2018 Training Camp Thread - Day 14* (8/14/18)

[Kontradiction]

I'll worry about that if they get hurt. The panic level right now does not equal the actual situation.

No. The actual situation is that they're playing with fire, but it should be enough for Brady as long as they don't get injured. If they do, the depth is highly suspect.

 

[signbabybrady]

No. The actual situation is that they're playing with fire, but it should be enough for Brady as long as they don't get injured. If they do, the depth is highly suspect.

Fair enough. But people are acting like the house is already burning down.

I feel like we have as much top end talent as any team if not slightly better. Then I feel like if just one of the 3 former first rounders can fit in here we will be fine at depth too.

 

[JackBauer]

I feel like we have as much top end talent as any team if not slightly better.

At WR? Or in general?

 

[RobertWeathers]

If 150 balls are going to those 3 its a sign things aren’t working, not a plan.

Yes and no. If they are all from checkdowns because the WR1, WR2 and Gronk aren't open then I agree.

If they are coming from the slot, split wide or match-up based then there is nothing wrong with it.

Hollister emerging and catching 50 balls would be great. Especially if hes playing AHs old role.

White caught 56 last year. Lewis & Burkhead caught a combined 62.

 

[bormio]

I’d hate to think we are relying on a TE2 a backup RB and White to catch 150 passes.

I don’t see Hollister getting that much attention, I’d cut him down around 20-ish, and Burkhead in the sand area and put whoever emerge as WR3 in the 40 range, and increase gronk/Edelman.

70 catches for Edelman in 12 games is 94 for a 16 game schedule. Doable, but I would not count on it.

 

[maineman209]

Burkhead caught 30 balls last year and missed a bunch of time.

White catches 50 balls in his sleep.

I see Hollister as an H-back move TE. I think hes gonna play at least 30-40 snaps a game.

Maybe. Not sure it works out mathematically.

Last year, the offense averaged about 70 snaps/game - times 5 eligible pass-catchers, that's 350 per game.

The RBs accounted for 75 snaps of the 350.
Gronk accounted for 65.
The two top WRs accounted for about 65 each
(Hogan, when healthy, Amendola/Dorsett and other picked up the slack when he was out).

That leaves about 80 snaps/game for everyone else - including Develin (20-25) and Allen (25-30).

 

[Ring 6]

Yes and no. If they are all from checkdowns because the WR1, WR2 and Gronk aren't open then I agree.

If they are coming from the slot, split wide or match-up based then there is nothing wrong with it.

Hollister emerging and catching 50 balls would be great. Especially if hes playing AHs old role.

White caught 56 last year. Lewis & Burkhead caught a combined 62.

If it’s 150 passes there are going to be a lot of underneath throws and dump offs, and when you TE1 is also getting 100+ targets you make yourself easier to defend.
There have to be more WR plays than the 120 you are counting here.
The last 4 years WR receptions have been, from 2017-2014
174
195
201
207

I don’t see more than 50 out of hogan, that’s just the type of receiver he is. Edelman getting 75 in 12 games is a 100 catch pace, after sitting home 4 weeks, and on a rehabbed ACL so that’s a best case.
That leaves anywhere from 50-80 that the other WRs need to make up.


As far as Hollister becoming another AH, in 2011, the height of the gronk/ah offernce Wrs caught 192 passes.
Really if you see a jump from Hollister it will have to come from a decrease at RB, or a major problem in the offense.

 

[Deus Irae]

Very likely. And not to put it all on you but I'm getting really sick of looking at the WR depth through the lens of a 4 game suspension. Jules will be a huge part of this WR group despite his suspension.

Gronk, Jules, and Hogan are weapons as good as most any in the league. Let's relax a little.

1. Gronk's a TE, not a WR. He, therefore, does not belong in the WR discussion, just as White, Burkhead and the rest of the RBs don't belong in the WR discussion
   
2. Hogan's a WR3
3. Edelman's an older WR coming back from ACL surgery

It's folly to claim that, as of now, such a group is as good as most any in the league when discussing WRs. It's not.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If it’s 150 passes there are going to be a lot of underneath throws and dump offs, and when you TE1 is also getting 100+ targets you make yourself easier to defend.
There have to be more WR plays than the 120 you are counting here.
The last 4 years WR receptions have been, from 2017-2014
174
195
201
207

I don’t see more than 50 out of hogan, that’s just the type of receiver he is. Edelman getting 75 in 12 games is a 100 catch pace, after sitting home 4 weeks, and on a rehabbed ACL so that’s a best case.
That leaves anywhere from 50-80 that the other WRs need to make up.


As far as Hollister becoming another AH, in 2011, the height of the gronk/ah offernce Wrs caught 192 passes.
Really if you see a jump from Hollister it will have to come from a decrease at RB, or a major problem in the offense.

Why do you think Hollister is a "dump off" target?

White and Burkhead lined up all over the place.

I'm not expecting much out of any of the WRs aside from JE and Hogan.

 

[Deus Irae]

I feel like we have as much top end talent as any team if not slightly better.

 

[Ring 6]

Why do you think Hollister is a "dump off" target?

White and Burkhead lined up all over the place.

I'm not expecting much out of any of the WRs aside from JE and Hogan.

TEs and RBs Ron different routes than WRs.
Sure once in a while you see a RB or TE lined up in a WR position but if they start to be used as WRs they will be covered by corners.

If you are right about the WRs this will be a rough year.

 

[RobertWeathers]

TEs and RBs Ron different routes than WRs.

I'm not saying they do or don't. In this offense TEs and RBs do not always run traditional TE and RB routes. Josh lines them up all over the place.

Sure once in a while you see a RB or TE lined up in a WR position but if they start to be used as WRs they will be covered by corners.

The TEs and RBs typically are in motion or in the slot.

If you are right about the WRs this will be a rough year.

Are you serious? Do you really think this season is riding on a WR3?

In 2016 WR2 was Hogan and he had 38 catches. DA had 23.

If JE is JE by November, Gronk is Gronk, Hogan gives them 60/700, White and Burk do their thing, Hollister emerges as a chain mover and they get a solid running game they will be just fine hanging 30ppg. Of course this is all dependent on Tom being Tom.

 

[signbabybrady]

Name the 2 players from one team that you would rather have catching passes from TB12 than Gronk and Edelman?

There are maybe a handful of teams with that kind of duo.

 

[Mack Herron]

On the list of things to watch:

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

I hope i am wrong about Dorsett and he becomes a big contributor but

Name the 2 players from one team that you would rather have catching passes from TB12 than Gronk and Edelman?

There are maybe a handful of teams with that kind of duo.

Jules is great but it’s too early to tell if he will be the same player he was. I think he’s gonna be ok but it’s nice to have some depth behind him. Hogan was another guy who had a down year as well with injuries. These guys are getting older. It’s a risky proposition to have those guys as the number 1 and 3rd option and not have some good depth behind them.

 

[jah]

Name the 2 players from one team that you would rather have catching passes from TB12 than Gronk and Edelman?

There are maybe a handful of teams with that kind of duo.

That's not even close to what he was e-laughing at.

 

[jah]

On the list of things to watch:

I love that this is what he's been famous for since signing here. Nobody ever talks about him in isolation, just in the context of potentially causing our least favorite Patriot to be cut.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not saying they do or don't. In this offense TEs and RBs do not always run traditional TE and RB routes. Josh lines them up all over the place.



The TEs and RBs typically are in motion or in the slot.



Are you serious? Do you really think this season is riding on a WR3?

In 2016 WR2 was Hogan and he had 38 catches. DA had 23.

If JE is JE by November, Gronk is Gronk, Hogan gives them 60/700, White and Burk do their thing, Hollister emerges as a chain mover and they get a solid running game they will be just fine hanging 30ppg. Of course this is all dependent on Tom being Tom.

I’m not saying the season is riding on it, I’m saying the offense will suffer if the only WRs that contribute are a rehabbing Edelman for a max of 12 games and an injury prone hogan.
Hogan has never given them 60/700, last year was barely more than half of that.
Hollister is a hope. I’d rather pin my hopes on the guy who earns playing time out of a group of 4 veteran receivers who have had success in the NFL than a 2nd year udfa TE who caught 4 passes last year but looks nice in practice.

We didn’t put up 30 a game last year and are without our top rb and top 2 WRs.
I don’t think we can just say who needs WRs and bank it all on Hollister and expect to improve.
Backup RBs and TEs are complementary pieces of a passing game not a reason to abandon the WR position.

Luckily we have a lot of talent there and I think your morass is because you put too much emphasis on people making comments about camp drills.

 

[Deus Irae]

Name the 2 players from one team that you would rather have catching passes from TB12 than Gronk and Edelman?

There are maybe a handful of teams with that kind of duo.

Do you bother reading what you post nowadays, or have you completely forsaken that?

C'mon. You're better than this sort of silliness.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Hes been "Brady-ed"