Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Chris Stevenson]

The two people that would know the most are Butler and the coaching staff and they both said it was strictly a football coaching decision. Nobody on the team has said anything like that.

Howe, Giarardi, Butler and everyone else were following up based off a post by that unverified account. So basically you are believing an unverified account over anybody credible.

Sorry. I am just not that naive. We don't need every gory detail of the hows and the whats to deduce this benching was not just a scheme thing.

You don't go from 97% of the snaps on average to 0 overnight "just because".

There obviously were triggers SB week, on top of whatever he was doing beforehand.

The inside info was cultivated by trustworthy sources, and that's that.

It's pretty obvious Butler wanted to retire a Patriot, which he said himself, and was apparently hurt that BB wouldn't give him the years. It bothered him all year with his up and down play, body language and gesturing, Bedard and others mentioned his issues during the year, and the SB happened.

Anyone believe it was just scheme is not paying attention. Sure, it may have been part of it, but I don't believe BB concocted some random way to embarrass Butler for no reason.

 

[archstanton543]

I think the problem here is making good sense of the benching being purely a "football" decision. Perhaps that needs to be considered in broader terms encompassing aspects of the player's behavior.

They could be playing a semantics game. Since they're football coaches and the question is in context of a football game, every decision they make is "football decision".

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think what is missing is the facts related to the 'flu' as opposed to the other gossip.
Absent of the flu most of the rest of the story would reveal what the curious seek to understand.
That he had the flu before the rest of this story played out cannot be discounted -

if he indeed really had the flu or followed team protocol for it.

 

[aluminum seats]

All we can do from this end is attempt to logically define the possibilities. I personally find two of the three possibilities I itemized illogical.

Fair enough. But I think you might want to consider there's an element of horrific gaffe here.

@IllegalContact references the "Patriot Way." There are always graduations and levels to things. There is sound leadership and there is fanatacism. Belichick has screwed up before (Seymour's grandmother), but never with a Super Bowl at stake.

This. I am going with what you said, makes the most sense to me.

"This?" The point there is pretty hard to see.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I understand why Belichick is staying silent about the issue, it’s a good policy, even if he does take huge amounts of sh.t about it, but if Malcolm Butler really believes he didn’t deserve the benching then why doesn’t he say what he did to precipitate the benching? Imo it must have been pretty serious for him to not want that out there.

BINGO! You've got bingo!

 

[QuantumMechanic]

This is the sort of thing I've been trying to say. People have been interpreting "it was a football decision" too narrowly.

I've been saying that since the day after the game! There's a huge amount of wiggle room in "it was a football decision".

 

[Kontradiction]

I understand why Belichick is staying silent about the issue, it’s a good policy, even if he does take huge amounts of sh.t about it, but if Malcolm Butler really believes he didn’t deserve the benching then why doesn’t he say what he did to precipitate the benching? Imo it must have been pretty serious for him to not want that out there.

If that's the case, it must have been EXTREMELY serious for Belichick to essentially destabilize the strength of the defense, make the entire unit a weakness, and to keep him off the field when the unit was getting lit up like Sonny Corleone at a toll booth. I'm of the wait and see approach and don't really have a dog in the fight either way until more information comes out (and I suspect it will in the coming months).

 

[FCB02062]

Guys, Donte Stallworth actually killed a guy...and only did 30 days

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I'm of the wait and see approach and don't really have a dog in the fight either way until more information comes out (and I suspect it will in the coming months).

Both sides are highly incentivized to say nothing and let it die down at least until Butler has signed his next contract with whatever team he goes to. I think after he's inked a deal things will start to dribble out from both sides.

 

[Kontradiction]

Both sides are highly incentivized to say nothing and let it die down at least until Butler has signed his next contract with whatever team he goes to. I think after he's inked a deal things will start to dribble out from both sides.

That's when I'm expecting to hear more as well. Until then, it's impossible to make a decision on it one way or another. The only thing we can be sure of is that it completely destabilized the secondary and had a direct hand in costing the team a Super Bowl win.

 

[Simpelton]

That's when I'm expecting to hear more as well. Until then, it's impossible to make a decision on it one way or another. The only thing we can be sure of is that it completely destabilized the secondary and had a direct hand in costing the team a Super Bowl win.

Can't judge such thing in a vacuum. As you say, all the details are not out, and you can't judge a decision like this until you know what the actual alternatives were.

 

[chasa]

All we can do from this end is attempt to logically define the possibilities. I personally find two of the three possibilities I itemized illogical.

i find it illogical that butler broke a rule, that he was benched in the biggest game of the year, and that not a single person, not a player, not a trainer, not a staff member, has said ANYTHING regarding butler breaking a rule.

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

In this case there isn't any smoke, there isn't any fire, there is just some dude in the shadows yelling fire, while everyone inside the house is shouting back, actually no, no fire here.

 

[Joey007]

aaaaaaannnnnnnd a ...................... bump

Bumpitty bump bump.

 

[Kontradiction]

Can't judge such thing in a vacuum. As you say, all the details are not out, and you can't judge a decision like this until you know what the actual alternatives were.

I'm not judging the reasons why he got benched. But I think it's safe to judge that the secondary, which was a strength of the defense, suddenly became a weakness as well with the combination of Chung cover Agholor, Rowe playing CB2, and Richards even being on the field at all. Now the team was fielding a unit with a weak front seven to go along with a weak secondary. Those were the inputs of the equation. The output was 41 points surrendered.

 

[IllegalContact]

Let's do a character analysis.

On the one hand, we have a player who threw away chances in college based on misbehavior and terrible attitude and was working at a fast food restaurant when he got a last chance, was signed as a UDFA, and made good for a few years and was a top player for us before he started to feel disrespected after recent contract talks went sour and after that the attitude problems started to resurface in the last year or so

Versus

A man who for 18 years has been doing what he felt was best for the franchise and its ownership and their best possible chance of winning Superbowls with a single-minded, almost religious devotion to that goal above almost all else.

It is entirely within Butler's character to backslide into the guy who blew his first couple chances at making a life out of football and wound up a UDFA despite what should have been second- or third-round talent.

It is entirely within Bill Belichick's character to size that situation up as it's happening and make the football decision that Butler's deteriorating character does not allow him to be a viable option in the Superbowl and decide that putting the best possible team on the field is more important than putting the best possible jersey names on the field, and that Butler is not part of his best possible team anymore.

That would be technically a football rather than a disciplinary situation, it would fit both the character of the two men and all the available facts. Butler backslid to the behaviors and personality that got him kicked out of college the first time round, and Bill decided that he couldn't trust him to perform at the level we'd come to expect, and that he couldn't risk putting a player he didn't trust on the field.

this along with 0.99 will get you a cup of coffee at cumbies

it really is a valid reason to go out of your way to reduce your chances of winning the super bowl

 

[IllegalContact]

I've been saying that since the day after the game! There's a huge amount of wiggle room in "it was a football decision".

not when you're playing for the super bowl........if he can help on the field, then you play him......there's no fricking wiggle room at all

and that quote 'we tried to put the team in the best position to win the game' is pure bullsh.t

 

[Soliel]

The whole situation just sucks. There are no good answers, no info, everything about it is senseless

 

[Steve102]

I understand why Belichick is staying silent about the issue, it’s a good policy, even if he does take huge amounts of sh.t about it, but if Malcolm Butler really believes he didn’t deserve the benching then why doesn’t he say what he did to precipitate the benching? Imo it must have been pretty serious for him to not want that out there.

He's moved on to 2018. Nothing left to talk about.

Let's do a character analysis.

On the one hand, we have a player who threw away chances in college based on misbehavior and terrible attitude and was working at a fast food restaurant when he got a last chance, was signed as a UDFA, and made good for a few years and was a top player for us before he started to feel disrespected after recent contract talks went sour and after that the attitude problems started to resurface in the last year or so

Versus

A man who for 18 years has been doing what he felt was best for the franchise and its ownership and their best possible chance of winning Superbowls with a single-minded, almost religious devotion to that goal above almost all else.

It is entirely within Butler's character to backslide into the guy who blew his first couple chances at making a life out of football and wound up a UDFA despite what should have been second- or third-round talent.

It is entirely within Bill Belichick's character to size that situation up as it's happening and make the football decision that Butler's deteriorating character does not allow him to be a viable option in the Superbowl and decide that putting the best possible team on the field is more important than putting the best possible jersey names on the field, and that Butler is not part of his best possible team anymore.

That would be technically a football rather than a disciplinary situation, it would fit both the character of the two men and all the available facts. Butler backslid to the behaviors and personality that got him kicked out of college the first time round, and Bill decided that he couldn't trust him to perform at the level we'd come to expect, and that he couldn't risk putting a player he didn't trust on the field.

Nailed it. Great post. This should be the final post on this AND the Butler thread.

Can we move this to the Butler thread?

 

[Simpelton]

I'm not judging the reasons why he got benched. But I think it's safe to judge that the secondary, which was a strength of the defense, suddenly became a weakness as well with the combination of Chung cover Agholor, Rowe playing CB2, and Richards even being on the field at all. Now the team was fielding a unit with a weak front seven to go along with a weak secondary. Those were the inputs of the equation. The output was 41 points surrendered.

Agaimn, the X factor is what the actual alternatives were. You seem to be of the opinion that one of the alternatives was playing Butler. I'm of the opinion that that remains to be seen. There are a number of possible reasons why that option could have proven to be illusionary.

 

[Kontradiction]

Agaimn, the X factor is what the actual alternatives were. You seem to be of the opinion that one of the alternatives was playing Butler. I'm of the opinion that that remains to be seen. There are a number of possible reasons why that option could have proven to be illusionary.

Playing Butler was an alternative until we hear otherwise what was happening that was serious enough to tank the Super Bowl. He dressed, after all. That’s an alternative.