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Butler thinking about a new agent?

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Sherman and his length v Butler and 3 cone are equal.
Haven't checked Sherman's 3cones but it's not as good as butler's. Or Gilmore's. Or Rowe's.i know that w/o even looking it up. Length is usually a liability vs. shorter quicker wrs,just as it's an asset vs. taller wrs. I believe a Butler/Gilmore/Rowe combo> Sherman/Gilmore/Rowe. IMO.
 
Haven't checked Sherman's 3cones but it's not as good as butler's. Or Gilmore's. Or Rowe's.i know that w/o even looking it up. Length is usually a liability vs. shorter quicker wrs,just as it's an asset vs. taller wrs. I believe a Butler/Gilmore/Rowe combo> Sherman/Gilmore/Rowe. IMO.

Your analysis is respected but Sherman is elite regardless.
 
Your analysis is respected but Sherman is elite regardless.

Oh absolutely. He's still one of the best cbs in the game. All I'm saying is butler's skill set meshes better with Gilmore and Rowe than shermans. Let's say instead the Pats had Gilmore and Ryan,not Rowe. Then Sherman meshes better with them than Butler. It's no disrespect to Sherman. I've always been a fan of his. It's about who fits better with the Pats current personnel. Besides which the pricetag seems too steep.
 
Sherman's got the skills, not one doubt about that. However, can Sherman keep his yap shut outside the 60 minute game clock? The Patriots have a time tested method: Shut up and do your job, when you lose say nothing, when you win say less (or is win say nothing, lose....).

I know more than a few posters want more showmen on the Patriots. I get the allure, it's entertaining and adds a little juice to the big play or the anticipation/build up to the big game. But the unprecedented success of the Patriots has been under a relatively strict adherence to the old school BB way of yapping only off camera, in game, during the play. Otherwise you praise the opponent even if it is Cleveland, speak only of the next opponent, speak of the difficulty of winning each week and how much work must be put in to win.
The BB way has been very good to us fans. It's counter intuitive to change such a well tested method (if Sherman came to the Patriots, bought into that BB way, stopped most of the yapping? BB is officially a football god).
 
Sherman's got the skills, not one doubt about that. However, can Sherman keep his yap shut outside the 60 minute game clock? The Patriots have a time tested method: Shut up and do your job, when you lose say nothing, when you win say less (or is win say nothing, lose....).

I know more than a few posters want more showmen on the Patriots. I get the allure, it's entertaining and adds a little juice to the big play or the anticipation/build up to the big game. But the unprecedented success of the Patriots has been under a relatively strict adherence to the old school BB way of yapping only off camera, in game, during the play. Otherwise you praise the opponent even if it is Cleveland, speak only of the next opponent, speak of the difficulty of winning each week and how much work must be put in to win.
The BB way has been very good to us fans. It's counter intuitive to change such a well tested method (if Sherman came to the Patriots, bought into that BB way, stopped most of the yapping? BB is officially a football god).

I am surprised this hasn't been discussed more. There are guys in the NFL who have attitude issues when playing for crappy teams, and then there are guys with attitude issues wherever they go. Sherman has played for a very successful team in Seattle, and it bothers me that this guy is still yapping all the time. I felt that his very public takedown of the Seahawks passing play at the one-yard line was incredibly disrespectful and reflects poorly on the organization. Is there a need to rub salt in the wounds of your teammates and coaches and make sure the public knows how stupid you think they are? Are they supposed to run the ball on every play at the one yard line from now until the end of eternity, in order to atone for a fluke interception that resulted from a reasonable call and a superhuman defensive play? The Seahawks defense has failed them at least as badly, if not more, than their offense in recent postseason failures.

Clearly I would never doubt BB, but he also isn't infallible. The 2009 team was, to our knowledge, the most disappointing group to date, a team whose attitude issues were more powerful than their talent, and several of the documented players came from their big free agency splash from 2007. We have seen guys come through here, and often times they buy into the philosophy, but even guys like Moss, Thomas, and Dillon were back to complaining in a very public way by the time they hit year three, and that is just the first we heard about it. Sure, Belichick runs a tight ship, but anyone can be seduced by talent and overlook the potential for a mutiny, and the Patriots have already brought in a few players this offseason that appear to be more risky than their normal slate of hard workers who always put the team first.

Glad to say (if you were in the other thread, you'd understand), I definitely agree with @jimnance on his take. Butler would definitely appear to be a better fit, not only from an attitude perspective but also because he complements Gilmore better. I can't deny Sherman's talent, but it makes sense that the Patriots were much more interested in him before they signed Gilmore. If the market for Ryan was $10M annually, then it would be a great value to get Sherman at $11M, as he is a much, much better player. However, I also see some redundancy in a Gilmore-Sherman duo and wonder how many teams feature two traditional big, fast traditional receivers, rather than a TY Hilton or Antonio Brown type who Butler would do better against.

And on top of everything, I'm not saying the Patriots should actually consider this, and we all love winning, but let's be honest: wouldn't you feel uncomfortable rooting for Sherman if he were to come here while Butler is run out of town? I think Sherman is probably not as big a villain as we once thought he was, but there is no question this guy has a tremendous ego and a need for the spotlight. He is one of our biggest adversaries dating back to his violation of trash talk secrecy, trying to build a name for himself by crucifying Brady on social media. The whole thing reeked of self-promotion and a lack of discipline, not to mention a slap in the face to our favorite player. I don't think it would be as bad as Terrell Suggs coming here, but Sherman is on the short list of most uncomfortable players to root for. I am sure that winning another Super Bowl would cure this, and we would all be rationalizing why we like him now, but personally I was glad to hear the Patriots no longer appear interested. And if they are willing to pay big for a second CB (which I don't think they will), I would hope Butler is their first preference.
 
Oh absolutely. He's still one of the best cbs in the game. All I'm saying is butler's skill set meshes better with Gilmore and Rowe than shermans. Let's say instead the Pats had Gilmore and Ryan,not Rowe. Then Sherman meshes better with them than Butler. It's no disrespect to Sherman. I've always been a fan of his. It's about who fits better with the Pats current personnel. Besides which the pricetag seems too steep.

Here is how I look at it.

If Malcolm and NE can work out a 4 year deal for something around $10m AAV then you keep him over getting Sherm.

If you can't sign Malcolm, then Sherm is an upgrade for 2 years and most likely the same $ over 2 years.

As far as fit, I think Malcolm is a superior tackler and maybe more sticky with the Antonio Brown types but overall I'd rather have Sherm on the outside than Malcolm.
 
Here is how I look at it.

If Malcolm and NE can work out a 4 year deal for something around $10m AAV then you keep him over getting Sherm.

If you can't sign Malcolm, then Sherm is an upgrade for 2 years and most likely the same $ over 2 years.

As far as fit, I think Malcolm is a superior tackler and maybe more sticky with the Antonio Brown types but overall I'd rather have Sherm on the outside than Malcolm.

Except it's not Butler vs. Sherman but cheaper Butler vs. Sherman + high picks.

Rather have 4 years of Butler and everything he brings in terms of hard work and staying out of the spotlight than 2 years of the Sherman theatre. Especially because the overall dropoff given the rest of our secondary is not particularly big between the two.

I dont get why people still get hung up on Sherman. He was obviously an alternative to Gilmore at some point before FA but the Pats decided to go a different direction.
 
Here is how I look at it.

If Malcolm and NE can work out a 4 year deal for something around $10m AAV then you keep him over getting Sherm.

If you can't sign Malcolm, then Sherm is an upgrade for 2 years and most likely the same $ over 2 years.

As far as fit, I think Malcolm is a superior tackler and maybe more sticky with the Antonio Brown types but overall I'd rather have Sherm on the outside than Malcolm.

We already have Gilmore and Rowe on the outside. We need sticky.

Once again, it's the mix not the collection.
 
Except it's not Butler vs. Sherman but cheaper Butler vs. Sherman + high picks.

Rather have 4 years of Butler and everything he brings in terms of hard work and staying out of the spotlight than 2 years of the Sherman theatre. Especially because the overall dropoff given the rest of our secondary is not particularly big between the two.

I dont get why people still get hung up on Sherman. He was obviously an alternative to Gilmore at some point before FA but the Pats decided to go a different direction.

"Cheaper" is TBD.

We don't know what SEA means by "high picks". If they want 1st rounder then they can go fly a kite. If its a 2nd or a mix of 3rd and 4th rounders then that might be more reasonable.

2/$22m for an elite CB is a good deal.

The Sherman theater is a factor but clearly he is not happy at SEA.

We also have no idea how far apart the team and Malcolm are. If the rumors are true he wants $12-$13m AAV and $25m guaranteed then he is not cheaper than Sherman. He is more expensive.

People are hung up on Sherman because he represents an elite CB replacement if Malcolm and the team cannot come to terms. He is also an upgrade over Malcolm.
 
Agreed about Sherman but BB famous quote about 'we're not collecting talent, but a team with a proper mix' would apply here.

.
Yes. Its important if he can fit here.
 
We already have Gilmore and Rowe on the outside. We need sticky.

Once again, it's the mix not the collection.

Who cares about Rowe if Sherman is available.

Sherman is sticky.
 
We know who he should call.
 
He posted a picture of him in game action on Instagram and no text.

I think he's staying.

Well I think it just means for right now he is intends to play for the Pats this year. He's come to the realization that with 12 days left a team isn't giving up a 1st and he will obviously sign the tender because he will want the $3.9m because the Pats could lower it to $600k after a certain date.

No clue what Belichick might do after he signs it.

For all we know we could see a 3 way trade between NE, NO and SEA

Butler to NO
Sherman to NE
Draft picks to SEA.
 
Sherman's got the skills, not one doubt about that. However, can Sherman keep his yap shut outside the 60 minute game clock? The Patriots have a time tested method: Shut up and do your job, when you lose say nothing, when you win say less (or is win say nothing, lose....).

I know more than a few posters want more showmen on the Patriots. I get the allure, it's entertaining and adds a little juice to the big play or the anticipation/build up to the big game. But the unprecedented success of the Patriots has been under a relatively strict adherence to the old school BB way of yapping only off camera, in game, during the play. Otherwise you praise the opponent even if it is Cleveland, speak only of the next opponent, speak of the difficulty of winning each week and how much work must be put in to win.
The BB way has been very good to us fans. It's counter intuitive to change such a well tested method (if Sherman came to the Patriots, bought into that BB way, stopped most of the yapping? BB is officially a football god).

I wouldn't worry too much about Sherman's mouth if he ends up here. I think there's a huge difference between a pom pom Pete system and a BB "I'll chew anybody's ass" method. I've never been a fan of the "player's coach" type guys especially as a HC. I would argue that BB is a true players coach because he tries to maximize their abilities which in turn maximizes their careers.
 
This Sherman obsession feels very Jetlike to me: whoring after some bauble of an acquisition, tossing money at it. Let's not go there.

Sherman is older, more expensive, in decline, and a flaming a------e. Forget the flash: keep the young, developing football player who has proven that he can be a major contributor on this team.
 
This Sherman obsession feels very Jetlike to me: whoring after some bauble of an acquisition, tossing money at it. Let's not go there.

Sherman is older, more expensive, in decline, and a flaming a------e. Forget the flash: keep the young, developing football player who has proven that he can be a major contributor on this team.

Heard this from people when Pats let Talib walk and got Revis.

Sherman isn't in decline and would be an Amendola restructure/cut away from not affecting this year's cap.

Butler+Amendola right now $11.6m cap hit
Sherman $11.4m
 
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Heard this from people when Pats let Talib walk and got Revis.

You heard it in spades when the Jets got him back. Any rejoinder to Sherman's being older, in decline, more expensive, a flaming a------e, and unproven in our system? I didn't see any in your post. Try to see past your mancrush to the facts.
 
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