3-3-5 Nickel Base

[Ring 6]

Arguably we have played this in the past if you consider nink to be a LB.
I think if Hightower as much more of a LB and nink much more of a DE but I think we are going to see Hightower play a lot in ninks spot.

There are so many possibilities.
And we will definitely rotate players and roles by down and distance and opponent.

One possibility.

BASE
Flowers. SDE
Branch. On the nose
Brown. WDT
Hightower. WOLB/DE

Harris. Ilb
Mcclellin/van noy. SOLB

As a variation we can bring Wise or Guy or Ealy in to hightowers spot and move Hightower to SOLB. This oils be more of a 42 run defending group.

Guy can also sub for branch brown or flowers

In passing situations (3rd down and 2 minutes)

We would have a depth chart that includes.

EDGE
HT
(Flowers)
Ealy
(Wise)
Mcclellin
Van Noy

DT
(Flowers)
Guy
Brown
(Wise)
Valentine

With flowers and wise playing some of both roles.

 

[BillyD123]

Sounds right on the $. Just need to stay healthy. And the DB's gel.

 

[PP2]

Arguably we have played this in the past if you consider nink to be a LB.
I think if Hightower as much more of a LB and nink much more of a DE but I think we are going to see Hightower play a lot in ninks spot.

There are so many possibilities.
And we will definitely rotate players and roles by down and distance and opponent.

One possibility.

BASE
Flowers. SDE
Branch. On the nose
Brown. WDT
Hightower. WOLB/DE

Harris. Ilb
Mcclellin/van noy. SOLB

As a variation we can bring Wise or Guy or Ealy in to hightowers spot and move Hightower to SOLB. This oils be more of a 42 run defending group.

Guy can also sub for branch brown or flowers

In passing situations (3rd down and 2 minutes)

We would have a depth chart that includes.

EDGE
HT
(Flowers)
Ealy
(Wise)
Mcclellin
Van Noy

DT
(Flowers)
Guy
Brown
(Wise)
Valentine

With flowers and wise playing some of both roles.

Did you notice Langhi was playing Ninko's position all of last game?

 

[conway]

This is the presumption I've been making when I try to figure out the 2 deep depth chart on defense and the 53. "Starting" nickel could be Rowe or Harmon (heavy nickel). It makes our shortage at DE seem much less urgent when viewed this way and makes me wonder if we shouldn't be carrying one more safety than most people project. I don't feel comfortable with King and Ebner essentially backing up 3 "starters" in a heavy nickel. In a regular nickel or a 4-3, Harmon's a backup and that makes depth look better, but I still think we need to keep an additional safety.

DE Flowers/Wise or Ealy
DT Branch/Valentine
DT Brown/Guy
DE/OLB Hightower/Langi?
LB Harris/Roberts
LB Van Not/McClellin
S McCourty/Ebner?
S Chung/King
NB Harmon/Rowe
CB Gilmore/JJones
CB Butler/CJones?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Did you notice Langhi was playing Ninko's position all of last game?

...and while he had a few rookie moments, overall he held up pretty well.

Strong chance of making the team IMO.

 

[Ring 6]

Did you notice Langhi was playing Ninko's position all of last game?

Yes. That will be hightowers role.

 

[Galeb]

With bigs up front, I could see a lot of those formations with Chung playing a LB.

 

[BobDigital]

I would agree with the 4-2-5 base more than 3-3-5. They have more talent and depth in the DL than LB so I don't think they put a sub-par LB on the field over a decent DL in most situations.

To me the starters/key guys are

DE - Flowers
NT - Branch
DT - Brown/Valentine
DT/DE - Guy/Wise/Ealy(if he stays)
LB/DE - Hightower
LB - Harris
LB/SS - Chung
CB - Gilmore
CB - Butler
FS - McCourty
Extra DB - Harmon/Rowe

To me the guys who will not leave the field most are the guys who have a slot all to themselves. They are Flowers, Branch, Hightower. Harris, Chung. Gilmore, Butler, McCourty. To me those 8 should almost never leave unless they need a breath or it is a specialty package. The other 3 spots are in flux.

I do think they want to generally go bigger on the other DE spot more than not this year as that is the personnel they have and play it more as a run prevent front than a pass rushing front and switch between Wise and Guy depending on the down and distance.

Though Brown is the starting DT on the team Valentine I think almost splits snaps this year to keep them fresh but I do think they Pats want a 2nd true DT out there at nearly all times.

Hightower could be asked to play some DE this season but I think they would rather keep him at LB most downs unless they feel this is a down they REALLY need to get after it and can put extra DBs on the field and not worry about the run..

Harris should be a staple of the D. Kind of redundant with Hightower out there if both play LB but they are just so much better than McClellin or Van Noy.

Chung/McCourty/Butler plays the most snaps last year and I doubt that changes. Gilmore is up there too taking Ryan's snaps and those 4 get the most. Chung will rotate between 3rd LB for coverage or SS but will be out there nearly all the time.

The 5th DB should be out there most of the time too but it will depend on if they want a 3 safety or 3 CB look. Sometimes you put both out there but only for 3rd and 10+ or up late in the 4th. Generally those 14-15 guys handle the snaps unless injuries happen. I would love to see Langi come in and take snaps from Shea or Kyle

 

[jimnance]

I think you'll see both(335,425). We saw both last year. We also saw a lot of 6dbs.
I agree the quality depth is better on the DL than at lb, but the problem with that is you need guys who can cover,even with 6 dbs. Obviously none of our dl have covered much. I believe BB was trying to get ealy to do some- something he's never done before,hence the early struggles. None of the other dl can cover,except possibly ealy.High can cover. I don't think they'll be a lot of situations where the Pats have 4 dl other than early down and obvious run. I'm counting ealy as an olb when he drops in coverage.

 

[PP2]

Yes. That will be hightowers role.

I think Langhi is going to play it. We will see.

 

[SacPete1]

I didn't see last night's game but I'm curious what the front 7 or 6 formations were like in the first qtr and who played what position.
I thought I read that Guy and Flowers were the DE's in the base.

 

[goheels22002]

Arguably we have played this in the past if you consider nink to be a LB.
I think if Hightower as much more of a LB and nink much more of a DE but I think we are going to see Hightower play a lot in ninks spot.

There are so many possibilities.
And we will definitely rotate players and roles by down and distance and opponent.

One possibility.

BASE
Flowers. SDE
Branch. On the nose
Brown. WDT
Hightower. WOLB/DE

Harris. Ilb
Mcclellin/van noy. SOLB

As a variation we can bring Wise or Guy or Ealy in to hightowers spot and move Hightower to SOLB. This oils be more of a 42 run defending group.

Guy can also sub for branch brown or flowers

In passing situations (3rd down and 2 minutes)

We would have a depth chart that includes.

EDGE
HT
(Flowers)
Ealy
(Wise)
Mcclellin
Van Noy

DT
(Flowers)
Guy
Brown
(Wise)
Valentine

With flowers and wise playing some of both roles.

The 3-3-5 base is unnecessary in the division. Tyrod Taylor will require a typical 4-3 to contain him and force him to throw. Jets Hackenberg or McCown behind that very offensive line will call for a jailbreak blitz on every down. For Jay Cutler, my guess is that Matt Patricia will install the rarely used Barcalounger formation where the defenders just sit around and wait for a dying quail to drop into their laps.

 

[Ring 6]

I think Langhi is going to play it. We will see.

Language might me the tram but I do not see much playing time much less a #1 role.

 

[Ring 6]

The 3-3-5 base is unnecessary in the division. Tyrod Taylor will require a typical 4-3 to contain him and force him to throw. Jets Hackenberg or McCown behind that very offensive line will call for a jailbreak blitz on every down. For Jay Cutler, my guess is that Matt Patricia will install the rarely used Barcalounger formation where the defenders just sit around and wait for a dying quail to drop into their laps.

Recently BB has stayed in nickel against running teams. My personal belief is that he knows he needs to stop the run for nickel so he tests his defense by staying in it against running teams too.

 

[mgteich]

Recently BB has stayed in nickel against running teams. My personal belief is that he knows he needs to stop the run for nickel so he tests his defense by staying in it against running teams too.

Isn't this somewhat an illusion? Isn't Chung the run nickel, and a solid run defender?

 

[jimnance]

The 3-3-5 base is unnecessary in the division. Tyrod Taylor will require a typical 4-3 to contain him and force him to throw. Jets Hackenberg or McCown behind that very offensive line will call for a jailbreak blitz on every down. For Jay Cutler, my guess is that Matt Patricia will install the rarely used Barcalounger formation where the defenders just sit around and wait for a dying quail to drop into their laps.

2016 Patriots were in sub70% of snaps. That means a 34 or 43 combined only 30% of snaps. Nickel and dime IS the Pats base, as it is with every other NFL team as well.

 

[Brady6]

Arguably we have played this in the past if you consider nink to be a LB.
I think if Hightower as much more of a LB and nink much more of a DE but I think we are going to see Hightower play a lot in ninks spot.

There are so many possibilities.
And we will definitely rotate players and roles by down and distance and opponent.

One possibility.

BASE
Flowers. SDE
Branch. On the nose
Brown. WDT
Hightower. WOLB/DE

Harris. Ilb
Mcclellin/van noy. SOLB

As a variation we can bring Wise or Guy or Ealy in to hightowers spot and move Hightower to SOLB. This oils be more of a 42 run defending group.

Guy can also sub for branch brown or flowers

In passing situations (3rd down and 2 minutes)

We would have a depth chart that includes.

EDGE
HT
(Flowers)
Ealy
(Wise)
Mcclellin
Van Noy

DT
(Flowers)
Guy
Brown
(Wise)
Valentine

With flowers and wise playing some of both roles.

I agree that seems to be our base defense. I think we will see a lot of 3-2-6 as well with only one true off the line LB on the field along with an additional safety.

 

[Ring 6]

Isn't this somewhat an illusion? Isn't Chung the run nickel, and a solid run defender?

Having a safety who is a good run defending safety isn't not playing nickel.
They put Harmon or a corner on the field and remove a LB or DL.

That's what nickel means.

I'm not sure what you mean that playing nickel as a base is an illusion.

 

[TomPatriot]

I don't think anyone schemes 3-3-5, 4-3, 3-4, 5-2, 8-1 anymore. I don't think it matters they way it did 10-15 years ago.

 

[mgteich]

Having a safety who is a good run defending safety isn't not playing nickel.
They put Harmon or a corner on the field and remove a LB or DL.

That's what nickel means.

I'm not sure what you mean that playing nickel as a base is an illusion.

I guess that we are only dealing with semantics. When most discuss a nickel, they don't mean having a defensive back lining up close enough to be a LB. By nickel, we used to mean 5 in DB's in coverage.

I agree that we use 7 DB's and LB's (not counting Chung) about 30% of the time, and that we overstate our need for front seven players.

In any case, I think that our trend is go with 14 front 7 players (most of our projected rosters). I believe that we used to carry 15.