2018 Offensive Line discussion

[Hyped]

Yes but isn't it ALSO possible that every 10 years a guy comes in like Draymond Green or Charles Barkley or Dennis Rodman who dominates big men even though they're a couple inches short?

There are always exceptions....but like Red Auerbach used to say, "You can't teach height". You either have it or you don't. When you don't...there are other ways to make plays...

For instance, last night the Celtics were finally able to shoot baskets normally in the paint against the Sixers after facing Antetokounmpo and Maker in the first round where we had to shoot the ball like World B. Free......

In short, you want height...but you can work without it.

 

[jah]

There are always exceptions....but like Red Auerbach used to say, "You can't teach height". You either have it or you don't. When you don't...there are other ways to make plays...

For instance, last night the Celtics were finally able to shoot baskets normally in the paint against the Sixers after facing Antetokounmpo and Maker in the first round where we had to shoot the ball like World B. Free......

In short, you want height...but you can work without it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say height matters just a bit more in basketball.

 

[mgteich]

I agree on the 7 OL's. We do carry a backup IOL (presumably Karras since he is our backup center).

We may or may not carry a 9th OL.

I ended up putting him in the G category but he absolutely has what it takes to be a great Tackle. Sometimes its a clear case of a pass rusher that will play linebacker but in Wynn's case he was just so good at both. The word is thrown around too much but he brings real versatility & excelled at both positions. Made a gut cal but I feel more than confident he lives up to the scouting report & more. He might be the best OL'm we've drafted during this run.

Plays with an aggressive edge but is that guy that mauls a defender but doesn't cross the stupid line. Well aware of what looks like a penalty. Wynn's quick feet, play strength & hands will give him a chance to win every rep.

Not sure if I had it on my first post but I agree w ashley

Wynn Thuney Andrews Mason Cannon as of now.
Waddle/Garcia Brown

Or at least that's the hope.

 

[Tony2046]

Belichick tends to speak highly of David Andrews but he seems to have been the weak link at times, in part due to his lack of size and strength. Thuney also struggled in this regard recently, and although I think Mason is a solid guard, he is suspect in pass blocking at times. I tend to think, though, that Mason is the most likely of the aforementioned three players to continue starting.

I would be curious about starting Ted Karrass at center. In his limited number of snaps there he has appeared better than Andrews to my naked eye.

Brown - Wynn - Karrass - Mason - Cannon, perhaps?

Or maybe they have plans to try Thuney or Wynn at center? Maybe one of the free agent signings surprises and finds his way into a starting role.

The only thing I'm relatively certain of is that Brown will be at LT and Cannon at RT, but I could be totally wrong on that.

We had a discussion about Offensive line schemes a while ago. Basically there are zone blocking, man blocking and hybrid blocking schemes. The Patriots run all of them. Some of the articles I read back then stated that offensive linemen in zone blocking schemes tend to be lighter because they need to be quicker and more agile to run a zone scheme more effectively. Andrews fits that model. So does Wynn imo.

We broke down some film of those schemes and it included some run attempts by Gillislee and Lewis. Lewis was very effective running in either a zone or man scheme while Gillislee didn't seem to catch on to the zone as much.

So imo it may be that the Pats drafted offensively to get zone type players or at least those who are familiar with both. Wynn and Michel are familiar with both. According to this article Georgia runs both. I don't know if or how many other college teams run both but does get a lot of attention for their running game (I'm in GA so it could be that too. haha)

I don't know what that means for who plays where but if I had to guess it would be initially Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon. I still question whether or not there is a difference between RT and LT. Maybe in a man scheme there isn't but I suspect in a zone scheme there is because of various blocking assignments. Actually that's a good question for @AndyJohnson or @patfanken or whomever else may know.

Just some thoughts.

I’m glad you asked; it’s a combination of scheme and sound coaching. It’s no secret that Richt operates a traditional pro-style attack based in gap- and man-blocking principles. Linemen have to be versed in all kinds of blocking: down blocks, traps, reach blocks and combos (among others). Not to mention that new offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer, much like Bobo did, loves to implement inside- and outside zone-runs.

Film Study: UGA’s no-name OL pilots the country’s best run game

 

[Tony2046]

I F***** HATE ANDREWS OK

He's a solid center. I could find film on any of the oline guys getting pushed back (maybe not Mason) but I've seen Andrews handle Suh as well. Finding a solid center is not easy. That's a tough position to fill.

 

[JayNM]

He's a solid center. I could find film on any of the oline guys getting pushed back (maybe not Mason) but I've seen Andrews handle Suh as well. Finding a solid center is not easy. That's a tough position to fill.

yeah? well, look at his face

Does that inflict fear in you? NO IT DOES NOT

/points

 

[catent]

We had a discussion about Offensive line schemes a while ago. Basically there are zone blocking, man blocking and hybrid blocking schemes. The Patriots run all of them. Some of the articles I read back then stated that offensive linemen in zone blocking schemes tend to be lighter because they need to be quicker and more agile to run a zone scheme more effectively. Andrews fits that model. So does Wynn imo.

We broke down some film of those schemes and it included some run attempts by Gillislee and Lewis. Lewis was very effective running in either a zone or man scheme while Gillislee didn't seem to catch on to the zone as much.

So imo it may be that the Pats drafted offensively to get zone type players or at least those who are familiar with both. Wynn and Michel are familiar with both. According to this article Georgia runs both. I don't know if or how many other college teams run both but does get a lot of attention for their running game (I'm in GA so it could be that too. haha)

I don't know what that means for who plays where but if I had to guess it would be initially Brown, Thuney, Andrews, Mason, Cannon. I still question whether or not there is a difference between RT and LT. Maybe in a man scheme there isn't but I suspect in a zone scheme there is because of various blocking assignments. Actually that's a good question for @AndyJohnson or @patfanken or whomever else may know.

Just some thoughts.



Film Study: UGA’s no-name OL pilots the country’s best run game

Interesting. I simply have a hard time believe that Wynn will not be starting, not-so-much based on his draft position, but rather due to his talent. The limited number of highlights I've seen of him have shown a strong, quick, technically proficient offensive lineman who appears destined to be an all-pro in short order.

I think Brown, Cannon and Wynn are by far the most talented offensive linemen currently on the team. Where they fit in along the line remains to be seen, and who else joins them also appears up in the air. Maybe they try Brown inside at G, which was his position in college (if Garcia was to impress and find his way into a starting role).

Let us not forget Garcia, either. Tons of options and depth at OL which I suppose is a good thing. I'll be curious about how the roles shake out as training camp progresses.

My uneducated guess would be that we'll see the following:

Brown - Wynn - Andrews - Mason - Cannon

and if I was playing coach myself, I'd try the following:

Brown - Wynn - Karras - Mason - Cannon

or, if we're really getting out there...

Garcia - Wynn - Mason - Brown - Cannon

At any rate, assuming health it'll be nice to have a solid offensive line for the first time in awhile. The guys recently have been solid but I think they've been a bit outmatched physically against better front-7s, and Dante has definitely allowed them to overachieve. Now that he has a stable of physically gifted stallions, I expect a more consistent, physical, dominating offensive line for the coming seasons.

 

[BobDigital]

I just hope Dante is NOT considering retirement anytime soon...

He is 70 so I'm sure. I do hope he retires in the next few years as he has earned it for sure. If Wynn is the long term solution at LT I would be happy and he gets to learn a year from Scar I'd be happy with that.

A full year coaching up the player who will watch the blindside of Brady and whoever we have after him for the next 10-12 years would be a great parting gift.

As for the OL this year I do hope Wynn is the LT of the future and not a guard. I'd dislike it strongly if we took a guard at 23 no matter how good.

 

[mgteich]

If you look at the free agent market, guards are worth lots more than they used to be worth.

.
As for the OL this year I do hope Wynn is the LT of the future and not a guard. I'd dislike it strongly if we took a guard at 23 no matter how good.

 

[supafly]

Interesting. I simply have a hard time believe that Wynn will not be starting, not-so-much based on his draft position, but rather due to his talent. The limited number of highlights I've seen of him have shown a strong, quick, technically proficient offensive lineman who appears destined to be an all-pro in short order.

I think Brown, Cannon and Wynn are by far the most talented offensive linemen currently on the team. Where they fit in along the line remains to be seen, and who else joins them also appears up in the air. Maybe they try Brown inside at G, which was his position in college (if Garcia was to impress and find his way into a starting role).

Let us not forget Garcia, either. Tons of options and depth at OL which I suppose is a good thing. I'll be curious about how the roles shake out as training camp progresses.

My uneducated guess would be that we'll see the following:

Brown - Wynn - Andrews - Mason - Cannon

and if I was playing coach myself, I'd try the following:

Brown - Wynn - Karras - Mason - Cannon

or, if we're really getting out there...

Garcia - Wynn - Mason - Brown - Cannon

At any rate, assuming health it'll be nice to have a solid offensive line for the first time in awhile. The guys recently have been solid but I think they've been a bit outmatched physically against better front-7s, and Dante has definitely allowed them to overachieve. Now that he has a stable of physically gifted stallions, I expect a more consistent, physical, dominating offensive line for the coming seasons.

Could be Brown, could be Wynn, could be Waddle, or it could be Garcia. I think it’s pretty wide open and should be one of the more intriguing battles for TC + the preseason. The good news is that we have more options now versus a month ago, when everyone just assumed that it would be Waddle.

 

[supafly]

If you look at the free agent market, guards are worth lots more than they used to be worth. h

Especially with Mason hitting the open market when the season is done, and the team’s attempts to upgrade or at least add competition at center during the past couple of drafts. That’s not even bringing Joe Thuney’s situation into play, as there’s another potential need for upgrade, right there.

 

[Uptown]

 

[SHOWTIME15]

If trent brown is that good, why did SF unload him?

 

[Uptown]

If trent brown is that good, why did SF unload him?

I’m guessing a mixture of them drafting McGlinchey, still having Joe Staley, Brown’s contract expiring after this season & SF wanting to be a bit more physical in the run game.

 

[Love The Drake]

They want to see if Jimmy G can take hits?

 

[Sciz]

If trent brown is that good, why did SF unload him?

There are too many holes on that roster to be turning down trade offers for a backup in the last year of his contract. And while he deserves all this praise about his pass blocking, he hasn’t developed as a run blocker. He’s a bit like Cannon in that way. You see their size and athletic limitations and think run-blocking guard, but they’ve both actually developed into the exact opposite.

 

[Deus Irae]

Trent Brown speaks:

“I’m just going to compete every day and trust that the coaches will put me in the best position possible,” said Brown, who has primarily played on the right side throughout his career.

The massive tackle, however, said he’s comfortable playing either side.

“I’ve always played both sides. I started out playing (left) in college. I played left in high school,” he said. “I really started playing right when I got to the University of Florida. But, switching sides has never been (an issue).”

New Patriots tackle Trent Brown ready to compete for a starting job

Reading the whole article, He comes off as ****y as all get out quite confident in his abilities. Here's to hoping such ****iness confidence is well-deserved this year.

 

[mgteich]

IMHO, Wynn is one of our 5 best OL's and will start.

For me, Brown is the question. If he is able, he is our LT. Then, Thuney will be a Game Day IOL backup instead of Karras.

I suppose if all works out well, Belichick might be Bleichick and trade Mason before the trade deadline.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

IMHO, Wynn is one of our 5 best OL's and will start.

For me, Brown is the question. If he is able, he is our LT. Then, Thuney will be a Game Day IOL backup instead of Karras.

I suppose if all works out well, Belichick might be Bleichick and trade Mason before the trade deadline.

I think of brown as the guy we plug into rt when cannon gets hurt. Because we know cannon goes down at some point early in the season.

 

[mgteich]

I think of brown as the guy we plug into rt when cannon gets hurt. Because we know cannon goes down at some point early in the season.

Are you suggesting that he be inactive? Even if he isn't a starter, I would expect Brown to be the Game Day backup at RT and LT. If he can't do that, we might as well have Waddle or Tobin in that role.