Lebron James and NBA Discussion!

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Not a fan but 154 million, probably gonna parlay his playing career into Hollywood or maybe owning a franchise. I’ll take those Ls he’s getting off the court.

Wel he has had plenty of that before he came to the lakers but this signing by the warriors doesn’t help him even if cousins can be a decent player after the Achilles.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Cousins can get healthy in time for the playoffs, and is even 80% of his former self by then, the NBA might as well just mail the Warriors the trophy and save us all the trouble of watching those playoff games.

 

[maust]

graceless child, your ridiculous self importance not withstanding, neither you or I get to decide when the modern era began. Apparently you are the only supposed football fan on this site that is unaware of the merger being universally accepted as it's inception. You and your reflection do not define 'many fans' with different viewpoints on when it began. Once again have your head squarely inserted where the sun does not shine.

 

[RedSleevesPinkStripes]

It's true. I have lived in the LA area my entire life so I'm a Lakers fan. Became a Pats fan during '96 season as quite a few of their games were televised locally and found out Willie McGinest was local playing in the NFL. They had the coolest names on defense and I liked their swag so I became a fan.

OK, I was thinking the other way around, some NE kid rooting for the Purple Pee in the Lakers ... Sacrilege.

 

[Brick27]

If Cousins can get healthy in time for the playoffs, and is even 80% of his former self by then, the NBA might as well just mail the Warriors the trophy and save us all the trouble of watching those playoff games.

Warriors have to be psyched that this move allows them even more time to focus on being social justice warriors, and not just warriors on the court.

 

[patsfan13]

Kyrie is not higher than Sam Jones, Truth or Hondo.

With the number of Celtic HOF players they could field 2 teams better than most teams best all time team

 

[IcyPatriot]

 

[TB_Helmet]

Warriors have to be psyched that this move allows them even more time to focus on being social justice warriors, and not just warriors on the court.

Good one brick27!!

 

[rochrist]

Also to be fair today's professional athletes are the product of a time where the quality of sport science far outpaces that of yesteryear for both physical and mental training/prep.

So in a lot of ways it makes what people like Bo Jackson or Bill Russell did all the more impressive but at the same time it also means that they wouldn't stand out as much, if at all, if they were time traveled into modern day.

So with these top 10 lists you have some people looking at all pros irrespective of their era and yeah, a 6'8" 265lb Lebron is going probably going to mop the court with guys from the 90s and earlier. But then you have some people wanting to judge Jim Brown relative to the time in which he played when he was an absolute monster.

I don't think you can chalk it all up to recency bias, though. I'm not trying to take anything away from Larry Bird, for instance, but he wouldn't be considered an all time great if he was just coming out of college now.

No, it doesn't mean that at all. Those guys would benefit from the same sports science and training techniquies as everyone else. Guys stand orders of magnitude above their peers would continue to stand orders of magnitude above their peers.

Also, you should really dig up the Larry Bird highlight video and watch it before you saw something like that.

 

[rochrist]

Then say right now that you think McHale or Garnett is better than one of Shaq, Wilt, Magic, West, or Kareem. Otherwise there was no reason to post that and you are confirming yourself as a troll. Either take part in the discussion or don't.

Also how old are you

I'm not 70 but I'm old enough to have seen Russell play unlike you. I also saw Havelicek play. And Bird. And I never said anything about Garnett. You're ignoring positions. But McHale was certainly 'better' than Magic. McHale was the the best low post power forward of all time. Magic is not the best point guard of all time.

 

[rochrist]

You completely ignored the discussion that was going on for quite a bit to get your spots in, but whatever.

We were arguing all time teams. The Lakers overall have someone that many would argue is the best player of the 60's (Wilt, yeah we can argue Russell is better but Wilt is at worst two), 70's (Kareem), 80's (Magic, yeah we can argue Bird, but Magic is at worst two), 2000's (Kobe) and now 2010's (Lebron) and you can easily argue Shaq was the best player of the late 90's post Jordan and early 2000's pre Kobe emerging.

That isn't what you said. You said flatly that Wilt, Shaq, Kareen, Magic and Kobe were all better than the best all time Cs.

 

[rochrist]

I don't buy the list, though. Two obvious points make delving deeper a waste of time (no offense to you, but I'm talking about the list).

Russell is the G.O.A.T.. If your list doesn't start with that, your list is worthless. Also, the idea that Magic should be rated higher than Bird is absurd. In any L.A./Boston comparison, I always start there. Simmons gets them both wrong.

Simmons is an idiot though, Even Deadspin knows that.

 

[lancerman]

That isn't what you said. You said flatly that Wilt, Shaq, Kareen, Magic and Kobe were all better than the best all time Cs.

No I said they were better than everyone not named Russell and Bird. Someone made a ranking and had Russell at 1 and Bird at 2 then a toss up between McHale and Garnett. I said Wilt/Shaq/Kareem/Magic/Kobe/West were all better than both guys he had ranked 3

 

[TB_Helmet]

Simmons is an idiot though, Even Deadspin knows that.

Well....Deadspin hates all things Boston sports, so your argument is moot.

The book he wrote is well researched, intelligent and thoughtful. And he’s a pretty smart guy. You can say he’s annoying, smug, douchey, or all of the above, but to say he’s an idiot is way off the mark.

 

[TB_Helmet]

I'm not 70 but I'm old enough to have seen Russell play unlike you. I also saw Havelicek play. And Bird. And I never said anything about Garnett. You're ignoring positions. But McHale was certainly 'better' than Magic. McHale was the the best low post power forward of all time. Magic is not the best point guard of all time.

I don’t really want to get drawn into this, and as Deus says you can’t really compare players at different positions, but to say McHale is better than Magic is a tough sell, man. I don’t think you’re gonna get very many people following you into battle on that one.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I don’t really want to get drawn into this, and as Deus says you can’t really compare players at different positions, but to say McHale is better than Magic is a tough sell, man. I don’t think you’re gonna get very many people following you into battle on that one.

Kevin McHale doesn’t believe that he’s better than Magic.

 

[lancerman]

Kevin McHale doesn’t believe that he’s better than Magic.

This is what I mean. We are now in the Kevin McHale is better than Magic Johnson level of homerism.

 

[fnordcircle]

No, it doesn't mean that at all. Those guys would benefit from the same sports science and training techniquies as everyone else. Guys stand orders of magnitude above their peers would continue to stand orders of magnitude above their peers.

The will to win is what propelled a lot of those all time greats who were not physically the tops even during their time to out perform people who would run faster and were stronger. But there's a limit to how much the will to win can launch someone to outperform their more physically gifted peers.

And then you have guys like Bo, Brown, Barry Sanders or Michael Jordan who were freaks in their time. They wouldn't have their physical advantage to rely on today. The things that made them look like a man among boys would be canceled out by how many opportunities are afforded to athletically-gifted kids today.

I grew up watching those guys. I looooved rooting against MJ but was in awe of his pure will to win. In today's NBA he might still be a top guy but not the complete freak he was then. Same with Bo, Barry and Brown.

Also, you should really dig up the Larry Bird highlight video and watch it before you saw something like that.

I'm old. I watched the C's regularly during the 6pack era. Tell someone else to get off of your lawn.

Believe whatever you want, but Larry Bird isn't a thing if he was born 19 years ago.

 

[Off The Grid]

While a lot of players would benefit from modern sports a lot of great players would find out that they had a ceiling that they didn't know they had, which is what happens to most athletes. They are all motivated like crazy but some workhorses become Julian Edelman's and the rarity becomes Jerry Rice.

The overall era stuff is tough because it cuts in favor of the era you prefer. If you consider today to be softball then yeah a guy like Curry's skill sets will translate horribly in the 60's and 70's. But that's the direction the sport is going in.

Also lets be straight up here, if you are 60 or younger you are too young to have seen Russell or Wilt and put them in any proper context. A 60 year old today would have been 11 in Russell's last playing year. And no offense, I don't really care for someone who was 6 or 7 during Russell's prime telling me about him. So if you are 65 plus, fine give an opinion on him, but anybody else is just going off what they heard, the stats, and the clips they watched like everybody else. So this whole "you didn't watch a basketball game prior to 2010" is such a false shield. I religiously watched Jordan as a kid and even I feel uncomfortable acting like I watched that and was anything but a kid who was amazed by what he saw. But I do know how his stats stack up, I do know how Bird called him god disguised as a basketball player and how even during his playing career guys like Magic and Wilt and Russell were singing his praises. At some point you go far back enough and you are going to hit someone you don't have context for. In football context Otto Graham went to 10 straight championships and won 7 of them and he did it across both relevant leagues. You'd have to be 80 or likely older to have watched Graham in his prime and to have an accurate "I saw it" argument to contextualize his place in history. In yet there are plenty people in the NBA not to long ago who freaked out and made a bunch of excuses when I made the comparison to how Jordan is to Russell what Brady is to Graham. And that's ignoring that much younger people were calling people like Kareem in basketball and Montana the GOAT. So again it's fine line comparing across era's because everyone wants to act like they are knowledgeable and to a certain point everyone isn't and they have to rely on things other than the eye test.

Sometimes, you say some really stupid shytte, Lancerman.

This isn't one'f those times.

 

[Deus Irae]

The problem is you are going to be hard pressed to find lists that rank it differently from someone who is considered either a former player or an insider. Generally the consensus on Magic vs Bird is that Bird had the better peak but Magic had the better overall career. Feel free to argue that, but generally when you hear former players and insiders talk about it, Magic gets the nod. And I'm not getting into the Russell vs Jordon or Wilt thing again. You will be very hard pressed to find a list that doesn't start with Jordan 1, and that's all I'm going to say. Feel free to disagree with it, but that's not the overall consensus.

You keep posting garbage like this. It keeps being garbage.

As long as a player was the better player when both players were at their best, and their respective bests were long enough to matter, then that player is the better player. Short times of excellence that are limited by injury do not prevent people from understanding the greatness of the player, as long as the term isn't too short to get a fair read on the extent of that greatness. That's how short careered players make it into the various Halls of Fame. That's simply common sense.

You can keep trying to claim otherwise, but it's an embarrassing claim to make.