Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I am stunned that Columbia University students are not yet up in arms protesting to change the name of their football field.

Most Columbia students don't realize that they even HAVE a football team, but still...

 

[ralmat55]

We have been through this many times. Kraft had many options other than accepting what is best for the 32.

I have a bad memory. What exactly were those options again? Seriously, just one would be appreciated and don’t say filing a lawsuit which would have been thrown out in ten seconds because Kraft along with the other 31 had agreed not to sue the NFL.

 

[maust]

Exactly. If they had won one or two of the SBs in 76, 85 and 96 its a completely different narrative pre BB/TB12

The truth being what it is makes the pre Kraft love for the team all the more impressive, even Kiam and Otis couldn't kill it

 

[Ring 6]

One of those posts is not like the other. You go from "This is just not true" when talking about hope to acknowledging "Whatever good feelings..." Those feelings for many of us could best be summed up by the word hope.

I added that because people fondly remember Bledsoe and are emotional about it.

You are actually telling people that felt that hope that they didn't, then acknowledging they did, lol. If you want to say the hope was unjustified, that would at least be a valid position.

I’m saying it’s revisionist history. There was as much hope and as much success surrounding this team from
83-88 the years Eason was here as from 93-99.

It most assuredly is true that for many of us the coming of the 'Bledsoe era' represented a hope that was not there before it. Winning and hope are not always synonymous, if you were in fact there you'd know they certainly weren't back then. The torch, such as it was, wasn't passed from Eason to Bledsoe. The eras, for want of a better word, are defined that way but in reality the worst of it was in the horrific span between them. Can't say I look forward to the next however many posts of your 'logic' justifying the opposing positions in your never ending need to engender argument then declare victory, if you were any good at it that would be a different story.

I’m saying there is no justification for having more Hope in the mid 90s as a patriot fan that the mid 80s.
You seem to think “Hope is in the eye of the beholder” means something other than it does.

Maybe we should cut to the chase and you should just go with a name calling personal attack again and get it over with now.

If you want to take that approach, I will respond in kind but I NEVER do that first. NEVER.

 

[Ring 6]

I have a bad memory. What exactly were those options again? Seriously, just one would be appreciated and don’t say filing a lawsuit which would have been thrown out in ten seconds because Kraft along with the other 31 had agreed not to sue the NFL.

I’ve already listed a number of them.
You can start with requesting a hearing to present a defense to appeal the punishment.
You could add accepting Brady’s request to testify in his behalf.
The list goes on.
In the absence of any effort whatsoever there is usually a long list of what wasn’t done.

 

[maust]

Posters cannot exclaim things like "pink hats who weren't here for the thin years" and then also have posters talking about how the Pats were a marquee franchise prior to BB/TB12.

To be clear I think as long as they aren't the same posters...
I detest it when Pats fans get lumped together as bandwagoners. For folks in your age group winning is practically a birthright, people shouldn't hate on you just because you're beautiful.

 

[Zuma]

Look. I love the history of this team. Grogs. Bledsoe. Gino. Tuna. Nance, etc but the fact is before BB/TB12 the team was 275-312, 7-10 in the playoffs and 0-2 in Super Bowls.

I understand your point but for some fans to think the NEP achieved some kind of marquee status as an NFL franchise is a bit homerish IMO.

If I'm a homer for believing the Patriots are the greatest NFL franchise of all time...then so be it.

 

[Drewski]

After the 2000 season, what franchises were worse than the Pats through their histories?

The Cardinals - 1 legit championship and 1 illegitimate championship in 81 seasons and no Super Bowl appearances

The Bucs - mentioned already in this thread, they defined losers and laughingstocks until Dungy came along

The Saints - they were just plain bad

Everyone else is debatable. What isn’t really debatable is that the Patriots looked a lot like the Cincinnati Bengals at that point. 2 Super Bowl appearances, a few other playoff seasons, a stretch of some horrid teams, and a few in between. Anyone who thinks the Pats were continual respected contenders prior to BB/Brady should also feel the same way about the Bengals.

Didn't see your post HoT and had mentioned the same in a reply to robertweathers.... the Bengals comp is dead on.
Regular Season Winning %
Pre BB/TB12 Pats - 46.8%
Bengals (Franchise History) - 45.3%

Playoff Winning %
Pre BB/TB12 Pats - 41.2%
Bengals (Franchise History) - 26.3%

SB Record
Pre BB/TB12 Pats - 0-2
Bengals (Franchise History) - 0-2

Ironically, I spent the first 8 years of my life in Cincy and no one there considers them a marque franchise. The fans know the suckitude.

 

[Drewski]

To be clear I think as long as they aren't the same posters...
I detest it when Pats fans get lumped together as bandwagoners. For folks in your age group winning is practically a birthright, people shouldn't hate on you just because your beautiful.

Correct - you can't both suck and be a marquee franchise at the same time.

As for the rest of your post, I didn't pick my birth year, but am damn appreciative of what I was able to experience as a Boston sports fan in my college/post college years.

The only leg up I have on anyone is the kids younger than me. I was old enough when the winning started to understand how precious it is. If I had the logic skills of a 4-15 year old during this run, I would be completely unprepared for when the music stops.

 

[Ring 6]

If I'm a homer for believing the Patriots are the greatest NFL franchise of all time...then so be it.

If you are saying they were by 2000 you are the biggest homer ever.
If you are saying they are now you have a very good argument

 

[maust]

I’m saying it’s revisionist history. There was as much hope and as much success surrounding this team from
83-88 the years Eason was here as from 93-99.

'Hope' such as it was around Eason flickered like a candle then was quickly snuffed out.

I’m saying there is no justification for having more Hope in the mid 90s as a patriot fan that the mid 80s.

There was a huge difference in the mid 90's hope, the Pats had become a professional organization. That the hope has also born fruit is undeniable.

If you want to take that approach, I will respond in kind but I NEVER do that first. NEVER.

How very disingenuous. I'd quote the post that proves the lie to that but you and I both know it was deleted or have you conveniently forgotten it?

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Foxboro and Gillette could be no more.

Gillette thinking about pulling out.

They reupped for 20 years in 2010 so there is 11 years left on it... Let the lawyers read the contract on early termination or liquidated damages and we'll see if they ride this one out....
Stadium to be called Gillette 2 more decades

 

[maust]

The only leg up I have on anyone is the kids younger than me. I was old enough when the winning started to understand how precious it is. If I had the logic skills of a 4-15 year old during this run, I would be completely unprepared for when the music stops.

You should see the looks I get from my grandsons when I tell them this too shall pass, that they should enjoy wallowing in the springtime but always know the truth, the Fall is coming and Winter is never far behind.

 

[signbabybrady]

They reupped for 20 years in 2010 so there is 11 years left on it... Let the lawyers read the contract on early termination or liquidated damages and we'll see if they ride this one out....
Stadium to be called Gillette 2 more decades

Is CMGI still around? Maybe they want the naming rights back.

 

[Drewski]

If you are saying they were by 2000 you are the biggest homer ever.
If you are saying they are now you have a very good argument

I would agree.

If you take the "Pre-2000 Pats" as one Franchise and the "BB/TB12 Pats" a second Franchise, the Pre-2000 Pats are a top 10 worst Franchise in history in terms of winning percentage.

 

[captain stone]

I’m not trying to bash Bledsoe, but he had nothing to do with this becoming the greatest franchise in the NFL unless you give him credit for getting injured so Brady could take over.

The late, lamented MoLewisRocks would've given him credit.

 

[Drewski]

You should see the looks I get from my grandsons when I tell them this too shall pass, that they should enjoy wallowing in the springtime but always know the truth, the Fall is coming and Winter is never far behind.

My Daughter will turn 5 in August, she was about 6 months old for SB49 - she refers to TB12 as simply The GOAT (I think she thinks he is a literally a farm animal who wears a helmet and steals the will of mere mortals like Mor'du in Brave).

Her life has been 4 SB appearances and 3 wins.....poor girl.

 

[Ring 6]

'Hope' such as it was around Eason flickered like a candle then was quickly snuffed out.

The team had lots of hope in 84,85,86.

There was a huge difference in the mid 90's hope, the Pats had become a professional organization. That the hope has also born fruit is undeniable.

We disagree.
The success under Belichick belongs to the coaches and players who earned it not the ones that came before and didn’t achieve it.

How very disingenuous. I'd quote the post that proves the lie to that but you and I both know it was deleted or have you conveniently forgotten it?

You are wrong, and I have never deleted a post since I have posted here.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I would like to know exactly what Kraft could have done? Owners aren't really in a position to hold up two middle fingers to the league and tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine. The league, with the Wells report, was obviously hellbent on hitting the Patriots. Kraft flailing his arms wasn't going to stop that.

We have been through this many times. Kraft had many options other than accepting what is best for the 32.

It’s not so much that he actually could have prevented the suspension. It’s just how cowardly and pathetic his surrender speech was. He went to the owner’s meeting talking big about how he would not be accepting the bunk report, then within 10 minutes of arriving he folded like a Dollar Store tent. Weird...he already had a prepared speech drawn up.

He didn’t even appeal the penalties!

He later admitted he was wrong, but he knew all along it was wrong. Even the admission that he made an error in accepting the punishment was clearly planned in advance. He accepted the punishment not out of an error in thinking but pure cowardice.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft: 'I was wrong to put my faith in the league'

READ: Brady's Profanity-Laced Response to Kraft Speech

Jerry Jones went nuclear on the league over Ezekiel Elliott’s suspension. A huge amount of people believe Elliott is innocent, or at least that the league is full of it, due to Jones stand.

 

[Ring 6]

I would agree.

If you take the "Pre-2000 Pats" as one Franchise and the "BB/TB12 Pats" a second Franchise, the Pre-2000 Pats are a top 10 worst Franchise in history in terms of winning percentage.

Exactly what I am saying