The ASJ Fumble

[InRodWeRust]

It all boils down what you think "control of the football" is.


I don't think this is "control of the football". Watch the ball right when he hits the ground.

 

[Bartmac36]

It all boils down what you think "control of the football" is.


I don't think this is "control of the football". Watch the ball right when he hits the ground.

And i have a funny feeling that if this were rob gronkowski, you'd suddenly have a different opinion on what control of the football is

 

[40yrpatsfan]

When all is said and done, that has to be either a TD or Jets possession on the 1, especially with the initial call of TD. Having the result be a turnover is the most absurd thing imaginable. No turnover occurred. The ref in that case should have realized that and just ruled "no conclusive evidence to overturn".

The NFL has the worst set of possession/catch/sideline/TD rules possible. No consistency or common sense to them.

 

[yukon cornelius]

When all is said and done, that has to be either a TD or Jets possession on the 1, especially with the initial call of TD. Having the result be a turnover is the most absurd thing imaginable. No turnover occurred. The ref in that case should have realized that and just ruled "no conclusive evidence to overturn".

The NFL has the worst set of possession/catch/sideline/TD rules possible. No consistency or common sense to them.

except a turnover did occur

the runner a) by rule lost possession of the ball into the endzone, and b) by rule no possession was re-established

by rule this is a turnover to the defense and a touchback

this really isn't hard to understand.....you can say you don't like the rules, and that's fine, but by rule this was a turnover, and you cannot award a TD when the ball was not possessed when the plane was broken, nor can you award possession on the 1 when no possession was regained as the ball carried through the endzone and oob

 

[slam]

I'd say the rule is consistently applied but consistently disliked by fans. It's basically the Dez Bryant and Calvin Johnson catch/overturns that many people hated too, isn't it? Because the ball moved slightly or was released they didn't survive the ground even though it "looks" like a catch.

The question is, can a better rule be written? And no, "let the referee use his best judgment" is not an option.

 

[Ring 6]

When all is said and done, that has to be either a TD or Jets possession on the 1, especially with the initial call of TD. Having the result be a turnover is the most absurd thing imaginable. No turnover occurred. The ref in that case should have realized that and just ruled "no conclusive evidence to overturn".

The NFL has the worst set of possession/catch/sideline/TD rules possible. No consistency or common sense to them.

So the ref should have ignored the rules?
I thought it was his job to apply and enforce the rules.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Haven't had time to read the whole thread but ....

Just going through Twitter and a few sites, there seems to be some growing sense that it was in fact a fumble. That seems pretty clear to me.

There's also a consensus that the rule needs to change ... the whole possession thing has been talked to death, but I think perhaps the rule to review is what happens when the player fumbles through the end zone. Perhaps the touchback rule seeks some consistency with kicks and punts downed in or out of the end zone. But these situations are different, more like fumbling out of bounds. Maybe it should be that the offense retains possession at the 20. Strikes me as reasonable.

 

[Bartmac36]

Butler did it earlier too on a long pass attempt where he fought the receiver all the way to the ground, eventually knocking it loose when they were both on their backs. Should that count as a catch because it feels unfair that the receiver almost made a catch?

Are you seriously trying to compare a pass defense to this play..? If you think those two plays are even remotely similar then you may need to seek some counseling

 

[luuked]

And i have a funny feeling that if this were rob gronkowski, you'd suddenly have a different opinion on what control of the football is

The opinion would be that Gronk needs to take better care of the football not that the rules are broken.

 

[Ring 6]

Are you seriously trying to compare a pass defense to this play..? If you think those two plays are even remotely similar then you may need to seek some counseling

Actually they are the same rule.
The rule for regaining possession is the exact same rule as the rule for what is a catch.
So perhaps you need to seek counseling for misinformed bursts of anger.

 

[Bartmac36]

The opinion would be that Gronk needs to take better care of the football not that the rules are broken.

Now you're just lying to yourself. This website would have crashed in to a firery pit as pitchforks and torches descended upon New York from Patriots nation if this was gronk

If you think otherwise then you truly havent been paying attention to this message board or patriots fans for the past 17 years

 

[Ring 6]

I'd say the rule is consistently applied but consistently disliked by fans. It's basically the Dez Bryant and Calvin Johnson catch/overturns that many people hated too, isn't it? Because the ball moved slightly or was released they didn't survive the ground even though it "looks" like a catch.

The question is, can a better rule be written? And no, "let the referee use his best judgment" is not an option.

That's is exactly the rule that was used. The rule book states the rule for regaining possession IS the catch or no catch rule.

 

[Bartmac36]

Actually they are the same rule.
The rule for regaining possession is the exact same rule as the rule for what is a catch.
So perhaps you need to seek counseling for misinformed bursts of anger.

no no, dont try and change the subject back to the rules. You just tried comparing a standard incomplete pass to a play where a player caught and ran with the ball, and then fumbled at the very end of the play while crossing the goal line..

Its not bursts of anger, just calling you on your stupid comparison that made no sense

 

[luuked]

Now you're just lying to yourself. This website would have crashed in to a firery pit as pitchforks and torches descended upon New York from Patriots nation if this was gronk

If you think otherwise then you truly havent been paying attention to this message board or patriots fans for the past 17 years

I dont know what kind of crap the clown posse that frequents this forum would have posted. I can only tell you my point of view.

 

[Bartmac36]

I dont know what kind of crap the clown posse that frequents this forum would have posted. I can only tell you my point of view.

We can agree on the clown posse statement

 

[Ring 6]

no no, dont try and change the subject back to the rules. You just tried comparing a standard incomplete pass to a play where a player caught and ran with the ball, and then fumbled at the very end of the play while crossing the goal line..

And why do you think I did that?
Because the rule for regaining possession IS the rule for what is a catch. The rule book literally refers to that rule applying here.

So these 3 examples are all the same rule, and the same aspect of that rule, surviving the ground, being applied.
They are perfect examples.

Its not bursts of anger, just calling you on your stupid comparison that made no sense

If you understood the rule you wouldn't say that.

 

[bormio]

As someone pointed out, a variation of this occurred before against the Pats. On the 4th and 2 against the Colts, Faulk caught a pass, was pushed back, bobbled the ball slightly, regained possession - but was not given full forward progress due to the bobble and did not get the first. Upset Pats fans for a long time - but a variation of the same theme.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It all boils down what you think "control of the football" is.


I don't think this is "control of the football". Watch the ball right when he hits the ground.

Thank you for this post.

I've sent this to my Jets buddy who while a highly educated, mentally stable, cultured fellow is still pissing and moaning on how the Pats are getting make up calls from a remorseful league office.

 

[bormio]

Thank you for this post.

I've sent this to my Jets buddy who while a highly educated, mentally stable, cultured fellow is still pissing and moaning on how the Pats are getting make up calls from a remorseful league office.

Underneath the veneer, all Jets fans have issues.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I'd kind of like to see some WR like the next Randy Moss who breaks away from defenders for long TDs have fun with the fumble rule. Make it his shtick to toss the ball to himself, hand to hand, while jogging in for the score. Set some kind of NFL record for recovering his own fumbles.

Regards,
Chris