Examples of why QB is most important position in sports?

[BlitzFritz]

Do you believe that QB is the most important role in sports?
The past couple years have highlighted to me that a QB can make a coach look brilliant. Or horrendous.

1. Jimmy G to SF, obviously
2. Deshaun Watson in Houston. Once he went down Texans look terrible again.
3. Denver, after the Forehead retired. Now they suck.
4. Others?

I mean seriously, if you do not have an elite QB, you have about 10% chance of competing for the SB, correct?

I am sure BB could win with another QB but it would take him some time to find and keep one. In the meantime, we have the GOAT. This morning I tip my cap to TB12.

---> FRITZ

 

[CutiePie]

you are absolutely correct in this

its a QB league.....we have been lucky to have brady all these years.....in addition to BB

SF goes from terrible to very good in the same season with just one changed variable.......Jimmy G

 

[DarrylS]

We were always fed a steady diet of, "defense wins championships"...

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

you are absolutely correct in this

its a QB league.....we have been lucky to have brady all these years.....in addition to BB

SF goes from terrible to very good in the same season with just one changed variable.......Jimmy G

2008 Patriots are another example, although the opposite. Pats went from very good/great to so so with the change in QB.

 

[GoBlue]

One example might be lil Rusty in Seattle. Only a good QB because he had an outstanding defense. And his ability to run the ball better than most running backs made him somewhat effective.. He would not make any other team better.

 

[slam]

One example might be lil Rusty in Seattle. Only a good QB because he had an outstanding defense. And his ability to run the ball better than most running backs made him somewhat effective.. He would not make any other team better.

You don't think he could make Jacksonville better if swapped for Bortles? Or Denver? Or any other QB poor team?

 

[nabwong]

It’s a combination of the role and the rules now. The NFL’s focus is to make as much money as possible. They need poster boys, points and highlights. People would rather see a great throw and catch than a great defensive stop. So the rules are there to protect the QBs and create more points. That’s why you see teams trading all their chips for a shot at a QB. But that’s why you also see QBs being rushed and failing. I really think that if rookies like RG3 could sit and be groomed, they would have a much better career.

 

[Froob]

I wouldn't say so. In football yes, but a superstar like LeBron in basketball has a bigger impact than any player of the major sports (couldn't say for soccer) in North America.

 

[sean10mm]

Before he was beaten to death, look at what Luck did for the Colts. From 2-14 to 11-5, 11-5, 11-5 with some pretty weak rosters and crap coaching aside from 1 season of Arians in 2012.

2016 they're 8-8 with him starting 15 games (8-7 with him, 0-1 without him), which isn't great, but without him they're 3-12, which is a big drop.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It’s a very important position, but a singles tennis player is also essential to singles tennis results. I don’t think Roger Federer is a 20X champion if he isn’t playing. He would have still won a lot of tournaments with a lone racket laying on the baseline, but not that many. A golfer is also a critical position in sports because that person will provide the motion for the clubs.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I wouldn't say so. In football yes, but a superstar like LeBron in basketball has a bigger impact than any player of the major sports (couldn't say for soccer) in North America.

But you can dominate Basketball as a guard, forward or center.

You can dominate a game from any position likewise, in hockey and baseball.

But QB? In '86, Marc Wilson started over a healthy and active Jim Plunkett in the divisional game in LA. Did I feel very good about our chances? Oh yeah.

Three weeks later, Tony Eason started over a healthy and active Steve Grogan in the Superdome. I felt this pang of nausea right up until kickoff.

In '88, Raymond Berry sat down Doug Flutie with two games left in the season and told him he was being replaced by Tony Eason. I knew our season was over.

In '93, the Niners insisted on starting MVP Steve Young over a healthy and active Joe Montana in the NFCCG against the ****y Cowboys. I knew that game was over before it began.

In '01, Bill Belichick kept young Tom Brady in there for the Patriots, over the recovered and active Drew Bledsoe. I knew we had a shot. And instead of fizzling out into oblivion like in the eighties, we've won five Super Bowls and counting, which feels much nicer than knowing that Drew Bledsoe's, like Tony Eason's, ego is protected.

 

[Ring 6]

Do you believe that QB is the most important role in sports?
The past couple years have highlighted to me that a QB can make a coach look brilliant. Or horrendous.

1. Jimmy G to SF, obviously
2. Deshaun Watson in Houston. Once he went down Texans look terrible again.
3. Denver, after the Forehead retired. Now they suck.
4. Others?

I mean seriously, if you do not have an elite QB, you have about 10% chance of competing for the SB, correct?

I am sure BB could win with another QB but it would take him some time to find and keep one. In the meantime, we have the GOAT. This morning I tip my cap to TB12.

---> FRITZ

Not to be a dlck because your overall point is correct but your examples aren’t really proof.

1) the niners won 4 in a row after a lot of losses coinciding with the QB change but the chiefs just won 3 in a row after losing 4 straight and 6 of 7. The Chargers were 0-4 won 3 straight list 2 in a row then won 4 straight all with the same QB. Philly has won 12/13 despite a an change 2 weeks ago. And so on.
2) Watson was 3-3 and part of the reason they are losing now is defensive injuries making them dead last in points allowed
3) Manning was a liability in his last season.

While QB is critical being on a hot streak isn’t really how it’s proven.
I would tend to look at
% years making the playoffs
Record in the playoffs
Championships (it might be instructive to include conf championships because that adds a level of success)
And look at the rankings of all QBs in those categories. I think there would be an easy consensus that it resembled a ranking of the best QBs.

 

[Ring 6]

But you can dominate Basketball as a guard, forward or center.

You can dominate a game from any position likewise, in hockey and baseball.

But QB? In '86, Marc Wilson started over a healthy and active Jim Plunkett in the divisional game in LA. Did I feel very good about our chances? Oh yeah.

Three weeks later, Tony Eason started over a healthy and active Steve Grogan in the Superdome. I felt this pang of nausea right up until kickoff.

In '88, Raymond Berry sat down Doug Flutie with two games left in the season and told him he was being replaced by Tony Eason. I knew our season was over.

In '93, the Niners insisted on starting MVP Steve Young over a healthy and active Joe Montana in the NFCCG against the ****y Cowboys. I knew that game was over before it began.

In '01, Bill Belichick kept young Tom Brady in there for the Patriots, over the recovered and active Drew Bledsoe. I knew we had a shot. And instead of fizzling out into oblivion like in the eighties, we've won five Super Bowls and counting, which feels much nicer than knowing that Drew Bledsoe's, like Tony Eason's, ego is protected.

You are the king of hindsight.

Did you forget that Eason started 3 playoff wins to get to the SB and that brogan played the majority of that game and was awful too?

You wanted the niners to bench the mvp and play a guy who say all year?

Are you forgetting flutie was terrible in 1998?
In 9 starts he put up 155 points completed 10 or less passes in 7 of them and 7 or less in 5 of the 9.
After that benching he went on to win 2 nfl games in the next 10 years.

 

[Ring 6]

It’s a very important position, but a singles tennis player is also essential to singles tennis results. I don’t think Roger Federer is a 20X champion if he isn’t playing. He would have still won a lot of tournaments with a lone racket laying on the baseline, but not that many. A golfer is also a critical position in sports because that person will provide the motion for the clubs.

But is the racket more important than the player? The player can’t play with out the racket. The racket has a chance to randomly get hit and win a point.

 

[Doctor DDS]

I think the QB position is the equivalent of an entire unit and is probably ranked number 1 if you truly have an elite one. I'd probably rank it in order: QB, defense, offense, special teams. The Pats have flourished every year with Brady despite middle of the pack talent at times (2013 as an example) A great QB keeps a weak defense off the field, can elevate the performance of run of the mill WR group (2006), changes field position and can will the team to win games that they have no business being in.

As mentioned above elite payers in basketball can have a similar impact but there is no specific position required.

 

[Ring 6]

I think the QB position is the equivalent of an entire unit and is probably ranked number 1 if you truly have an elite one. I'd probably rank it in order: QB, defense, offense, special teams. The Pats have flourished every year with Brady despite middle of the pack talent at times (2013 as an example) A great QB keeps a weak defense off the field, can elevate the performance of run of the mill WR group (2006), changes field position and can will the team to win games that they have no business being in.

As mentioned above elite payers in basketball can have a similar impact but there is no specific position required.

I think it’s different based on who the qb is. Ben Roethlisberger imo is successful more because of the 52 players around him, his weapons and defense specifically than because of himself. Give him average weapons and an average d and his results are close to what they have been.

Brady on the other has even more impact than you cite. If you look back over the years the fact that Brady can elevate any group of receivers is clearly the reason B.B. spends less assets on the receiver position than any top offense. It would be very interesting to see the total cap charge at the wr positron during Brady’s career for the pats vs the other proloific offenses in the league. Saving that money let’s it be spend making the parts of the team Brady can’t carry himself better.
You could arguably add OL to that due to Brady getting rid of the ball so quickly and arguably rb as well since when you have the goat the need at rb can be less too and we’ve seen a long line of inexpensive ones.

 

[Wheelman]

Most important position in sports? No it's not. Most important position in football. Sure, we have Polian and the clots to blame for that.

There are whole lot of sports where a single person has a greater amount of importance than the QB position in Football.

 

[SammyBlueCat]

Tom Brady does not posses cat like quickness in his feet.
He does have it in his mind.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

You are the king of hindsight.

"Hindsight" has nothing to do with the facts I cited.

Did you forget that Eason started 3 playoff wins to get to the SB and that brogan played the majority of that game and was awful too?

After losing again in Miami, the '85 Patriots beat the Bengals, Jets, Raiders and Dolphins by virtue of a tremendous advantage in turnovers, a strong running game and Eason not screwing up. By every measure, Grogan was the superior quarterback and gave the team its best chance to win. By the time he was put into SBXX, the contest was already way out of hand. You are free to describe his subsequent performance as "awful", but I cannot think of any other player who would have done better under those circumstances.

You wanted the niners to bench the mvp and play a guy who say all year?

Absolutely, positively yes without reservation. Young was good. And he would have been available off the bench if needed, as he had often been previously. But he never had anywhere near the experience or accomplishments of Montana. I would start a healthy and active Tom Brady who'd sat out most of the season over an MVP Jimmy G or whoever in a championship game every time.

Are you forgetting flutie was terrible in 1998?
In 9 starts he put up 155 points completed 10 or less passes in 7 of them and 7 or less in 5 of the 9.

Flutie in '88, like Grogan in '85, was personally responsible for most of the victories, and for turning the entire season around, and leading the team in every way a quarterback can. The Patriots' coaches obviously struggled in utilizing him most effectively, and, like Brady in '01 for example, he still had only a handful of games played in the NFL, but he still came through when it mattered, beating the Bengals and the Bears and losing a poorly officiated game at the HoosierDome, all after the team started a hapless 1-3.

he went on to win 2 nfl games in the next 10 years.

Because he was busy winning multiple championships in the CFL.

 

[Ring 6]

"Hindsight" has nothing to do with the facts I cited.

It has everything to do with it. You picked losses and with no basis said it was because of a an decision which often was a no brained.

After losing again in Miami, the '85 Patriots beat the Bengals, Jets, Raiders and Dolphins by virtue of a tremendous advantage in turnovers, a strong running game and Eason not screwing up. By every measure, Grogan was the superior quarterback and gave the team its best chance to win. By the time he was put into SBXX, the contest was already way out of hand. You are free to describe his subsequent performance as "awful", but I cannot think of any other player who would have done better under those circumstances.

So you expect a team that wins 3 road games to get to the Sb should change QBs?
Eason threw 3 TDs on the afccg
Groan came in in the second quarter of the Sb and threw 2 picks.

Absolutely, positively yes without reservation. Young was good. And he would have been available off the bench if needed, as he had often been previously. But he never had anywhere near the experience or accomplishments of Montana. I would start a healthy and active Tom Brady who'd sat out most of the season over an MVP Jimmy G or whoever in a championship game every time.

There is no chance yiunbench am mvp for a guy who hadn’t played all season. Your logic says Bledsoe should have played ahead of Brady.

Flutie in '88, like Grogan in '85, was personally responsible for most of the victories,

100% wrong.

and for turning the entire season around, and leading the team in every way a quarterback can.

He was a terrible passer.

The Patriots' coaches obviously struggled in utilizing him most effectively, and, like Brady in '01 for example, he still had only a handful of games played in the NFL, but he still came through when it mattered, beating the Bengals and the Bears and losing a poorly officiated game at the HoosierDome, all after the team started a hapless 1-3.

Because he was busy winning multiple championships in the CFL.

Because no one would give him an nfl job.