Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Well, how many times have we seen a BB "starting lineup" where it means nothing with how the game goes? I mean, Eric Lee "started", but so many times BB shows a team something schematically, to see how they react.

The crying from Butler sort of proves he knew he was wrong with whatever his antics were.

In SB 39, we came out in a 4-3 base, which never saw all year. This meant one of the 4 starting LBs didn't "start". Did that player cry over it? No.

Again, disappointing from Butler, and it's pretty clear that may be one of they reasons as to why BB was in no way shape or form going to go to a 4 year deal with him.

If you look at ANY high profile CBs deals here, he never goes for years on those. I was a Leigh Bodden guy when he was in Cleveland and Detroit, and I loved that move and the 1 year prove it deal, but the guy had a career ending back injury, where BB sort of got burned on it.

Revis's deal, no Gilmore's, BB pays, but he won't give years.

I don't care about antics. He wasn't coming back anyway. Any player would get emotional for getting pulled at the last minute. He came out and defended himself. Our coaching staff was inept in the super bowl.

 

[aluminum seats]

I think it's a faith thing. I have faith that Belichick wouldn't have messed with Butler for anything but a very serious reason, at least in his own mind. Belichick may play favorites a bit, but he's not going to shoot himself in the foot on purpose.

This is not "I'm sure he had his reasons." This is "Bill would ABSOLUTELY NOT HAVE DONE THIS unless he felt he had NO CHOICE WHATSOEVER." It goes so entirely against his character that something had to have happened that either transcends football, which for Bill I'd have to wonder exactly what that could possibly have been, or if he was convinced that there was no value whatsoever in playing Butler.

Anything that I honestly think bill would consider grounds for an action that drastic, I'm OK with the benching. I can't imagine him not giving Butler every chance. We've had toxic people on the team before and won with them. This is NOT a boy scout troop, and Bill knows that. The standard that would have to be breached for me to see Belichick sacrificing his best chance to win to make a statement is so high, that I'm actually almost automatically OK with it exactly because I know he'd never do such a thing unless he felt he had no choice at all.

This sums up the magical thinking going on here.

"If Belichick did it, it was right."

Blindly following leaders has led to all kinds of nasty outcomes throughout history. In this case, it just a lost Super Bowl, so that's good.

 

[aluminum seats]

The crying from Butler sort of proves he knew he was wrong with whatever his antics were.

"The crying from Butler sort of proves he knew what Belichick was doing was wrong."

Hey, making crap up is fun, I see why you do it so much.

 

[bormio]

I don’t understand all this angst over Butler crying. Ever see a guy get hurt at the end of the season? Welker in Houston in 2009. Butler was told he was not going to play - I would be stunned if he wasn’t emotional.

 

[lancerman]

This sums up the magical thinking going on here.

"If Belichick did it, it was right."

Blindly following leaders has led to all kinds of nasty outcomes throughout history. In this case, it's just a lost Super Bowl, so that's good.

Exactly. Some people are adverse to saying, "hmmm our secondary got torched, we took out one of our top CB's, as a result had lesser CB's in and players playing off position, maybe that wasn't the best idea".

 

[IllegalContact]

That's not really what I said- I said I highly doubt BB would have benched those elite guys in their prime. People are talking like Butler is elite but that doesn't mean he is anything close to it. Clearly judging by Bill's decision he does not believe Butler is an elite corner either and IMO he is correct.

There's no reason to guarantee that Butler would be "better" than those guys in that game either. He was on the field in the Chiefs game and he saw his defense get lit up for over 500 yards. He played poorly too. Clearly didn't make much difference there so it's quite possible BB had the opinion this would be more of the same.

you lack the capacity for rational critical thought........you're floating around in la la land with no thought other than BB made the right one........that's fine, everyone has their binky

 

[Chris Stevenson]

"The crying from Butler sort of proves he knew what Belichick was doing was wrong."

Hey, making crap up is fun, I see why you do it so much.

um, er, well, why did he cry?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I don't care about antics. He wasn't coming back anyway. Any player would get emotional for getting pulled at the last minute. He came out and defended himself. Our coaching staff was inept in the super bowl.

wow..so, you can show me examples of pats players who weren’t in on the opening drives’ gameplans crying on tv after learning of it?

please show us these examples:

 

[Soliel]

I do not want him going to the jetes

 

[IllegalContact]

I don't care about antics. He wasn't coming back anyway. Any player would get emotional for getting pulled at the last minute. He came out and defended himself. Our coaching staff was inept in the super bowl.

at that point, given the individual circumstances, the only goal is to win the super bowl.....or it should have been.....obviously something else took priority over that one thing

 

[IllegalContact]

wow..so, you can show me examples of pats players who weren’t in on the opening drives’ gameplans crying on tv after learning of it?

please show us these examples:

after you show us an example of anything you've been blathering about for the last 1.5 weeks

I can tell you that playoff benchings have produced a perfectly bad result: Tully Banta-Cain in 2006 AFCC, Welker in 2010 Div, and Butler in 2017 SB.

Care to tell me when a benching has worked?

 

[Steve102]

um, er, well, why did he cry?

 

[aluminum seats]

um, er, well, why did he cry?

Most likely because he was being benched for the Super Bowl.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

I do not want him going to the jetes

well, he would be delusional to want to go there and brady and co. would shred him anyway.

if people thought he was that good as an rfa last year, he would havd an offer sheet to steal him away from us.

sb 49 was 3 years ago

the scouting report on him is probably this:

“better in zone than man”

“overachiever/big heart/battler”

“lacks range/speed past 10 yard box”

“more of a nickel than a perimeter cb”

“solid tackler”

 

[The Brandon Five]

In SB 39, we came out in a 4-3 base, which never saw all year. This meant one of the 4 starting LBs didn't "start". Did that player cry over it? No.

Did the D give up 41 points in SB 39?

 

[sb1]

you lack the capacity for rational critical thought........you're floating around in la la land with no thought other than BB made the right one........that's fine, everyone has their binky

I'm afraid the take that requires rational and critical thought is the opposite of what you think it is.

I have no binky. The defense got destroyed in week 1 against a very similar game plan with Butler in the game. So as I said, there's no reason why anyone should guarantee that this result would be different than that hypothetical and fictional one with him playing, nor that he would be any better last Sunday than the guys playing.

 

[Kontradiction]

this is what you get with people attempting to read between some really really basic lines.......which typically happens when protecting a POV rather than actually getting to a point

The only shade of gray here is exactly why it happened. That's something we'll find out prior to the 2018 season I would imagine. Whether or not it hurt the defense is very much black or white and I don't see how anyone can, with a straight face, say it didn't.

 

[Kontradiction]

I'm afraid the take that requires rational and critical thought is the opposite of what you think it is.

I have no binky. The defense got destroyed in week 1 against a very similar game plan with Butler in the game. So as I said, there's no reason why anyone should guarantee that this result would be different than that hypothetical and fictional one with him playing, nor that he would be any better last Sunday than the guys playing.

I don't think you can compare the two games. Week 1 was a product of new faces all over the defense and broken coverages leading to big plays. The Super Bowl didn't see any of that. It was just a bad defense, with players playing out position, surrendering one long drive after another and then proceeding to break in the red zone.

 

[IllegalContact]

I'm afraid the take that requires rational and critical thought is the opposite of what you think it is.

I have no binky. The defense got destroyed in week 1 against a very similar game plan with Butler in the game. So as I said, there's no reason why anyone should guarantee that this result would be different than that hypothetical and fictional one with him playing, nor that he would be any better last Sunday than the guys playing.

the comparisons to the chiefs game are bogus........

 

[lancerman]

wow..so, you can show me examples of pats players who weren’t in on the opening drives’ gameplans crying on tv after learning of it?

please show us these examples:

How many times in Patriots history has a player who played bar none the most snaps on his side of the ball all season up to that point gotten told they would not be playing at all while healthy in the Super Bowl?

You work your body to the bone all year, you play more on defense than anybody else, now it's the big game and the coach takes you out of it? Yeah anybody would be upset over that.