Kyle Brady vs. Graham

[JoeSixPat]

OK - I'll admit I've got a little chip on my shoulder on this one having been lambasted by so many for so long about my opinion of Daniel Graham - that while being a great blocker he was a disappointment as a 1st round pick - in as much as they/we expected him to be an excellent allaround TE - blocking AND pass catching and never really hit his full potential. Not that I didn't value a good blocking TE - its just that I don't prefer using a 1st round pick for such a role.

Recognizing its only 2 games - is anyone even missing Graham as a blocker?

My opinion is that Brady has been outstanding - having been on the field for a high percentage of the plays, and having played a big role in giving Brady all the time in the world to pass, and doing a decent job in blocking on running plays as well (though I can't help but feel like our 8th ranked running game is being helped by an incredibly prolific passing offense)

Even putting aside the fact that Graham was WAY too expensive on the FA market - do folks here feel like we've downgraded significantly with Brady on the field compared to Graham?

Frankly, I was expecting a degree of downgrade - which would be expected given the salary discrepancy between the two - but honestly I've not seen one... making the move to grab Brady early on (and give him a fair amount of money, though much much less than Graham) appear that much wiser.

I've got to say I also expected Graham to be more of an offensive presence for Denver given the amount of money they're shelling out for him... 4 passes caught at 8 yards a catch right now doesn't strike me as a wise salary cap expenditure for what he's getting paid.

 

[Fencer]

There only are two advantages to Graham if everybody is healthy:

1. Open on more kinds of pass routes, if he indeed is sent out on a route.
2. Therefore more scheming flexibility.

If there are injuries -- e.g., to Watson -- then the difference is more pronounced.

 

[Pats726]

I agree..THAT is the difference...Brady has been quiet receiving wise, but a great blocker..doing what he does best. When Thomas is better, that is when we will see a BIG difference in what a receiving TE can do. Brady is just fine..and I agree Denver overpaid for Graham..but that is OK...

 

[patsox23]

There only are two advantages to Graham if everybody is healthy:

1. Open on more kinds of pass routes, if he indeed is sent out on a route.
2. Therefore more scheming flexibility.

If there are injuries -- e.g., to Watson -- then the difference is more pronounced.

I agree, but also agree with the original thread-starter. Answering that question - does anyone miss Graham as a blocker? NO WAY. Not even close. Brady's better. (So far.)

 

[JoeSixPat]

There only are two advantages to Graham if everybody is healthy:

1. Open on more kinds of pass routes, if he indeed is sent out on a route.
2. Therefore more scheming flexibility.

If there are injuries -- e.g., to Watson -- then the difference is more pronounced.

I see your point (and I recognize you're not saying that the advantage is worth the $6 million a year he's getting) and see that the POTENTIAL for him being sent on a route is something DC's have to potentially plan for..

But isn't that advantage you point out alleviated by the fact that there are so many other receiving options right now?

Brady's on the field nearly every play - no one, rightfully so, expects him to have a pass thrown to him... and the routes couldn't be MORE open...

Meanwhile, how much more of a "threat" would Graham really be in scheming against DC's at 2 receptions a game and 8 YPC?

 

[maverick4]

JoeSP, I was with you on the original Graham debate, and I think the signing of K.Brady proves our original argument. A blocking tight end can be replaced by another tight end or a quick offensive tackle, for cheaper money than what Graham wanted. I don't see any drop off at the TE position with Graham gone now. I still wish we had traded him and gotten some value instead of just letting him go for nothing...

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

JoeSP, I was with you on the original Graham debate, and I think the signing of K.Brady proves our original argument. A blocking tight end can be replaced by another tight end or a quick offensive tackle, for cheaper money than what Graham wanted. I don't see any drop off at the TE position with Graham gone now. I still wish we had traded him and gotten some value instead of just letting him go for nothing...

What makes this statement true is that Grambo had two problems: spotty health and clunky hands.

Quite honestly, blocking TEs can be had for reasonable money. If Grambo caught the ball better, he WOULD have been offered more money by the Pats.

 

[patsox23]

isn't that advantage you point out alleviated by the fact that there are so many other receiving options right now?

GREEEEEAT point.

 

[Deus Irae]

The team looks better because of Randy Moss, Wes Welker and Donte Stallworth. Brady is a step down, and a large step down, from Graham, and that step down will likely continue to increase due to the age differences. However, Brady's strength is his blocking, so the fact that he's nowhere near the overall player that Graham is gets hidden since he's not being used as a receiver.

Here's a piece on how Graham is doing out in Denver:

Graham worth investment
Tight end earns Shanahan's praise after stellar efforts
By Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Launched: 09/18/2007 01:00:00 AM MDT


Daniel Graham's blocking skills key contribution. (Post / John Leyba)It's becoming clear why the Broncos broke the bank for Daniel Graham.

After two games, the former CU and Thomas Jefferson High School star has been a difference maker in the offense. Graham, who signed a five-year, $30 million contract during the offseason as a free agent from New England, has been a devastating blocker and a big reason why Travis Henry is the NFL's leading rusher.

Coach Mike Shanahan praised Graham for the second consecutive week Monday after his performance in the Broncos' 23-20 overtime win over Oakland.

"The unsung hero in this game was Daniel Graham," Shanahan said. "He dominated the line of scrimmage and gave us 60 minutes of unbelievable football."

 

[Fencer]

I was in the camp that really wanted to keep Grahambo.

But I'll concede the money was probably better spent elsewhere, on average.

 

[ClevTrev]

When you have no one comparable, Graham is the balls. I can understand why Shanny feels strongly about Graham.

When you have Watson and David Thomas, who will be New England's primary TE for quite a few years, Kyle Brady is gravy and can fill the void until Thomas is fully recovered. Then, with Watson, Thomas, and Brady, NE has a stable of TEs that makes any other team jealous. In this context, there is no step down, just forward. Thomas is going to be the guy in NE going forward and will prove to be a better receiver and an equal blocker to Graham.

Daniel who?

 

[spacecrime]

I was in the camp that really wanted to keep Grahambo.

But I'll concede the money was probably better spent elsewhere, on average.

I agree. Graham was an awesome blocker. Brady may be good, but I don't see him in Graham's class as a blocker.

Plus Graham was faster, and his running ability after the catch was great. Brady may be able to catch the wall, though he hasn't much in the last few years or two games, but he will never be the threat Graham was.

The advantage of Brady is that he is a very adequate blocker and costs about $3 mil less a year than Graham.

The added money for Graham is just not worth it from a team standpoint.

 

[Rob0729]

Graham was a far more complete TE than Brady is, but based on his first two performances, Brady is the best blocking TE we have ever had on this team. I know that two games isn't much of a sample, but he has been the unsung hero of the fact that our o-line is giving Tom Brady so much time to make plays.

 

[primetime]

Graham is a better blocker than Brady (possibly a better blocker than Light).

Graham is a better receiver than Watson (though not Thomas), though he lacks his natural athletic gifts.

But I'm pretty sure Watson, Brady, and Thomas together cost less than Graham alone in his new Denver contract, so I'll take that. Plus I think Thomas is going to turn into the next big thing. Watson has the dropsies and even when he catches it is a risk to fumble the ball at inopportune moments. He also can run over guys, but so could Graham.

 

[3.2 Blues]

I agree, but also agree with the original thread-starter. Answering that question - does anyone miss Graham as a blocker? NO WAY. Not even close. Brady's better. (So far.)

Come on now. This is just nonsense. Brady a better blocker than Graham? If Graham was still w/ the Patriots would you still think this or is this just homerism?!? I will admit I'm a Broncos fan (and Buffs to boot so I have an affection for Graham) but seriously, do you guys forget what he did for your team in the past so quickly?

You cannot honestly think that Brady is better than Graham - or maybe you know more than every talent evaluator in the NFL? Graham is bringing one of those hidden elements every championship team needs -- toughness.

With that said, that is exactly why Denver went after him. The Bronco offense is centered off the run. How do you improve the run? You bring in a 3rd tackle who can catch when called for.

I really appreciate the way the Patriot organization takes a player and develops them (they are a model franchise) but to try to say that Brady is better than Graham just shows either ignorance or homerism...take your pick!!!

 

[LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks]

Come on now. This is just nonsense. Brady a better blocker than Graham? If Graham was still w/ the Patriots would you still think this or is this just homerism?!? I will admit I'm a Broncos fan (and Buffs to boot so I have an affection for Graham) but seriously, do you guys forget what he did for your team in the past so quickly?

You cannot honestly think that Brady is better than Graham - or maybe you know more than every talent evaluator in the NFL? Graham is bringing one of those hidden elements every championship team needs -- toughness.

With that said, that is exactly why Denver went after him. The Bronco offense is centered off the run. How do you improve the run? You bring in a 3rd tackle who can catch when called for.

I really appreciate the way the Patriot organization takes a player and develops them (they are a model franchise) but to try to say that Brady is better than Graham just shows either ignorance or homerism...take your pick!!!

No one claimed Kyle Brady is better than Daniel Graham. Graham is a much better receiving tight end than Brady and close to him as a blocker. KBrady is pretty much non-existent as a receiver, but he is quite possibly the best blocking tight end in the game (Dunn and Graham are close, but based on these first 2 weeks...I'll take brady).

So overall, Graham is quite a bit better than Brady because he's an option as a receiver...but as blockers, I will take Brady (and I'd imagine many others would as well). The guy has been like having an extra offensive lineman out there.

 

[3.2 Blues]

No one claimed Kyle Brady is better than Daniel Graham. Graham is a much better receiving tight end than Brady and close to him as a blocker. KBrady is pretty much non-existent as a receiver, but he is quite possibly the best blocking tight end in the game (Dunn and Graham are close, but based on these first 2 weeks...I'll take brady).

So overall, Graham is quite a bit better than Brady because he's an option as a receiver...but as blockers, I will take Brady (and I'd imagine many others would as well). The guy has been like having an extra offensive lineman out there.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Considering that Graham is blocking for the LEADING rusher in the NFL and yardage-wise the #1 offense should be enough to end this debate. He hasn't really been used as a receiver yet because our starting guard has been hampered by a concussion (more serious than anybody thought it would be as he hasn't played yet). He has been kept in for blocking purposes and even lined up as the fullback for blocking on some downs and I'd say his pricetag is well worth it. We need all the help to get young Jay up to speed!

I do have to say that I really appreciate the Patriots and their organization. They know talent and that is why they will stay on top for years and years. I'm just glad somebody took the mantle as "most hated team in America" away from the Broncos!!!

Good luck the rest of the season. Without injuries I see a 3 way battle for the afc. You guys, Indy, and Denver. May the best team win!!!

 

[cubicle_6]

Graham was a solid 1st round pick.
He was part of multiple Championship teams.
No complaints here.

 

[SpiderFox53]

No one claimed Kyle Brady is better than Daniel Graham. Graham is a much better receiving tight end than Brady and close to him as a blocker. KBrady is pretty much non-existent as a receiver, but he is quite possibly the best blocking tight end in the game (Dunn and Graham are close, but based on these first 2 weeks...I'll take brady).

So overall, Graham is quite a bit better than Brady because he's an option as a receiver...but as blockers, I will take Brady (and I'd imagine many others would as well). The guy has been like having an extra offensive lineman out there.

For the money, Brady is a better option for the Pats, but if you take money out of the equation, Graham is the much better player, blocking or receiving.

There's no question about it.

 

[JoeSixPat]

JoeSP, I was with you on the original Graham debate, and I think the signing of K.Brady proves our original argument. A blocking tight end can be replaced by another tight end or a quick offensive tackle, for cheaper money than what Graham wanted. I don't see any drop off at the TE position with Graham gone now. I still wish we had traded him and gotten some value instead of just letting him go for nothing...

With Brady being 35 years old or whatever, he's not a longterm blocking solution

But as far as comparing his blocking skills thus far - there's been no dropoff from Graham that I can see.

So I feel confident saying that, as of now, Brady's as good a blocker as Graham.

Next year or the year after is another matter... but I'll hapilly pay a blocking specialist $2.5 million a season, having to resign or refind one every 2 years or so as opposed to paying $6 million a year on a long term contract to Graham.