Malcolm Butler Mega Thread

[Huckleberry1]

I don't think he's a JAG coach, I just think Tom is more responsible for the success of this team than Bill is. Kraft apparently agrees.

Where did Kraft say Brady is more responsible for the Patriots success?

Let’s see that quote?

Or you can concede that you are full of sh.t.

 

[luuked]

If Brady doesn't get sacked and marches down the field to score a TD putting the game out of range is anyone talking about this? Belichick would be saying the same thing but reactions would be different. I'm choosing to believe what Bill is saying and yes I'm assigning blame on that game plan and very little adjustment. Until something concrete comes out, Bill took a risk and came up short. It almost worked until it didn't.

Bingo.

The entire Seahawks timeout situation sums it up perfectly. He saw something and took a risk. It worked out and everyone called him a genius for it. Had it not worked out people would compare him to Andy Reid in terms of clock management.

This time he benched someone who missed more practices than he attended during SB week and thought it was a great idea to break some team rules the night before the SB. Instead he played the players who were at practice and all meetings and adhered to the rules. We came up one stop/strip sack short.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword..

 

[Huckleberry1]

No, we're not in kindergarten; that's why we don't blow something as important as a Super Bowl over Butler being put in time out for tardiness. Bill didn't do his job. He didn't put his best players on the field. He hurt his own team.

Wow!

How did you find out the reason Belichick sat Butler?

Share that link with us so we can see it as well.

 

[chumpchange]

His career isn't all in New England.

And good for him 19-19 isn't a winning record.

195-55 (.780)
Oh and 27 playoff wins vs 0 in NE without Brady (and 1 total in the rest of his 7 year career).

Don't need to hear it. He's a losing coach without Brady. Even taking the most selective sample size possible he's still only .500. Yet with Brady he's the winningest coach of all time and has the record for playoff wins.

We can only read the numbers and the fact is Bill had not been a winning coach until Brady arrived. "He took over a team that had gone 27-21 under three seasons with Pete Carroll and went 5-11 despite the presence of Drew Bledsoe on the roster. It was only when Bledsoe went down with a sheared blood vessel in his chest two games into the 2001 season that Belichick turned things over to Brady, who took over until the AFC Championship Game", and we see how things went after that.

 

[chumpchange]

Wow!

How did you find out the reason Belichick sat Butler?

Share that link with us so we can see it as well.

Ian Rapoport's twitter. "My understanding is the benching of #Patriots CB Malcolm Butler happened because of a perfect storm of issues: Sickness, a rough week of practice, and a minor rule violation believed to be related to curfew. A complicated matter." See anything in there egregious enough to warrant throwing away a championship?

 

[Chris Stevenson]

That’s how I see it as well.

Yep. I also would bet money BB acquired Bademosi as insurance in case he could deal Butler at the deadline.

I have no proof of this obviously, but it's what BB does. He trades for guys well ahead of time as leverage on the person he thinks might be delusional and irrational.

I am not saying someone like a Mingo was on Jamie Collins level as far as talent, but $100 Mike Lombardi told BB what he'd be getting for a STs player at the LB spot and what to expect, so if he had to deal

Also, I think the McCellin SUPER FAST FA move, was directly tied to Collins's likely outlandish contract demands. So, if he had to deal Collins, with McCallein on season starting IR to get him ready, which he did, poof, there goes Collins.

I don't know where these guys get these numbers, but they don't jive with BB's formula.

Their agents are also incredibly greedy and/or dumb.

I think BB thought Butler could keep it together, but I also think Butler expected to be put into positions to boost his INT numbers, too.

What CB rejects 8 mil per and a chance to play in NE? It's amazing to me.

 

[chumpchange]

Kraft has very little idea of what he is talking about when it comes to football matters, which is why he stays out of the way.

As Kraft has said, NUMEROUS TIMES, acquiring BB is the best move he's ever made.

Brady would be nowhere near as great if he was drafted by someone else. I am not even sure he would have been given a chance.

What makes you think that? He won 20 of his 25 games at Michigan despite not even being given starting reps in practice. And then of course everybody knows his record here. Bill's the one who wasn't winning without Brady; whereas Brady's amassing an 84% winning record without Bill.

 

[upstater1]

Umm, Cassell hadn't played competitive football in a DECADE. Since 1999! He was a back up at USC and then played some scrimmages and preseason games for a while behind Brady.

So, no, you're wrong.

You're also wrong in a sense that NE had TWO back to back West Coast road trips that year, which as we know, are brutal.

Looking at strength of schedule is a weak red herring argument. It was a HUGE challenge to get Cassel up to speed and game ready, and it's an incredible testament to him and the coaching staff.

MOST back up QBs fail miserably. The environment and coaching continuity is the key.

All that is well and good (even thought he schedule was incredibly easy compared to the previous year) but you are comparing Cassel to Brady.

Cassel's are a dime a dozen in the NFL. Even though yes, a good number of backups fail. But a lot of them go on to post gaudy numbers.

Look at freakin Minnesota. Case Keenum. The next Matt Schaub. We see these guys every year. Every year!

 

[Huckleberry1]

Ian Rapoport's twitter. "My understanding is the benching of #Patriots CB Malcolm Butler happened because of a perfect storm of issues: Sickness, a rough week of practice, and a minor rule violation believed to be related to curfew. A complicated matter." See anything in there egregious enough to warrant throwing away a championship?

You said he was “ tardy.” Pretty much everyone realizes it was numerous issues, and I have said that repeatedly. You apparently believe that Butler could practice like crap and not adhere to team rules and expectations and still play.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Ian Rapoport's twitter. "My understanding is the benching of #Patriots CB Malcolm Butler happened because of a perfect storm of issues: Sickness, a rough week of practice, and a minor rule violation believed to be related to curfew. A complicated matter." See anything in there egregious enough to warrant throwing away a championship?

Umm, what about the missed flights and missing the Saturday morning meeting completely?

Yes, I do see a reason for not starting him. BB is VERY consistent. Why don't you ask Butler why he missed flights, looked like crap, smoked dope is he was truly weak and sick from the flu? I am not even buying the flu thing at this point. If you're sick, you're sick. BB is not benching guys for having the trots and still trying to give it a go. Sorry, not buying it.

You are delusional in thinking Butler, one 5'11 CB, was somehow going to morph into Superman and stop a shootout from happening.

It's a shootout, we lost. The two 4th and 1s, were key, if we get one stop, sure, we can probably surmise some positive movement for our team there in the game, but I am not sure Butler magically changes how Philly attacked us and how we mistakenly had the wrong people on their weapons. The latter was the problem, IMO.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Exactly. It's a shame. But, I bet Sean Payton's eyes bugged out of his head after meeting with Butler, with Butler demanding 8 mil per.

There was no clearly no movement or budging from Butler, as BB was all but trying to give him away.

It's very 2007 with Samuel. CB gets big head, which is easy for that position to do, and the player proceeds to be underperforming and selfish, only caring about their contract.

I think Butler played some good games for us this year but he also played some bad ones, leaving the script, while fingerpointing after he freelanced and blew coverages.

This has been widely documented. People wanted to scapegoat Gilmore, and certainly being new in zone coverage, he probably made some early season errors, but he also wasn't trying to deflect blame either.

It's just sad no one Butler respected, pulled him aside and made him realize 8 mil per with NE is as good as it's going to get.

Difference is A$ante had a good year and followed team policy and expectations on how to be a professional.

 

[Huckleberry1]

What makes you think that? He won 20 of his 25 games at Michigan despite not even being given starting reps in practice. And then of course everybody knows his record here. Bill's the one who wasn't winning without Brady; whereas Brady's amassing an 84% winning record without Bill.

Red Auerbach never won a championship without Bill Russell.

Red Auerbach was a JAG coach.

 

[chumpchange]

Where did Kraft say Brady is more responsible for the Patriots success?

Let’s see that quote?

Or you can concede that you are full of sh.t.

Have you not been following the Kraft siding with Tom thing, and pushing the Jimmy trade against Bill's wishes out of allegiance to Tom? Kraft's no idiot. If Bill were the most important component in the team, he'd have catered to him. But he went fully and vocally behind Tom.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

All that is well and good (even thought he schedule was incredibly easy compared to the previous year) but you are comparing Cassel to Brady.

Cassel's are a dime a dozen in the NFL. Even though yes, a good number of backups fail. But a lot of them go on to post gaudy numbers.

Look at freakin Minnesota. Case Keenum. The next Matt Schaub. We see these guys every year. Every year!

I am not comparing Cassell to Brady at all. I am trying to point out how incredible it is to go from high school to the NFL on a high expectation team, when you haven't played, real competitive football in a DECADE. Read that again if you need to.

 

[Huckleberry1]

We can only read the numbers and the fact is Bill had not been a winning coach until Brady arrived. "He took over a team that had gone 27-21 under three seasons with Pete Carroll and went 5-11 despite the presence of Drew Bledsoe on the roster. It was only when Bledsoe went down with a sheared blood vessel in his chest two games into the 2001 season that Belichick turned things over to Brady, who took over until the AFC Championship Game", and we see how things went after that.

We can only read the numbers, Auerbach was just average without Bill Russell.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Have you not been following the Kraft siding with Tom thing, and pushing the Jimmy trade against Bill's wishes out of allegiance to Tom? Kraft's no idiot. If Bill were the most important component in the team, he'd have catered to him. But he went fully and vocally behind Tom.

Complete horsesh:t. Show any proof of any of those claims. In fact all 3 claimed they never happened.

I didn’t realize I was arguing with ESPN, no point in doing that.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Have you not been following the Kraft siding with Tom thing, and pushing the Jimmy trade against Bill's wishes out of allegiance to Tom? Kraft's no idiot. If Bill were the most important component in the team, he'd have catered to him. But he went fully and vocally behind Tom.

First of all, there is no "siding". This means you believe moron Wickersham and other morons and their sensationalist crap.

There is no rift, no siding, nothing. At worst, BB is being blamed for doing his due diligence hitting on a QB prospect and really liking his potential. That is how crazed, deluded and moronic this has all become.

And, you know why? The lying media brainwashes people who just aren't very intelligent, can't use critical thinking skills, and are so naive, they miss clues to be able to use their ******** meter correctly.

 

[Ring 6]

Have you not been following the Kraft siding with Tom thing, and pushing the Jimmy trade against Bill's wishes out of allegiance to Tom? Kraft's no idiot. If Bill were the most important component in the team, he'd have catered to him. But he went fully and vocally behind Tom.

Great let’s start using fake news to make arguments.

 

[Chris Stevenson]

Have you not been following the Kraft siding with Tom thing, and pushing the Jimmy trade against Bill's wishes out of allegiance to Tom? Kraft's no idiot. If Bill were the most important component in the team, he'd have catered to him. But he went fully and vocally behind Tom.

How old are you?

 

[chumpchange]

Umm, what about the missed flights and missing the Saturday morning meeting completely?

Yes, I do see a reason for not starting him. BB is VERY consistent. Why don't you ask Butler why he missed flights, looked like crap, smoked dope is he was truly weak and sick from the flu? I am not even buying the flu thing at this point. If you're sick, you're sick. BB is not benching guys for having the trots and still trying to give it a go. Sorry, not buying it.

You are delusional in thinking Butler, one 5'11 CB, was somehow going to morph into Superman and stop a shootout from happening.

It's a shootout, we lost. The two 4th and 1s, were key, if we get one stop, sure, we can probably surmise some positive movement for our team there in the game, but I am not sure Butler magically changes how Philly attacked us and how we mistakenly had the wrong people on their weapons. The latter was the problem, IMO.

And here are Philly's coaches directly contradicting you:

"While the choice to bench Butler left Patriots fans scratching their heads, it also had a similar impact on the Eagles’ coaching staff. Butler had been one of New England’s best defensive players over the past three seasons. Philadelphia undoubtedly had game planned around attacking, or staying away from Butler, and one of their assistant coaches admitted they were shocked he wasn’t on the field. “After the first series or two,” one assistant told TheMMQB about when they realized Butler wasn’t in the game. “‘We were like, ‘This guy’s not in the game! They have 23 (Patrick Chung) in there. That’s crazy!'”

With Butler out of the game, Chung found himself with the difficult task of guarding Nelson Agholor in the slot, while Eric Rowe was outmatched on the outside against either Alshon Jeffery or Torrey Smith. “To go after 25 (Rowe),” the assistant said of the Eagles’ game plan with Butler out. “We could get Alshon (Jeffery) out there against him. We had Rowe on our team here in Philly, we knew that was a mismatch.”

Read more at: Eagles Assistant Coach Reacts To Patriots’ ‘Crazy’ Malcolm Butler Benching