Pats considering Butler trade to Saints for Brandin Cooks

[varjao]

What is concerning is how desperate the Saints are to get rid of this guy

 

[shmessy]

Pats might be floating this out there to get Butler to sign on their terms.

That would be a mistake because Malcolm is from the next state over.

If they want to send a message, they should be doing it with Green Bay or Buffalo.

.

 

[sambam94]

What? What NFL have you been watching? Maybe in the real world you play out your contracts, not in the NFL, the contracts are just paper that can be torn up in an instant.

for those with no integrity maybe

 

[strngplyr]

What is concerning is how desperate the Saints are to get rid of this guy

Could he just be unhappy with his pay vs production and sides can't seem to agree? Sounds like Malcom Butler.

 

[Ross12]

Not going to be happy if our top chef trades a great butler for a cook.

Mr. Carson would be most displeased.

 

[unoriginal]

The reason this deal is happening publicly is because the Patriots are putting pressure on Butler to re-up. They want him back, they've made their final offer, and its up to Butler whether he wants that or not. The Patriots are telling him he must make his decsion today, they aren't going to go with a holdout or a 1-year rental, if they can get a longer term asset in exchange. (Cooks)

Malcolm (or a CB1) is more valuable to NE than a WR.

No; in this offense, if you shut down the slot receiver, you shut down the offense. If Welker/Edelman/Amendola/Cooks whoever is in there cannot reliably pick up first downs, the Pats punt away the playoff game.

The slot receiver position Cooks plays is essential.

CB2 is not essential. This team has won SBs with Tyrone Poole, Brandon Browner, and Eric Rowe receiving safety shading.

IMO. In the open market a CB1 is more valuable than a WR2.

That's why I say in this deal, the Saints should give up more than NE

Yes, but Butler is in the "last year" of rookie contract control, Cooks has two years left. While a proven CB1 is worth way more on the open market than a slot receiver, if Butler shuts down extention talks, this is a typical "one year early" Patriots trade scenario.

Here's why I still think the trade is likely

1. Is the upgrade from Rowe to Gilmore really worth 14m?

Yes. Rowe has substantial liabilities in coverage. He is outside only and is a big-receiver matchup specialist, otherwise he needs safety attention.

***

Bringing Cooks in is a risk that extending Butler and signing Gilmore are not. FA WRs are a crapshoot picking up this offense. Butler has proven he can play at an elite level in this defense, Gilmore has proven he can play at a high level in man coverage, which is what this defense wants to base in.

That said Cooks for two years vs. Butler for one/Butler for half a season on holdout is still a risk worth taking, because Edelman might fall off the cliff at any time, and Amendola can't fill that position long term.

 

[shmessy]

The reason this deal is happening publicly is because the Patriots are putting pressure on Butler to re-up. They want him back, they've made their final offer, and its up to Butler whether he wants that or not. The Patriots are telling him he must make his decsion today, they aren't going to go with a holdout or a 1-year rental, if they can get a longer term asset in exchange. (Cooks)

Well then, they are using the WRONG F'ing team.

Butler is from Mississippi - - - going to the New Orleans Saints would be a dream come true for him. Hell, he worked at a POPEYES fer cryin' out loud.

.

 

[sambam94]

so how does Butler's contract work out if he is traded?

 

[Huckleberry1]

What is concerning is how desperate the Saints are to get rid of this guy

I think they realize they won't re-sign him, just as the Patriots realized they won't re-sign Butler. They also need high quality defensive help desperately and Butler provides that and they still have their #11 in the draft.

 

[unoriginal]

Well then, they are using the WRONG F'ing team.

Butler is from Mississippi - - - going to the New Orleans Saints would be a dream come true for him. Hell, he worked at a POPEYES fer cryin' out loud.

.

Well not every team has nearly yearly intramural scrimmages with the Patrs where NE coaches can get an eyeful of their young talent.

And only one team in the NFL has Bradin Cooks on the trade block.

Who else should the Patriots be talking to if they are looking to unload Butler for a crucial piece?

 

[luuked]

so how does Butler's contract work out if he is traded?

Saints have to deal with the RFA tender and we get whatever that amount was (3.5m ?) back in terms of cap space. That's how it works out.

 

[AtomicDawg]

 

[PatsFan2]

What is concerning is how desperate the Saints are to get rid of this guy

They don't seem so desperate a desperate Team jumps at the first opportunity they have already turned down a reasonable offer from the Titans.

 

[BobDigital]

Fun fact I just heard on 98.5. Pats can't trade Butler unless he signs his tender and as of now he has not as far as we know.

 

[Kontradiction]

The reason this deal is happening publicly is because the Patriots are putting pressure on Butler to re-up. They want him back, they've made their final offer, and its up to Butler whether he wants that or not. The Patriots are telling him he must make his decsion today, they aren't going to go with a holdout or a 1-year rental, if they can get a longer term asset in exchange. (Cooks)


No; in this offense, if you shut down the slot receiver, you shut down the offense. If Welker/Edelman/Amendola/Cooks whoever is in there cannot reliably pick up first downs, the Pats punt away the playoff game.

The slot receiver position Cooks plays is essential.

CB2 is not essential. This team has won SBs with Tyrone Poole, Brandon Browner, and Eric Rowe receiving safety shading.



Yes, but Butler is in the "last year" of rookie contract control, Cooks has two years left. While a proven CB1 is worth way more on the open market than a slot receiver, if Butler shuts down extention talks, this is a typical "one year early" Patriots trade scenario.



Yes. Rowe has substantial liabilities in coverage. He is outside only and is a big-receiver matchup specialist, otherwise he needs safety attention.

***

Bringing Cooks in is a risk that extending Butler and signing Gilmore are not. FA WRs are a crapshoot picking up this offense. Butler has proven he can play at an elite level in this defense, Gilmore has proven he can play at a high level in man coverage, which is what this defense wants to base in.

That said Cooks for two years vs. Butler for one/Butler for half a season on holdout is still a risk worth taking, because Edelman might fall off the cliff at any time, and Amendola can't fill that position long term.

Welcome back, sir.

 

[TB12TheGoat]

Fun fact I just heard on 98.5. Pats can't trade Butler unless he signs his tender and as of now he has not as far as we know.

does he have to sign before 4?

 

[BobDigital]

Beat me too it!

 

[RobertWeathers]

The reason this deal is happening publicly is because the Patriots are putting pressure on Butler to re-up. They want him back, they've made their final offer, and its up to Butler whether he wants that or not. The Patriots are telling him he must make his decsion today, they aren't going to go with a holdout or a 1-year rental, if they can get a longer term asset in exchange. (Cooks)


No; in this offense, if you shut down the slot receiver, you shut down the offense. If Welker/Edelman/Amendola/Cooks whoever is in there cannot reliably pick up first downs, the Pats punt away the playoff game.

The slot receiver position Cooks plays is essential.

CB2 is not essential. This team has won SBs with Tyrone Poole, Brandon Browner, and Eric Rowe receiving safety shading.

Yes, but Butler is in the "last year" of rookie contract control, Cooks has two years left. While a proven CB1 is worth way more on the open market than a slot receiver, if Butler shuts down extention talks, this is a typical "one year early" Patriots trade scenario.

In the past it was true that shutting down the slot killed this offense. That is no longer true. The team has adjusted its approach and have multiple players in JE11, MM, DA, Hogan, Gronk, etc who are all reliable, consistent targets for TB12 in and out of the slot.

I've stated in earlier posts that Cooks would be a nice addition but it would come a year early than is actually needed. With that said, that is BB's philosophy and that is fine.

Not sure why you are bringing up solid CB2s when Malcolm is a CB1. Historically speaking, the team does better defensively with a shut-down CB1 as opposed to having 2 CB2s

In the end its a matter of what you believe is more valuable to NE at this time. a CB1 or a slot receiver where you already have a plethora of reliable targets TB12 can throw to

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

does he have to sign before 4?

nope.

Clubs need to make tender offers to RFAs by 4PM today

The player has until April 22 to sign it.

NFL Free Agency Period 2017


Thus MB has some leverage here

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

does he have to sign before 4?

That's what i wanna know.