Ground Hog Day

[RobertWeathers]

Defense wins championships.

....and they had one but keep on *****ing.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Philly made a big stop when they needed it though, The pats did not

By that argument, one could say drafting offense was the correct choice. Philly's offense made the plays when they needed it though, the Pats did not.

 

[Triumph]

1. It's reasonable to question what was done for the defense.
2. It's foolish to think RB was not a need.

Nope

RB was not a need at 2 on a team thats run game is by committee. Lewis is gone, not Emmit Smith. Lewis was a castaway.

3rd ranked run game in 2017. 31st ranked defense.

 

[Triumph]

....and they had one but keep on *****ing.

31st defense.

Best QB in the game.

Keep drinking the kool aid

 

[Sicilian]

Lets see.

2017 Pats were # 1 passing, # 3 in rushing and # 3 at Special teams.

Might the problem be NEs 31 ranked defense? Nah, they were 5 in some meaningless stat that makes some people all warm and fuzzy.

Points allowed is a meaningless stat now?

 

[Ivan]

Just curious. What has Philly done to fix /their/ horrendous defense. because it's not as though they shut down the Pats anymore than the Pats shut them down.

Look at Pitt’s offseason, or the Jags, neither has gotten better, and the Jags are still saddled with a piss poor QB. The AFC is still going through NE.

 

[Triumph]

What impact front 7 player should they have picked at #31?

I'm not paid to find that guy and if I did have a name all the mini Mel's would chime in how the guy sucks. Some team drafted a defensive stud late that everyone will regret passing by in lieu of JAG.

Just like the Steelers always find Wrs no matter what round.

 

[ivanvamp]

Rivers is essentially a rookie, that's correct Triumph. But he showed as much in college as any of the guys they could have taken this year and was a projected 2nd-3rd round pick last year. Well, since he couldn't play due to injury, it's basically as if the Pats drafted this guy THIS year, but with the added bonus of having at least been a part of the Pats' organization for a full year. If the Pats had drafted someone like him this year, people here would have been saying, ok, well at least they got a guy that can rush the passer.

So what the Patriots appear to be banking on in terms of an improved pass rush are:

- Continued development from Flowers and Wise.
- Essentially a draft pick in Rivers.
- Free agent addition of Clayborn.
- Improved health of Hightower.

Of all these, ironically the one I'd count on the least is Hightower's health. But I see no reason why Flowers and Wise won't improve. I see no reason to think that Rivers can't help. I see no reason to think that Clayborn won't bring some added pass rush.

They have addressed the pass rush. It's just not with a shiny new 2018 draft pick.

Elsewhere on defense...

- They got younger at LB. Not sure about *better*, but younger, adding the two LBs in the draft. The more I read about these two, the more excited I get that they can contribute.

- They should be improved up the middle. Branch was awful in 2017. They return Valentine from injury and they added Shelton, who is solid.

- They did nicely in the secondary. Dawson will stick. Crosson will be a special teams ace to begin with but has the physical tools, with the right coaching, to eventually be an NFL corner. Plus they added Jason McCourty, who has been, the past two years, as good as Butler was in 2017. They also get Jonathan Jones back, and he was making positive strides before his injury. Cyrus Jones is a wild card - tons of physical talent, with the potential to put it together (or not). Sounds like basically drafting a corner.

So they HAVE addressed the defense. It should be better across the board this year. Will it be "elite"? Probably not. But it should be solid. And solid should be enough given the caliber of the offense they should be able to field.

 

[Triumph]

Points allowed is a meaningless stat now?

Its the only stat that people can come up with to justify a 31st ranked defense.

The only reason why the defense is not so glaring is Brady hides the ugly truth.

 

[Triumph]

By that argument, one could say drafting offense was the correct choice. Philly's offense made the plays when they needed it though, the Pats did not.

The NE offense was ranked 1st.
The PHI defense was ranked 5th.

Just how much better does this offense need to be?

 

[RobertWeathers]

31st defense.

Best QB in the game.

Keep drinking the kool aid

Oh so you are one of those fans who refuses to acknowledge points allowed as an important defensive metric.

Gotcha.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'm not paid to find that guy and if I did have a name all the mini Mel's would chime in how the guy sucks. Some team drafted a defensive stud late that everyone will regret passing by in lieu of JAG.

Just like the Steelers always find Wrs no matter what round.

Well, you are coming off as being educated enough to criticize a pick so I assume you have insights into who they should have selected at rd1/31 or what they should have done to draft an impact front 7 player.

 

[Simpelton]

It’s silly to count injured players coming back as additions since we’re likely to lose different players due to injury because of the nature of the sport. And the most important guy coming back, Hightower, is a chronic injury risk already.

So getting players back from injury somehow doesn't count because other players will get hurt? I'm sure you thought that was logical when you typed it but...

Conceded about Hightower in particular but the defense shouldn't be too dependent on one linebacker in the first place.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

The NE offense was ranked 1st.
The PHI defense was ranked 5th.

Just how much better does this offense need to be?

So every player from that #1 ranked offense was returning before the draft started? And here I thought we no longer had Solder, Cooks, Lewis and Amendola. But no improvements ever need to be made to that side of the ball, ever, because we have Tom Brady.

And I'm certainly not giving our defense a free pass but it was a Philly offense that two weeks earlier had destroyed the Vikings, who had the #1 defense in yards allowed and points. (With that same backup QB) Do you think the Vikings should have taken all that money they gave Cousins and put it on the D?

 

[Sicilian]

Its the only stat that people can come up with to justify a 31st ranked defense.

The only reason why the defense is not so glaring is Brady hides the ugly truth.

It's only "31st" if all you care about is yards. Last I checked, games are won by scoring more points than the other team, not amassing more yards.

Not that I don't want to see more talent added to the defense, but I think you're overreacting to a Super Bowl loss against a team that also scored at will against a very good Vikings defense.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Cut me a break. the Patriots finished 5th in the NFL in points allowed in 2017, one-tenth of a point behind the Eagles. They re-signed their guys, picked up DE Adrian Clayborn and DT Danny Shelton as FAs and have five more picks today. The secondary is excellent, especially with the additions of CBs McCourty and Dawson.

I agree that today should be defense and an obscure rookie QB who will make us forget that Tom Brady ever played here. (No pressure, Bill Belichick, the GM.)

Stop acting like this is Cleveland or Indianapolis who couldn't stop Mitch McConnell from scoring no matter how hard they tried.

Also don't forget that nobody was having any luck stopping the Eagles offense at the end of last year, that SB was easy to predict as a track meet. The D did tighten up late in the game. Not a hopeless defense by any stretch.

 

[Triumph]

By the numbers

PHI 8th ranked offense
NE 31st ranked defense

Phi 5th ranked in passing offense.
NE 21st ranked passing defense.

Phi 17th ranked rush offense
NE 30th ranked rush defense. Btw, Brown did not do the job vs the run.

 

[50-yard-line]

It is reasonable to argue that the Pats should have spent some back end capital to move up in the 1st and grab Evans or even Vander Esch. That's a reasonable disagreement.

It is reasonable to argue that the Pats should have grabbed Landry at 31, or moved up from 43 to get him. That's a reasonable disagreement.

It is reasonable to argue that the Pats should have taken a flyer on Maurice Hurst before pick 140. That's a reasonable disagreement.

Do those three players change the defense? And at what cost?
Landry would require a scheme change and Mo Hurst is good, but is he healthy?

And "by the rankings" for a defense is ethereal - a talking point and nothing more.

Should Minnesota fix its defense after getting blown out by a backup QB in the NFCCG?
Should Philly fix its defense after giving up 500+ passing yards in the SB?

And again

 

[DaBruinz]

Rivers has shown what? Nothing and.all the smoke and mirror guys have him as stud. Facts remain. Rivers is 1 year behind in development. He has not faced the rigors of a 16 game NFL season.

Brown is a disappointment and has not liked up to his billing.That is why Shelton is here. I have high hopes for him, but that's it.

The pass rush is still a huge question mark and its riding on Rivers and Clayborn
I would have to have seen a LB at 31 instead of Sony. You saw what happened after Hightower got hurt.

You really should stop talking because with every post it just gets worse.

You claim the Patriots didn't help their front 7, yet you downplay or outright ignore the following:
Danny Shelton
Adrian Clayborn
Christian Sam
Ja'Whaun Bentley
Valentine's return from injury
Hightower's return from injury
Langi's return from injury
River's return from injury

BTW, since you clearly weren't paying attention in TC, Rivers was getting high marks for setting the edge and for his pass rush when playing against opponents 1s..

You're also ignoring that Wise made huge strides last year and that, despite being a late edition to the team, so did Eric Lee.

The additions of Duke Dawson and Keion Crossen to the secondary along with Jason McCourty should make up for the fact that Butler is gone and that Jonathan Jones is likely to start the season on the PUP.

As for your claim about Malcolm Brown being a "bust", that's just you talking out your rear end. Maybe YOU expected him to be the next Vince Wilfork, but most people expected him to be a solid starter. He's not the reason Shelton was brought in. They play two different positions on the D-line. Brown is better as an Under-Tackle while Shelton is more of a Nose Tackle. Brown was playing out of position last year because Alan Branch wasn't on the field.

 

[DaBruinz]

Lets see.

2017 Pats were # 1 passing, # 3 in rushing and # 3 at Special teams.

Might the problem be NEs 31 ranked defense? Nah, they were 5 in some meaningless stat that makes some people all warm and fuzzy.

They gave up
42 KC
33 Houston
33 Carolina
27 Miami
24 Pittsburgh
41 Philadelphia

NE narrowly beat Houston, lost to Carolina, escaped Pittsburgh with a win because of a dropped TD pass. Dodged NYJ because of a dropped TD pass.

31 Pittsburgh
24 NY

No lead was safe unless it was vs a bad team. Jacksonville moved the ball on NE and gave the Pats all they could handle.

Your true colors are really shining through..

You claim that the Patriots won because of the calls in Pittsburgh and NY, but ignore the fact that the only reason that Philly won was because the league used the NEW CATCH RULES in the SB instead of the ones they'd used all season. And that accounted for 2 TDs for Philly. Otherwise the Pats win it handedly.

Gotta love when you claim that Points allowed is "a meaningless stat". It's routinely acknowledged that Yards Allowed is the meaningless stat and that Points Allowed is a better indicator of a defense.


Also gotta love when you act like Houston, Carolina, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are crap teams that the Pats should have walked over. You totally dismiss them with your pathetic argument.