Report: The Falcons gave their players a ton of painkillers

[PatriotsReign]

OK, you are the only one who knows anything and of course you are the only person who can comment on someone who is having a problem with painkillers, and since you decree it they are all losers, no matter who they are or what they have gone through.
feel better now?

I wasn't even referring to the Falcons.

If you read my initial post, I was referring to anyone that thinks it's ok to use them recreationally.

Do you know anyone that's had a problem or got sober?

Why are you making false statements claiming I've said I'm the only one? I specifically stated I am not the reigning expert. But I understand the illness and recovery more than you do. I've lived on both sides.

What's bothering you AJ?

 

[PatriotsReign]

Not to mention this leads to major issues later in life..aka drug abuse...addiction..and then when players are addicted and have no access...heroin is in the mix...why heroin in MA is unreal right now..all of the pills have been locked down and hard to get..but has created a huge demand for heroin

It's very difficult to get Adderal as well and that's fantastic. People abuse that stuff as if it's ok.

People have had ADD for centuries and it doesn't need to be treated with legal speed.

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[IllegalContact]

 

[neuronet]

4 Tylenol and 4 Advil at the same time works way better IMO.

Having had a serious bike accident with two broken arms (both radius bones), four broken ribs, and broken bone in hand, I can say...nope. Oxy is the ****. Pain floated away, and made me not give a flying F about any of the problems with the accident.

Can totally understand how someone could get addicted. Two weeks after the accident, I didn't need it any more, but I definitely felt a little twinge inside..."This is goodbye, dissociated happy feeling of floating in clouds and not giving a **** about any of life's problems...." I gave it up easily, but I can imagine if I had needed it for a few more weeks....it would have been tough.

 

[Ring 6]

I wasn't even referring to the Falcons.

If you read my initial post, I was referring to anyone that thinks it's ok to use them recreationally.

Do you know anyone that's had a problem or got sober?

Why are you making false statements claiming I've said I'm the only one? I specifically stated I am not the reigning expert. But I understand the illness and recovery more than you do. I've lived on both sides.

What's bothering you AJ?

People have problems. People have **** in their life that causes them to do stupid or self destructive things and they don't even know why.
Many are good people.
Just because you think your problems made you a loser from loserville doesn't mean you can throw a blanket over everyone who has a problem pretend you have a clue what they are going through as individuals and call them losers.
People don't all fit into your little boxes that you think they belong in. Your arrogance that you know it all and sentence them to loserville is quite pathetic

When I became an adult I learned that's it is ignorant to expect people to act like me, respond the same way to adversity as me and that a whole lot of people have a whole lot of crap to deal with that I can't possibly understand. I learned not having those problems doesn't make me better than them. Some day perhaps you will.

 

[neuronet]

I am that person AJ. At least prior to '89

And one of the main drivers that got me into recovery was that I knew down to the center of my being, I was in loserville.

And by the Grace of God, I found the willingness to walk out. You don't need to be PC about us addicts or recovering addicts. That stuff doesn't fly in the halls of recovery

If you know anyone "in the program", they'll tell you there no soft love. It's all about brutal honesty and tough love.

We tell newcomers if you want what we have, do what we do. And if you don't, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out

I wish society was more like that

They also tell you that you have a disease, that it isn't your fault that you have a disease any more than it would be your fault that if you had cancer. So, there's apparently some mixed messages in the halls of *A.

At any rate, congrats on being clean.

 

[neuronet]

But it's still loserville and anyone that's been there and Back views it that way.

This really isn't true. The consensus view in the fellowships is that it is a disease, and calling someone with a disease a loser would be an ahole move. Hitting rock bottom sucks, and you have to lose a lot, some people lose everything, and you probably think of your life during that time as one of a loser. But I would never look at or treat someone with addiction as a loser. I look at them as someone sick, and in need of treatment.

Isn't there a slogan in those meetings....There but for the grace of God go I? You are only one drink away from trouble. Not because you are a loser, but because your neuronal circuits are configured differently than other people's.

That's how I look at it anyway.

 

[patriot1136]

So, back to the original topic. Is this painkiller thing against league rules or what?

 

[PatriotsReign]

This really isn't true. The consensus view in the fellowships is that it is a disease, and calling someone with a disease a loser would be an ahole move. Hitting rock bottom sucks, and you have to lose a lot, some people lose everything, and you probably think of your life during that time as one of a loser. But I would never look at or treat someone with addiction as a loser. I look at them as someone sick, and in need of treatment.

Isn't there a slogan in those meetings....There but for the grace of God go I? You are only one drink away from trouble. Not because you are a loser, but because your neuronal circuits are configured differently than other people's.

That's how I look at it anyway.

How does one view someone that's a "loser"?

Our actions define us. I was a "liar, a cheat and a thief" when I was using. Sure people are have an illness, but that doesn't excuse us from society's judgement.

I just got off the phone with my 24 year old nephew about one of his best friends who is now a heroin addict. That friend went into my brothers house twice in the past 2 weeks and stole money.

My brothers family and nephew have trusted that young man since he was 5 years old. Now he's not only an addict, but he's a liar and a thief as well.

My nephew had to send him a text saying he's no longer welcome in their house. He also told him if he's using, he doesn't exist as far as he's concerned.

That's what we call tough love and it's the best way to handle it. He will steal from everyone he knows because that's what addicts do. It's also what I did. I'd steal your wallet and then help you look for it. I did what losers do...what sick addicts do and I deserved the judgements people made

He has entered Loserville. It's not sympathyville. In the program, we tell newcomers "If you're looking for sympathy, look in the dictionary and you'll find it between **** and syphilus"

If your perception of the program is a place you'll find sympathy, you're wrong. Sure, once we've found our way, "but for the Grace of God go I" is our mantra. But the biggest reason we continue, is that we never forget how ugly Loserville was. It is hell on earth.

If you got the impression we call people losers, we do not. But the beginning of recovery is full of tough love.

The first question I was asked was "what are you willing to do to get what we have?" And I said "I'll do anything it takes".

They would tell me "we'll pick you tomorrow at 6pm" and if I wasn't ready waiting, they'd leave without me. The only reason we try to help others is because it keeps us sober.

It's not out of generosity and that's why it's called a selfish program. They suggested I volunteer to set up the hall, make coffee and sweep the floor after the meetings.

I didn't understand it, I just did it because I was staying sober. If I started using again, they wouldn't call me and try to convince me to come back either.

There's a ton of love in the program, but no sympathy or caution someone's feelings will get hurt. They tell it like it is with brutal honesty.

That's not an opinion, that's the way we do it because it's worked for almost 100 years

 

[Ring 6]

How does one view someone that's a "loser"?

Our actions define us. I was a "liar, a cheat and a thief" when I was using. Sure people are have an illness, but that doesn't excuse us from society's judgement.

I just got off the phone with my 24 year old nephew about one of his best friends who is now a heroin addict. That friend went into my brothers house twice in the past 2 weeks and stole money.

My brothers family and nephew have trusted that young man since he was 5 years old. Now he's not only an addict, but he's a liar and a thief as well.

My nephew had to send him a text saying he's no longer welcome in their house. He also told him if he's using, he doesn't exist as far as he's concerned.

That's what we call tough love and it's the best way to handle it. He will steal from everyone he knows because that's what addicts do.

He has entered Loserville. It's not sympathyville. In the program, we tell newcomers "If you're looking for sympathy, look in the dictionary and you'll find it between **** and syphilus"

If your perception of the program is a place you'll find sympathy, you're wrong. Sure, once we've found our way, "but for the Grace of God go I" is our mantra. But the biggest reason we continue, is that we never forget how ugly Loserville was. It is hell on earth.

If you got the impression we call people losers, we do not. But the beginning of recovery is full of tough love.

The first question I was asked was "what are you willing to do to get what we have?" And I said "I'll do anything it takes".

They would tell me "we'll pick you tomorrow at 6pm" and if I wasn't ready waiting, they'd leave without me. The only reason we try to help others is because it keeps us sober.

It's not out of generosity and that's why it's called a selfish program. They suggested I volunteer to set up the hall, make coffee and sweep the floor after the meetings.

I didn't understand it, I just did it because I was staying sober. If I started using again, they wouldn't call me and try to convince me to come back either.

There's a ton of love in the program, but no sympathy or caution someone's feelings will get hurt. They tell it like it is with brutal honesty.

That's not an opinion, that's the way we do it because it's worked for almost 100 years

It hasn't worked for everyone or even a large majority.

 

[PatriotsReign]

They also tell you that you have a disease, that it isn't your fault that you have a disease any more than it would be your fault that if you had cancer. So, there's apparently some mixed messages in the halls of *A.

At any rate, congrats on being clean.

I agree with this 100%. The "loser" perspective is the inside perspective of the addict. Not others view of them. But as one who had that loser view of myself, I can say active addicts are in Loserville. I say it at meetings often and no one ever has an issue with it. They actually smile or get teary-eyed because they remember that awful pain

I think you and AJ think I'm being mean or judgemental when I'm just sharing my experience. There was a time I wanted it all to end. Today I wish I had more time

And I'm eternally grateful for all that tough love and brutal honesty. If I could it, anyone can

 

[PatriotsReign]

It hasn't worked for everyone or even a large majority.

You're right. Like I said, there are those incapable of getting sober. And more die than get sober

Some die so that others stay sober. I had a guy die in my car on the way to a detox. But I'm still here and that's all that matters to me. I go so I stay sober, not so others do

So what's your point?

Try commenting on the content of my posts rather than just arguing for sake of arguing

 

[Ring 6]

You're right. Like I said, there are those incapable of getting sober. And more die than get sober

Some die so that others stay sober. I had a guy die in my car on the way to a detox.

So what's your point?

Or there are those that your way doesn't work with.
Stop lumping people into what you think they are.
People make mistakes, and stupid decisions, its what people do, and they do it for many different reasons, due to many different types of adversity, and they are not losers who need to be told what is wrong with them by someone who thinks they are all losers living in loserville who need you to fix them.

Guess what, some of them are losers. Some black people are losers, some white people are. Some wealthy people are losers some poor people are. Some people with addictions are losers, some people without addictions are losers.

I'm done having this conversation. You clearly want to throw a blanket over everyone with a problem that you think you know the solution to, and you are simply wrong.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Having had a serious bike accident with two broken arms (both radius bones), four broken ribs, and broken bone in hand, I can say...nope. Oxy is the ****. Pain floated away, and made me not give a flying F about any of the problems with the accident.

Can totally understand how someone could get addicted. Two weeks after the accident, I didn't need it any more, but I definitely felt a little twinge inside..."This is goodbye, dissociated happy feeling of floating in clouds and not giving a **** about any of life's problems...." I gave it up easily, but I can imagine if I had needed it for a few more weeks....it would have been tough.

Thanks for the candor.
You're fortunate to have had the self awareness and mental discipline to stop, especially when a lot of doctors will just let the good times roll...until it's too late.
Not everyone who becomes addicted and develops a problem is a bum. In fact, we probably all know somebody who is struggling with one addiction or another.

 

[PatriotsReign]

People have problems. People have **** in their life that causes them to do stupid or self destructive things and they don't even know why.
Many are good people.
Just because you think your problems made you a loser from loserville doesn't mean you can throw a blanket over everyone who has a problem pretend you have a clue what they are going through as individuals and call them losers.
People don't all fit into your little boxes that you think they belong in. Your arrogance that you know it all and sentence them to loserville is quite pathetic

When I became an adult I learned that's it is ignorant to expect people to act like me, respond the same way to adversity as me and that a whole lot of people have a whole lot of crap to deal with that I can't possibly understand. I learned not having those problems doesn't make me better than them. Some day perhaps you will.

We tell one another "if you have a reason to pick up, don't use it" because that's all they are, excuses.

We also say "some are sicker than others" but still no reason to use.

Have you ever been to a meeting AJ? Because if you haven't, you're talking out your butt.

The program isn't about feelings or sympathy. And if that bothers you, it's ok.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Or there are those that your way doesn't work with.
Stop lumping people into what you think they are.
People make mistakes, and stupid decisions, its what people do, and they do it for many different reasons, due to many different types of adversity, and they are not losers who need to be told what is wrong with them by someone who thinks they are all losers living in loserville who need you to fix them.

Guess what, some of them are losers. Some black people are losers, some white people are. Some wealthy people are losers some poor people are. Some people with addictions are losers, some people without addictions are losers.

I'm done having this conversation. You clearly want to throw a blanket over everyone with a problem that you think you know the solution to, and you are simply wrong.

You missed the fact I never called anyone a loser. I said we all enter Loserville. If you can't grasp that, that's your issue

 

[neuronet]

How does one view someone that's a "loser"? Our actions define us. I was a "liar, a cheat and a thief" when I was using. Sure people are have an illness, but that doesn't excuse us from society's judgement [...] That's not an opinion, that's the way we do it because it's worked for almost 100 years

Well, not really. You are injecting a lot of opinion in there. The program is the Steps and Traditions. There is no official policy of tough love, nor should there be.

There is much more diversity of opinion and approach, even within one meeting hall, much less across a meeting area (e.g., Seacoast Area in NH), than your post would suggest. On one hand, you have the curmudgeonly oldtimer know-it-all who has nothing left to learn, with 50 years sober, who likes to spout those bloody aphorism bumper stickers and insists on reciting the Lord's Prayer (rather than the Serenity Prayer) at the end of meetings.

You have the atheist type who questions everything, the sensitive type who prefers to talk about feelings and for whom the tough love approach is just about the worst strategy. You have women who have been violently sexually assaulted and are using drugs to medicate the pain, and some oldtimer guy maladroitly telling them to "Keep it simple stupid", crushing what little spirit they have left, is sheer idiocy.

Acting as if there is some one size fits all strategy (e.g., tough love) is misleading, and it would be a ****ty policy for such a diverse sprawling fellowship. So unless you in one of those cult-of-personality meeting situations where one or two people force others to fit into a certain style of relationship with newcomers, then my guess is there is more diversity than you let on.

I know lots of people in the programs, and my considered opinion is that it works for those whom it works for. It doesn't work for the rest.

Just be careful with that anonymity, bro.

 

[50-yard-line]

As an aside, I saw a related statistic that just blew my mind:

789,000,000 painkillers (hydrocodone and oxycodone) were sold in West Virginia (pop. 1.8m) in the last 6 years.

Mind-boggling.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Well, not really. You are injecting a lot of opinion in there. The program is the Steps and Traditions. There is no official policy of tough love, nor should there be.

There is much more diversity of opinion and approach, even within one meeting hall, much less across a meeting area (e.g., Seacoast Area in NH), than your post would suggest. On one hand, you have the curmudgeonly oldtimer know-it-all who has nothing left to learn, with 50 years sober, who likes to spout those bloody aphorism bumper stickers and insists on reciting the Lord's Prayer (rather than the Serenity Prayer) at the end of meetings.

You have the atheist type who questions everything, the sensitive type who prefers to talk about feelings and for whom the tough love approach is just about the worst strategy. You have women who have been violently sexually assaulted and are using drugs to medicate the pain, and some oldtimer guy maladroitly telling them to "Keep it simple stupid", crushing what little spirit they have left, is sheer idiocy.

Acting as if there is some one size fits all strategy (e.g., tough love) is misleading, and it would be a ****ty policy for such a diverse sprawling fellowship. So unless you in one of those cult-of-personality meeting situations where one or two people force others to fit into a certain style of relationship with newcomers, then my guess is there is more diversity than you let on.

I know lots of people in the programs, and my considered opinion is that it works for those whom it works for. It doesn't work for the rest.

Just be careful with that anonymity, bro.

Good for you, some brutal honesty!

Yes, there are many personalities neuro, but one common ailment and addiction is addiction. I've belonged to one group since the beginning and we treat all the same as a group.

Sure, as a sponsor you treat people differently. That's where our individuality comes in.

Regarding anonymity, this board is 100% anonymous....so what is there to be careful about?

The way I'm communicating here is totally different than the way I talk at meetings. I never talk about length of sobriety unless it's someone I sponsor.

And to be honest, I struggle more the past few years than I did the first 15-20. That's because life actually gets more difficult as we age.

I appreciate your candor and I assure you the longer I stay sober, the less I know. I never stated there's a one size fits all, I'm pretty sure I was sharing my personal experience in a thread about some awful drugs.

My group is on the south shore in Mass.

And I'm not an "old timer"! I never liked them!


PS. If you have any specific examples of tough love I discussed that you disagree with, PM me. I'd love to hear your views.

Also, be careful of putting words in my mouth. I never said tough love was an official policy. But it's what I experienced and continue to see to this day.