Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Steve102]

So Now we can rule out that butler had a fight with a coach an hour before game time.

So Butler DEFINITELY DID NOT:

miss curfew(denied by BB, Butler)
use Drugs(denied by BB, Butler)
Hit a coach just before the game(denied by BB, Butler, McCourty they knew he wasn't going to start for at least a week)

So far this is all shaping up to be the biggest blunder of a BB's career. It make ZERO sense to bench the guy who played 98% of the snaps, and then give him ZERO snaps in the superbowl.

As someone else pointed out Butler rated in the 70s among CB While Rowe rates in the 50s among CB, making Butler 20 points Higher in rating during the season.

Not putting butler in during the second half of the game after halftime adjustments probably cost the patriots a title.

I can't help but think McCourty is trying to help him do damage control. McCourty says "With all my guys, we're teammates and friends for life." I think it's possible (not definite, sorry) that these guys are rallying to him to help him with the FA period.

I looked for the link on Butler screwing up man/Cover 3 vs. the Jags. I couldn't find it to link it here, but I am sure some of you have seen it. I can't imagine that one play is the reason he saw ZERO snaps, but there is that out there.

I think BB was looking to be bold and was wrong. My gut tells me he thought they were in a huge mismatch vs the Eagles offense and tried something and it didn't work.

As of now, anyone from the Patriots could tell me the sky was blue, and I would want to go outside and check. I am ready to chalk it up, shrug, and move on the the 2018 off-season.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

So Now we can rule out that butler had a fight with a coach an hour before game time.

So Butler DEFINITELY DID NOT:

miss curfew(denied by BB, Butler)
use Drugs(denied by BB, Butler)
Hit a coach just before the game(denied by BB, Butler, McCourty they knew he wasn't going to start for at least a week)

We can't rule out anything and your "DEFINITELY DID NOT" means nothing, because it assumes that people with every incentive to mislead/spin the media on this told the truth. Maybe they did tell the truth, but to take it for granted that they did is hopelessly naive.

We've known for over a week now that Butler wasn't going to start. Heck, we knew that the day after the game. It's not anything new. Even the players who said they didn't know until "just before kickoff" that Butler wasn't playing knew he wasn't going to start and would have a greatly-reduced role.

The still (and perhaps forever) unanswered questions are (1) why did Butler get downgraded from "not starting" to "not even playing", (2) when did that downgrade happen, and (3) why was Belichick unwilling to put him in on defense at all. As for (2), it sure seems like that downgrade happened very, very late, since players (like Rowe) said they didn't know Butler wasn't going to play defense at all until just before kickoff.

As for (3), I don't buy for a second the silly "arrogant Belichick was being petty and spiteful" spiel from the haters. If NE won that game Belichick would have been the all-time NFL leader in championship wins by a coach and NE would have tied PIT for all-time NFL championship wins by a franchise. That's not something he was going to risk on a whim or out of pettiness.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I can't help but think McCourty is trying to help him do damage control. McCourty says "With all my guys, we're teammates and friends for life." I think it's possible (not definite, sorry) that these guys are rallying to him to help him with the FA period.

I looked for the link on Butler screwing up man/Cover 3 vs. the Jags. I couldn't find it to link it here, but I am sure some of you have seen it. I can't imagine that one play is the reason he saw ZERO snaps, but there is that out there.

I think BB was looking to be bold and was wrong. My gut tells me he thought they were in a huge mismatch vs the Eagles offense and tried something and it didn't work.

As of now, anyone from the Patriots could tell me the sky was blue, and I would want to go outside and check. I am ready to chalk it up, shrug, and move on the the 2018 off-season.

That's absolutely what it is. BB was trying to help Butler, too, as is McCourty. Or, even Brady, giving Butler a thumbs up on his instagram account, it's all them knowing Butler is gone after Butler himself, thinks he's worth a 4 year deal at 7 mil per+.

It's not personal with him, but his mental psyche was clearly shaken like a scorned lover's. BB is doing the classy thing, as are all his former teammates.

I saw a damaging stat recently...Butler went from a 78 passer rating against in 2016 to a 103 in 2017, AFTER he rejected the 7 mil per. Yikes.

I also think the coaches didn't like Butler's body language early in the year, trying to blame Gilmore on the field. Those blown coverages were more on Butler than Gilmore. But, Butler appeared to be gesturing when one would happen, even to guys like McCourty. Sorry, but I saw enough of those in Sept to know what I was seeing.

Clearly, BB shifting the money over to Gilmore is something Butler never really got over, mentally. It showed in his play and all some fans see is Butler from the goal line in SB 49, even though it's 2018.

Butler checked out and BB lost trust. Sad, but that is what apparently slowly happened throughout the year.

I also believe the "it was hard to get Butler ready for games" rumor, because it parallels the facts we have.

PS - Butler's 2015 season was not as great as people think. He had a 94 passer rating against. He was living off SB 49's heroics. Over-achiever, battler, big heart, but he's not a 7+ mil per year guy and had a down year, technically.

 

[chasa]

We can't rule out anything and your "DEFINITELY DID NOT" means nothing, because it assumes that people with every incentive to mislead/spin the media on this told the truth. Maybe they did tell the truth, but to take it for granted that they did is hopelessly naive.

We've known for over a week now that Butler wasn't going to start. Heck, we knew that the day after the game. It's not anything new. Even the players who said they didn't know until "just before kickoff" that Butler wasn't playing knew he wasn't going to start and would have a greatly-reduced role.

The still (and perhaps forever) unanswered questions are (1) why did Butler get downgraded from "not starting" to "not even playing", (2) when did that downgrade happen, and (3) why was Belichick unwilling to put him in on defense at all. As for (2), it sure seems like that downgrade happened very, very late, since players (like Rowe) said they didn't know Butler wasn't going to play defense at all until just before kickoff.

As for (3), I don't buy for a second the silly "arrogant Belichick was being petty and spiteful" spiel from the haters. If NE won that game Belichick would have been the all-time NFL leader in championship wins by a coach and NE would have tied PIT for all-time NFL championship wins by a franchise. That's not something he was going to risk on a whim or out of pettiness.

You can theorycraft all you want.

The coaches said nothing happened, they felt he wasn't good enough
Butler said nothing happened, and he thinks the coaches gave up on him and thought he wasn't good enough.
The players are all supporting butler, by saying nothing happened, Calling the allegations that something happened as being wrong and childish.

So far we have not seen a SINGLE wisp of smoke. Not ONE, yet here you are diasgreeing with every single post, and shouting "But there MIGHT be a fire!!!!"

Are you going to tell me that the hyper competitive Brady would go out of his way to thank Butler for being his teammate if Butler had done something to piss the coaches off to such a degree that they would bench him the day of the game?

Facts are things that we know, I've been using facts as part of my arguement that BB made the WORST decision in his career, and that "why did you bench butler" will be a question he gets asked until the day he leaves this planet and goes to wherever it is people go after they are done living.

If you have something other then "Well its a mystery and so we can't blame the coaches!" Lets hear it, post some more random dudes on twitter saying butler got caught with hookers and blow after curfew. Post some mediot saying butler punched Steve in the lockerroom before the game. Do something to try and make sense of the choice.

don't worry ill wait.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

If Butler himself admitted the coaches gave up on him, what more of a primary source do we need?

Does anyone honestly think that BB and the coaches WANTED to give up on Malcolm Butler?

Read between the lines.

This crap could only happen in Boston. Nowhere else.

"BB is a big meanie and he bullies my favorite players! Tony Mazz and Felger tell me so!"

Translation:

Some players get big heads and get crazy contract numbers in their heads as a result.

 

[mosi]

I can't help but think McCourty is trying to help him do damage control. McCourty says "With all my guys, we're teammates and friends for life." I think it's possible (not definite, sorry) that these guys are rallying to him to help him with the FA period.

I looked for the link on Butler screwing up man/Cover 3 vs. the Jags. I couldn't find it to link it here, but I am sure some of you have seen it. I can't imagine that one play is the reason he saw ZERO snaps, but there is that out there.

I think BB was looking to be bold and was wrong. My gut tells me he thought they were in a huge mismatch vs the Eagles offense and tried something and it didn't work.

As of now, anyone from the Patriots could tell me the sky was blue, and I would want to go outside and check. I am ready to chalk it up, shrug, and move on the the 2018 off-season.

I also agreed with that but am always left wondering when things were going wrong, why not use him? The pats at times look OK on defense - and they forced lots of 3rd downs. I bet BB thought they would stop some of those but did not.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

If Butler himself admitted the coaches gave up on him, what more of a primary source do we need?

Does anyone honestly think that BB and the coaches WANTED to give up on Malcolm Butler?

Read between the lines.

This crap could only happen in Boston. Nowhere else.

"BB is a big meanie and he bullies my favorite players! Tony Mazz and Felger tell me so!"

Translation:

Some players get big heads and get crazy contract numbers in their heads as a result.

Well wtf you want him to say? The fact of the matter's that butler was our second best corner and bb didn't play him. It was an asinine move and maybe one of the worse decisions in super bowl history. You go down in flames with your starters!

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Well wtf you want him to say? The fact of the matter's that butler was our second best corner and bb didn't play him. It was an asinine move and maybe one of the worse decisions in super bowl history. You go down in flames with your starters!

What is it that you are not getting? In the dime alignment Bademosi practiced "it" the most per BB.

Bademosi is also the best tackler we have at CB, statistically speaking.

This means during SB week, they deemed Bademosi superior to Butler. Whether that is accurate or not, is not the discussion unless you are there and you are a defensive coach not agreeing with BB's assessment.

Sure sounds like to me, the flu, the baggage and drama tied to "getting Butler 'ready' every week" as being a bit of a chore (I believe this info), meant Butler was moving down the depth chart.

Just because we weren't aware of this situation in real time, doesn't mean it's not the truth.

I've already explained my disagreement with BB on who was on who, because I think THAT was the bigger flaw, not whether or not Butler got snaps.

Lastly, some of our fans have a hard time simply accepting the opponent played better.

Butler is not Superman and his 103 passer rating against for the season, proves that.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

What is it that you are not getting? In the dime alignment Bademosi practiced "it" the most per BB.

Bademosi is also the best tackler we have at CB, statistically speaking.

This means during SB week, they deemed Bademosi superior to Butler. Whether that is accurate or not, is not the discussion unless you are there and you are a defensive coach not agreeing with BB's assessment.

Sure sounds like to me, the flu, the baggage and drama tied to "getting Butler 'ready' every week" as being a bit of a chore (I believe this info), meant Butler was moving down the depth chart.

Just because we weren't aware of this situation in real time, doesn't mean it's not the truth.

I've already explained my disagreement with BB on who was on who, because I think THAT was the bigger flaw, not whether or not Butler got snaps.

Lastly, some of our fans have a hard time simply accepting the opponent played better.

Butler is not Superman and his 103 passer rating against for the season, proves that.

Bademosi over butler? Are you serious? Better tackler? BB made a foolish move and it might have cost us a super bowl.

 

[Steve102]

I also agreed with that but am always left wondering when things were going wrong, why not use him? The pats at times look OK on defense - and they forced lots of 3rd downs. I bet BB thought they would stop some of those but did not.

Like everyone else, I can't wrap my head around 98% snaps to 0%. It really feels like we are all talking in circles. We've got folks think BB is too much like Parcells and was petty and blew this on purpose. We've got folks that goosestep to IBWT and figure if Malcolm didn't play any snaps, BB must have a good reason. We've got folks that side with the player, and think that he had to be good enough to play, and there's disciplinary reasons that they aren't telling us. We've got guys like me that think that BB made a coaching move and he was wrong. Until Belichick has a long interview or a Do Your Job 3(my wishful thinking, but not reality based), we're not gonna know what the hell they were thinking.

It's frustrating, but I think we are all in whatever camp we are in, and nothing is gonna change it until BB speaks.

 

[Soliel]

Well wtf you want him to say? The fact of the matter's that butler was our second best corner and bb didn't play him. It was an asinine move and maybe one of the worse decisions in super bowl history. You go down in flames with your starters!

I agree, I’d be much more comfortable either living or dying with butler than to ever wonder what could have been. This has not been easy

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Bademosi over butler? Are you serious? Better tackler? BB made a foolish move and it might have cost us a super bowl.

Yes. BB was VERY serious. And, Bademosi played well during his limited time as a fill-in. BB agrees and Bademosi will likely be on this team next year.

Yes, the better tackler as proven by the metrics. Yes.

Very good tackler. Very obvious the millisecond anyone saw him play and why he is good on Special Teams. Yes.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think that after Butler signs a contract we may get more of the story - if there is more of course.

No player , coach, or friend is going to hurt his market value any more than it has already suffered.

His play dropped off this season - dropped off even more in the playoffs - then he had the flu.

Those 3 things we know for sure and I doubt anyone wishes the worst for his future - even Belichick.

 

[Soliel]

Here’s my gut feeling on all this. I thought no browner is right and Malcom was smoking drugs, staying out late and having women in the hotel making it not possible to play him. He knew he blew it and was in tears.

You know there are more nerve endings in your gut than in your head. You can look it up. Now, I know a whole bunch of you are going to post that you looked it up and it’s not true but that’s because you looked it up in a book. Should’ve looked it up on n your gut lol

 

[captain stone]

Bump....

Please keep it civil and productive.

Smart move to keep the thread deservedly open.

 

[Steve102]

would you care to count who has the most posts in this thread?

 

[IllegalContact]

There is no excuse for not giving butler a chance in the 2nd half......case closed

To suggest otherwise is to profess to your own extreme

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Like everyone else, I can't wrap my head around 98% snaps to 0%. It really feels like we are all talking in circles. We've got folks think BB is too much like Parcells and was petty and blew this on purpose. We've got folks that goosestep to IBWT and figure if Malcolm didn't play any snaps, BB must have a good reason. We've got folks that side with the player, and think that he had to be good enough to play, and there's disciplinary reasons that they aren't telling us. We've got guys like me that think that BB made a coaching move and he was wrong. Until Belichick has a long interview or a Do Your Job 3(my wishful thinking, but not reality based), we're not gonna know what the hell they were thinking.

It's frustrating, but I think we are all in whatever camp we are in, and nothing is gonna change it until BB speaks.

Could it be that BB gave Butler (in his mind) as many chances to show he was better than the 103 passer rating against, and with Butler's poor AFC Title game, that was it?

What's wrong with that conclusion? Face it, if Butler didn't start crying (very concerning to me with his mental preparedness), you wouldn't be questioning this to this degree, especially if they had won. No one would care. I woudn't.

Who features a 103 passer rating against after rejecting a generous 7 mil per extension, and still gets to keep their job automatically?

Usually, players who are allowing a passer rating over 100, get benched.

Again, people have this brainwashed hard-on for Butler as if it's still SB 49.

Butler was very good last year, played into his contract negotiations well, and then completely blew it.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

LOL

would you care to count who has the most posts in this thread?

I am the one doing the counseling. I'm working over time. lmao

I've long since been ok with the idea people like Branch and Butler checked out due to some ego reasons. Stuff like that sometimes is out of BB's control.

Last year, Sheard was benched and then he came back and responded.

 

[Soliel]

To me Chris, it’s a bit more than just a game. People are injured and wind up messed up for life. That one reason is enough for me to view it as more even tho I have other reasons. There are 45 year old cowboys wandering around who can’t remember where they live but hey, right, it’s just a game

Just a game in my mind is checkers, go fish, even poker. No one is hurt for life and there are nit room fulls of people who don’t remember their names. How can I view this sport as “just” a game?