Schefter: WAS should trade Cousins now

[DaBruinz]

Serious question: why would the Pats be willing to give up Garoppolo at mid-season if they haven't been so far?

You should go back and re-read what I said. I didn't say the Pats would trade Garoppolo at mid-season. I said that Washington would come looking for him..

 

[DaBruinz]

Why is the team that is famous for overpaying free agents so hesitant to pay for their own QB?

They aren't hesitant to pay for their own QB. Where the hell does that assumption come from? They offered him a 5 year extension at $100M with $53M guaranteed. That's worth more than Cousins is despite the franchise tag number.

 

[varjao]

Im still waiting for a Carlos Cousins trade to shake things up in this last stretch of the off season.

 

[Ring 6]

They aren't hesitant to pay for their own QB. Where the hell does that assumption come from? They offered him a 5 year extension at $100M with $53M guaranteed. That's worth more than Cousins is despite the franchise tag number.

The argument being made, for what it's worth, is that for a player in his position the first 2 years of tag is the MINIMUM starting point for guaranteed money.
Some insiders are arguing that because the offer was less than 58 million guaranteed it was an insult and not a legitimate offer.

Whether that's true or not is really only known by people who negotiate tagged player contracts.

 

[TommyD4207]

I'm projecting into the future, not looking at past success.

Hey, any QB on the entire list could be 'playoff caliber' if their team makes the playoffs.

Goff had a terrible situation last year, and I'm still confident with him based upon what I saw at Cal.

I'm not entirely sure you were watching the right guy, if you saw Jared Goff play at Cal and you thought 'Wow, he's got top-5 in the NFL potential'. I thought 'Wow, this is a mid-round pick at best, who will be best suited carrying a clipboard, and will probably be taken in the first round' as is the custom these days.

 

[TommyD4207]

In what I saw of him, I just didn't see it. He looked slow on both his pre-snap reads and his reads as the routes broke down. He also looked like he started down his primary read all too often and almost panicked when that primary was covered. Now, that could also be because he was a rookie. But I didn't see much to even project Goff into the third tier as of right now. That could change, of course. God knows I've been wrong before.



Fair enough. I didn't see nearly what you saw in Goff but, again, he was a rookie in a piss poor situation. That said, I don't think he displayed the kind of traits that you look for in a starter at this level. Good college career or not, he needs to speed up the progression process and learn not to panic. Until he does that, I (personally) wouldn't feel comfortable putting him where you're putting him. But, like I said, I've been wrong before and it is your list.

Everything Goff does is slow and late.

Pre-snap reads, reacting to blitzers, throwing to spots, recognizing disguises, getting off receivers when covered.

Slow, and Late.

He was also slow and late in college, but because he's playing against college defenses (In the Pac-12), he can get away with slow and late, due to the sheer lack of ability on the other team.

 

[miloofcroton]

Everything Goff does is slow and late.

Pre-snap reads, reacting to blitzers, throwing to spots, recognizing disguises, getting off receivers when covered.

Slow, and Late.

He was also slow and late in college, but because he's playing against college defenses (In the Pac-12), he can get away with slow and late, due to the sheer lack of ability on the other team.

It's one thing if he was slow as a rookie, but to say he was slow in college... That's a bold claim for the 1st overall pick at the time. If you're picking and choosing your evidence, I'm sure you could say all QBs, even NFL greats, are slow from time to time.

If you had some deeper analysis though, I'd pay attention.

 

[meatface]

I'm projecting into the future, not looking at past success.

Hey, any QB on the entire list could be 'playoff caliber' if their team makes the playoffs.

Goff had a terrible situation last year, and I'm still confident with him based upon what I saw at Cal.

Are you really telling me you would take Goff over all those guys? Goff hasn't shown anything in the NFL, what makes you think hes going to turn it around?

 

[miloofcroton]

Are you really telling me you would take Goff over all those guys? Goff hasn't shown anything in the NFL, what makes you think hes going to turn it around?

>Are you really telling me you would take Goff over all those guys?

Define "all"...

>Goff hasn't shown anything in the NFL,

Goff showed flashes in his rookie year. Good QB talent show flashes even when their overall play is crap. Two counter examples: Alex Smith and Blake Bortles. They never flashed potential, despite being high picks, during their entire careers.

>what makes you think hes going to turn it around?

He has all the attributes you want. Also, talking about what *will* happen instead of just what *could* happen, I think McVay will really help him succeed. Not sure if it happens this year or next, but he should establish himself as a solid starter before too long.

 

[Alternator]

Serious question: why would the Pats be willing to give up Garoppolo at mid-season if they haven't been so far?

Since nobody bothered to actually answer this, it's the possibility of increased confidence in Brissett. The suspected reason that Belichick held on to Jimmy (insofar as anybody can really tell what he's thinking) is that he wasn't confident that Jacoby could step in and start if Brady went down. The team is sufficiently stacked that an average starter keeps them a reasonable Super Bowl contender, and all evidence suggests that Jimmy is at least that (and probably more, even right now).

If Brissett shows huge progress during training camp and early-season practices, and Bill feels more comfortable with him as a potential starter, then he might listen to other teams if they offer way too much for Jimmy.

 

[varjao]

>Are you really telling me you would take Goff over all those guys?

Define "all"...

>Goff hasn't shown anything in the NFL,

Goff showed flashes in his rookie year. Good QB talent show flashes even when their overall play is crap. Two counter examples: Alex Smith and Blake Bortles. They never flashed potential, despite being high picks, during their entire careers.

>what makes you think hes going to turn it around?

He has all the attributes you want. Also, talking about what *will* happen instead of just what *could* happen, I think McVay will really help him succeed. Not sure if it happens this year or next, but he should establish himself as a solid starter before too long.

Kansas City Chiefs ALex Smith is the definition of mediocrity, but he's had a good couple years in San Francisco under Harbaugh and just didn't make to a Superbowl due to a muffed punt.

That game against the Saints was one of the best games ever and he was a big part of that.

No offense but as of now you're the only guy in the world with hopes for Goff other than his relatives, there are already some noise already about Sean Mannion starting. I hope I'm wrong because the NFL as a product needs better QB play but I think we might be witnessing one of the biggest busts ever in Goff.

 

[Nehalem]

Kansas City Chiefs ALex Smith is the definition of mediocrity, but he's had a good couple years in San Francisco under Harbaugh and just didn't make to a Superbowl due to a muffed punt.

That game against the Saints was one of the best games ever and he was a big part of that.

No offense but as of now you're the only guy in the world with hopes for Goff other than his relatives, there are already some noise already about Sean Mannion starting. I hope I'm wrong because the NFL as a product needs better QB play but I think we might be witnessing one of the biggest busts ever in Goff.

Even Jeff Fisher seemed to recognize that Goff sucked. If its obvious to even to Fisher it seems pretty undeniable.

 

[Simpelton]

This is very fair. Nonetheless, Cousins has put up some impressive numbers and one does wonder what he would do with better talent around him. So yeah, a complete evaluation cannot be made. But that doesn't mean that there isn't room for any evaluation.

Cousins is a poor man's Brady, good game manager, good eye on the field, makes the team around him better. Obvs talking about style rather than level f talent, he is not the GOAT but we see Cousins like everyone else saw Brady until about 2007. He has a lot of potential if he can fix his game just a bit and hook up with the right org, or if the washskins get their crap together.

 

[miloofcroton]

Kansas City Chiefs ALex Smith is the definition of mediocrity, but he's had a good couple years in San Francisco under Harbaugh and just didn't make to a Superbowl due to a muffed punt.

That game against the Saints was one of the best games ever and he was a big part of that.

No offense but as of now you're the only guy in the world with hopes for Goff other than his relatives, there are already some noise already about Sean Mannion starting. I hope I'm wrong because the NFL as a product needs better QB play but I think we might be witnessing one of the biggest busts ever in Goff.

The history of first starts for quarterbacks drafted No. 1 overall | FOX Sports

First overall picks are going to the worst team in the league, and they're often thrust into the starting position as apposed to being given time to sit and learn.

I think you're offering a bit of a knee-jerk take on Goff.

On Alex Smith: I am from California, and I have seen A TON of the 49ers. I'm a 49er fan as well, in a sense. I don't get too emotional the way some do with teams, so I use that term lightly...

Anyway, Smith is an extremely interesting case study because he has attributes that strongly correlate to other attributes (in theory), but those other attributes aren't actually there. In other words, he's very smart, has great character, works his ass off, has excellent athleticism, has good hand-eye coordination. Yet, he doesn't see the field extremely well, and he's basically too passive; by not challenging the defense, the defense gets to be more aggressive with him, and he always has to play QB defensively.

 

[miloofcroton]

Cousins is a poor man's Brady, good game manager, good eye on the field, makes the team around him better. Obvs talking about style rather than level f talent, he is not the GOAT but we see Cousins like everyone else saw Brady until about 2007. He has a lot of potential if he can fix his game just a bit and hook up with the right org, or if the washskins get their crap together.

I get your point, but Cousins is not on the Brady track because he's not a good downfield threat. No matter how people viewed Brady prior to '07, he still had a good arm and was a viable downfield threat, even if the Pats didn't rely on it.

There are better comparisons for Cousins. Rich Gannon maybe? Although Gannon has that lightning release of course. Cousins is just too weak to be a dominant passer, imo. We'll probably see him exposed a bit more this year, although he will have Pryor, who on talent is a top 5 receiver in the league.

Cousins' deep ball is an arced duck that only badass receivers come down with.

 

[chasa]

>Are you really telling me you would take Goff over all those guys?

Define "all"...

Wentz, Wilson. Dak, Carr, For starters.

 

[Simpelton]

I get your point, but Cousins is not on the Brady track because he's not a good downfield threat. No matter how people viewed Brady prior to '07, he still had a good arm and was a viable downfield threat, even if the Pats didn't rely on it.

There are better comparisons for Cousins. Rich Gannon maybe? Although Gannon has that lightning release of course. Cousins is just too weak to be a dominant passer, imo. We'll probably see him exposed a bit more this year, although he will have Pryor, who on talent is a top 5 receiver in the league.

Cousins' deep ball is an arced duck that only badass receivers come down with.

You are overselling the arm problem a bit. Cousins has above average arm strength even if it is nowhere near elite

 

[miloofcroton]

Wentz, Wilson. Dak, Carr, For starters.

No... Wentz and Dak are in the same tier as Goff, so there's no reason to choose Goff over them. I'm not saying I would or wouldn't. That's a closer call that I would have to think about.

Wilson and Carr? Wilson is an easy decision. Carr less so. However, let's go back and look at my priors... I want to win 10 Super Bowls in 10 years, and for that I need a QB who can throw for 5,000 yards in a season, is always a threat to score 28 points in a half, kind of like we witnessed in the Super Bowl this year, and is at the top of his game in the playoffs. I know Wilson can't lead this type of offense. And for all of his great traits, I don't think those requirements can be met by Carr either. On the other hand, Goff has the potential to get there, so I'm going to take him, despite being a less-sure thing.

You are overselling the arm problem a bit. Cousins has above average arm strength even if it is nowhere near elite

Respectfully disagree. I would implore you to go back and review his tape in case you've forgotten.

 

[chasa]

I want to win 10 Super Bowls in 10 years, and for that I need a QB who can throw for 5,000 yards in a season, is always a threat to score 28 points in a half,

Hey man, just got done reviewing his tape as a pro.

for a 16 game season he projects out to:

16 games, Zero wins, 55% completed passes, 2490 yards, and 11tds to 16 ints.

Good luck with those 10 superbowls in 10 years.

Not a single team in the league, seeing what they saw of Goff would choose Goff over any of the starters in the league right now under 29.

 

[miloofcroton]

Since nobody bothered to actually answer this, it's the possibility of increased confidence in Brissett. The suspected reason that Belichick held on to Jimmy (insofar as anybody can really tell what he's thinking) is that he wasn't confident that Jacoby could step in and start if Brady went down. The team is sufficiently stacked that an average starter keeps them a reasonable Super Bowl contender, and all evidence suggests that Jimmy is at least that (and probably more, even right now).

If Brissett shows huge progress during training camp and early-season practices, and Bill feels more comfortable with him as a potential starter, then he might listen to other teams if they offer way too much for Jimmy.

The only answer that makes sense is to trade Brissett, unless you're suggesting Brissett could be better than Jimmy G. You want to keep the better QB talent no matter what you can get in return in a trade.

(that's assuming you wanted or had to trade one of the two)