OT: Training Camp Injuries (rest of NFL)

[RobertWeathers]

I wish we only had two preseason games or none at all.

I absolutely hate preseason. Hate. Hate. Hate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sucks for him. But that is pro football.

Meaningless game in which he isn't even paid to play in.

 

[primetime]

Disappointing. Special player, I would have taken him over Barkley or Sony, and having a very good camp by all indications. Ki-Jana Carter type thing.

 

[luuked]

Meaningless game in which he isn't even paid to play in.

This could have happened in any padded practice session or -- even more likely -- during joint practices. What is the difference ?

 

[RobertWeathers]

This could have happened in any padded practice session or -- even more likely -- during joint practices. What is the difference ?

Thats the point. It could have happened during practice but it didn't. It happened in a meaningless game.

 

[luuked]

Thats the point. It could have happened during practice but it didn't. It happened in a meaningless game.

I dont see your point. This "game" is glorified practice especially with the limits on pads and whatnot. It is meaningless in the sense that it has no effect in the postseason but more meaningful than any practice session.

Is your point to get rid of preseason games and replace them with regular practices to avoid injuries?

 

[Mike the Brit]

As Mayo said, the injury rate in pro football is 100%. Still, it's much worse if it comes at the outset of a career, before a player has had a chance to put money away for retirement. I feel for Guice, like I do for Malcolm Mitchell or Zach Orr.

I was curious whether there is any data to back up the hunch that artificial turf makes ACLs more likely. I didn't find anything useful, but I did run across this interesting article.

It seems like the common factor behind ACL injuries is deceleration plus torsion, and that can come with or without contact. That makes sense to me (Edelman's non-contact injury came as he made a wicked cut).

But the message of the article is depressing: though athletes do come back from ACLs these days, it seems like they always lose a little bit.

An ACL injury is no longer a career killer, but can athletes ever truly be the same?​

 

[RobertWeathers]

I dont see your point. This "game" is glorified practice especially with the limits on pads and whatnot. It is meaningless in the sense that it has no effect in the postseason but more meaningful than any practice session.

Thats our disconnect. I don't see preseason as a glorified practice. I see it as a game in which established, veteran players are not being paid to participate in and the team's investment in them is put at risk over something meaningless. Why incur the risk in a meaningless game? Vets are out the 1/2 assing it anyway.

I can see preseason for rookies and fringe players but the reality is coaches can evaluate players just as well during practice and intra-squad scrimmages. Putting players like JE11, Brady, Gronk, Hightower, etc in a preseason game is stupid.

With that said I feel the same way about MLB spring training and the NHL preseason. I do think the NBA summer league is good as it helps rookies get acclimated to the lifestyle better.

Is your point to get rid of preseason games and replace them with regular practices to avoid injuries?

No my point is to get rid of preseason. We can discuss and debate if there is enough practices in the NFL.

I agree with the notion of, 'You only get better at football by playing football' however I believe you can accomplish that without vets playing preseason games.

 

[luuked]

Thats our disconnect. I don't see preseason as a glorified practice. I see it as a game in which established, veteran players are not being paid to participate in and the team's investment in them is put at risk over something meaningless. Why incur the risk in a meaningless game? Vets are out the 1/2 assing it anyway.

I can see preseason for rookies and fringe players but the reality is coaches can evaluate players just as well during practice and intra-squad scrimmages. Putting players like JE11, Brady, Gronk, Hightower, etc in a preseason game is stupid.

With that said I feel the same way about MLB spring training and the NHL preseason. I do think the NBA summer league is good as it helps rookies get acclimated to the lifestyle better.



No my point is to get rid of preseason. We can discuss and debate if there is enough practices in the NFL.

I agree with the notion of, 'You only get better at football by playing football' however I believe you can accomplish that without vets playing preseason games.

I am not trying to get into an argument at all, you said we just have a different outlook on what a preseason game is. Gotcha.

 

[maineman209]

Gilly doesn't seem to have the power to pick up a couple more yards after he is hit at the line. It was just 1 game but Hill showed he has that extra leg drive. You know, the LG push.

But maybe

I thought the biggest difference was the Hill is lightyears better at reading his blocks.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I am not trying to get into an argument at all, you said we just have a different outlook on what a preseason game is. Gotcha.

I know you aren't. We have different views. Big deal.

I'm sure every NFL coach will say there is value in the preseason. I do wonder how many NFL coaches would agree with eliminating the preseason altogether.

 

[luuked]

I know you aren't. We have different views. Big deal.

I'm sure every NFL coach will say there is value in the preseason. I do wonder how many NFL coaches would agree with eliminating the preseason altogether.

Personally I think properly done joint practices can be more efficient because you can give out more snaps to everyone. That being said there is a certain value to simulate an entire game experience including travel, a stay in a hotel and the countdown to a game in a stadium.

 

[maineman209]

This "game" is glorified practice

Not sure I agree with that entirely.

Playing full contact against players that you don't see in practice every day, in a situation that's refereed by the same guys who will be officiating the games that count, is a whole different test and learning experience (even for vets). Can't really be duplicated in practice.

In terms of injuries, there were 10 guys already out for the year with ACLs before any preseason games were played. All occurred in practices, probably many of them in non-contact drills.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Personally I think properly done joint practices can be more efficient because you can give out more snaps to everyone. That being said there is a certain value to simulate an entire game experience including travel, a stay in a hotel and the countdown to a game in a stadium.

Agree completely re: joint practices. I think they are great.

 

[luuked]

Playing full contact against players that you don't see in practice every day, in a situation that's refereed by the same guys who will be officiating the games that count, is a whole different test and learning experience (even for vets). Can't really be duplicated in practice.

I think a lot of it can be more efficiently duplicated by joint practices. But as I said in another post.. there are certain aspects of preseason games that have value.

 

[Horace's Ivories]

Is the Gillette turf significantly worse than other artificial fields around the league? If so why wouldn't Billionaire Krafty want to fix it especially if its been a cause of higher injuries?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Is the Gillette turf significantly worse than other artificial fields around the league? If so why wouldn't Billionaire Krafty want to fix it especially if its been a cause of higher injuries?

I think Nink said because of the motorcross and concerts the turf was really packed down. I'm not sure if that was the reason he blew out his ACL.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And in Dallas...Garrett is telling Dak it’s ok for him to run during the preseason.

Cowboys tell Dak Prescott to run, even in the preseason

 

[maineman209]

Is the Gillette turf significantly worse than other artificial fields around the league? If so why wouldn't Billionaire Krafty want to fix it especially if its been a cause of higher injuries?

IDK that it's "worse" in any quantifiable way. However, Kraft replaced it in May of 2017, and then AGAIN in August 2017 (with a different type) due to player/coaches complaints (reportedly).

 

[Mike the Brit]

IDK that it's "worse" in any quantifiable way. However, Kraft replaced it in May of 2017, and then AGAIN in August 2017 (with a different type) due to player/coaches complaints (reportedly).

The Pats players and coaches have complained about the Gillette surface, but it's not clear that it is worse from the point of view of susceptibility to ACL injury than other turfs. Edelman, of course, injured himself in a non-contact injury on the Detroit field.

I haven't seen any hard data about the pros and cons of turf against natural grass. I'd assumed that the relative rarity of ACLs in soccer might be significant, but there are quite a few in rugby, which is played on natural grass. Of course, given their economic interests, I wouldn't expect the NFL to be rushing to publish data that shows turf in a bad light ...