conceivably clear $10-12m or so with such an extension by pushing 2019 salary into bonus and prorating it across 2020 to whenever, but that creates complications down the road. I'm guessing they're holding off on extending Brady until they know what they want out of his contract -- whether they'll need the money this year or not, and if they do then how much.

To clear 12 million by extension and converting 14 mill to signing bonus they would need to extend 6 years.
But that assumes he gets no new signing bonus which of course isn’t going to happen.
Rumor was extending 3/100 with 50 guaranteed.
If the convert 14 of his 15 mill salary to Sb that reduces 2019 hit by (-14 + 14/4) 10.5 but his new Sb out of the 50 mill guarantee, say only 30 of it, adds back another 7.5. So you save 3 mill.
But then that means his 20-22 caps hits are 103 mill or 34.3.

 

[Ring 6]

Just a word of caution for those asking for multiple extensions (though I do expect at least one). The Patriots are very calculating with how they push money forward, expressly to avoid bad contracts or dead money situations. Neat number here:

They are loathe to do mass restructures or do them for players who are older or near the end of contracts. Those not named Brady at least.

 

[Ring 6]

[whispering] they still think of Gordon as an important part of the team

It’s not a choice it’s a formula.

 

[DW Toys]

No.



No.



Yes, lets get rid of one of the cornerstones of this defense who is dependable, rarely injured, versatile and overall had a good season and replace him with 2 players who played almost no snaps at all in the last 2 years and Golden Tate. Genius.



Completely different positions with one being a 2 down run stuffer and the other a interior pass rusher. But whatever.



By who ?

Great opinions. Respect your comments. We can certainly disagree on a $13mm contract for a Safety who is declining in my unworthy view, and how to ask him to take a paycut, or repeat a Lawyer Milloy and turn that money into perhaps better use? Didn't we all think Milloy was a cornerstone?

Eric Berry has had some injury issue (shin) and recovered from Hodgkin but is as good of a player. A much younger Tre Boston comes to mind.

DM needs to be about the same price as Weddle. Right now he is 2.5 times more $. Never said DM was a bad player for us. Just think us as fans over rate some of our own. Fill in the names of players you could use the money to go get. Mine were a suggestion.

Is DM really the third highest paid player on all of NE in worth? Higher than Gronk? .....I didn't think so.
DW Toys