Now We Can Look For An Extension Or Two

[supafly]

I thought long would try to cash in with the pats and have himself a good year. So far that hasn't happened.

This is a guy who is a little long in the tooth to be setting himself up for big pay days. He's probably nearing retirement in the next year or two, if he didn't contemplate it last year.

I'm not sure what you were expecting, but he's started 7/8 games for us. There were even some claiming that he was having a better year than Jones a few weeks ago. Since then, he's fallen off, although I'm going to assume that may have something to do with the return of Ninkovich and the development of Flowers.

 

[thecore762]

The only guys we should extend are Butler, Hightower. That's it.
The rest can be addressed in the draft, we need a pure pass rusher to replace Jones since he left we don't have a cobstent guy that ends on the backfield. We also need another linebacker.
Other than that in the draft I would like us to consider a big center and maybe another physical interior lineman to help the run game.

 

[patsbrasilpatriotas]

The only guys we should extend are Butler, Hightower. That's it.
The rest can be addressed in the draft, we need a pure pass rusher to replace Jones since he left we don't have a cobstent guy that ends on the backfield. We also need another linebacker.
Other than that in the draft I would like us to consider a big center and maybe another physical interior lineman to help the run game.

Bennett - We only have one TE so he is a must
Sheard, Long- 1 of them at least and draft a pure DE
Branch - We need him
Blount - I would love to give him another year
Vollmer or Cannon - We need one of them

 

[Todd Bradley]

Traylor was only added to the PS.

We still have a roster spot available.

 

[BTTA]

I think Belichick builds the roster in exactly the opposite order that most fans would:

1. "The core" of the defense is the handful of good young players that will improve every year and not cost more as they do because they are under contract (Brown, Flowers, Harmon, Valentine...)

2. That inexpensive, always improving core provides him with financial flexibility to keep a handful of relatively inexpensive but solid veterans to fill the gaps (Chung, Branch, Long...).

3. Then, and only then, are the superstars added to the mix, once the financial capacity is created by steps 1 and 2: (Hightower, Sheard, McCourty...).

Most NFL fans (and Pats fans) have this order reversed in their minds:
1. Get superstars.
2. Fill in the gaps with rookies and low hanging fruit vets.

The more that fantasy football and the superstars mindset infects NFL fans, the more Belichick is going to disappoint Patriots fans.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Long is on the downside of his career, I would prefer to go after a younger more athletic pass rusher for next year. No to resigning long. I think flowers is a future starter 10 sack guy + good at run stopping, we need just one more just like him. flowers isn't ready yet, he's still green. Next year lets go after A young athletic edge guy who can put pressure on the QB and win one on one battles.

Long is on pace for just 2 sacks this year, no forced fumbles, and not sure about QB hurries tackles for loss or hits. But when I watch him play, I hardly see him making game changing plays or winning one on one battles. No thank you to next year.

I want Flowers to start vs SEA. Wilson is gimpy, SEA running game stinks and their o-line sucks.

Besides having an super-accurate Qb like Wilson sitting back there surveying the defense for 20 minutes doesn't sound like very prudent.

See how he does and go from there.

 

[mosslost]

in 1997, after losing the Super Bowl with Green Bay, on the flight home, the story goes that Belichick and had a long talk with Robert Kraft. (Parcells as we all know, did not fly back with the team)

On that flight, I think this is in Holly's book, Belichick explained to Kraft that it was possible to build a team that would be competitive both now and over a potentially permanent long term under the salary cap. It would involve making very hard but ruthless choices sometimes, emphasize depth and quanty as well as quality. (And for him quality was just as much about intelligence and coachability, etc)

The results speak for themselves. Yes, Brady is arguably the main reason it all worked so well. (He is the GOAT, is with with the program, and has taken significant less than he should have, which in many years probably allowed for tremendous depth signings.

So, though I feel suck after this move... and wish I could just be reveling in the win over the Bills, I have to realize that Bill has always done it this way. Collins, if he truly was doing what he wanted to get stats (I doubt it is that extreme though) was not on board. And Collins was going to walk. None of us argue with the fact that Bill won't overpay, we just feel like we should have kept him for this year's run. But BB seems to have think he was not helping the team. WHat if in a big playoff game, he takes risks that are outside the game plan that Bill wants. WHat does he do then? So as always, he gets the benefit of any pathetic doubt I have because I never even played football just been a fan my whole life. All I know is that for 3.5 years everyone has been Calling Collins a freakish beast then this happens without warning. I'm gonna roll with it now.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

How bout the front office start extending people like HT and Butler, core structures of the defense.

This implies that Hightower and Butler are both begging to sign new contracts as soon as possible. What if Hightower is also looking for Von Miller money? What if Butler wants to be the highest paid CB in the league?

I certainly hope we can get some deals done, but the lack of any new contracts doesn't mean the team isn't trying or being cheap.

 

[Tuck]

No matter how god you are, you'll get with the program or your gone. I admire Bill's resolve in that respect.

Guys like Collins must drive him crazy because they spend so much time and energy evaluating the measurables before the draft but how on earth do you predict a guy is going to be virtually worthless because he won't buy into the program?

 

[BTTA]

No matter how god you are, you'll get with the program or your gone. I admire Bill's resolve in that respect.

Guys like Collins must drive him crazy because they spend so much time and energy evaluating the measurables before the draft but how on earth do you predict a guy is going to be virtually worthless because he won't buy into the program?

Agree on your first point. It takes a lot of discipline and courage to stick to your values, particularly in a profession that is so public.

On the second, they actually put a lot of effort into trying to determine who will "buy in" to the program as part of their draft evals. There's a story on that somewhere here, about a psychologist they spoke to who gave them everything he had on that topic and it added very little to what they already had, IIRC.

 

[slash83]

This implies that Hightower and Butler are both begging to sign new contracts as soon as possible. What if Hightower is also looking for Von Miller money? What if Butler wants to be the highest paid CB in the league?

I certainly hope we can get some deals done, but the lack of any new contracts doesn't mean the team isn't trying or being cheap.

I didn't say the team wasn't trying or are being cheap.

 

[Tuck]

Agree on your first point. It takes a lot of discipline and courage to stick to your values, particularly in a profession that is so public.

On the second, they actually put a lot of effort into trying to determine who will "buy in" to the program as part of their draft evals. There's a story on that somewhere here, about a psychologist they spoke to who gave them everything he had on that topic and it added very little to what they already had, IIRC.

Yeah I read that. I guess I'm a little skeptical about how well that kind of stuff works. I'm sure it helps to some extent but at the end of the day, these guys are human and you can't know for sure what they'll do.

 

[mgteich]

It would seem as though we've been claiming that "it's the right time" for some extensions for quite awhile now. Belichick has not agreed with us, although perhaps the bye week changes that a bit?

I like your list and agree with the players, but only at the right price of course. I don't have an issue with extending Cannon, considering the fact that Solder will be entering his last year, Vollmer may never play another down in NE, and Waddle is exactly what many of us thought he was.

I'm full go with both Branch and Long.

I thought the team has extended Freeney and Ninkovich.

And yes, the bye week gives the team available to deal with contract discussions.

 

[mgteich]

This implies that Hightower and Butler are both begging to sign new contracts as soon as possible. What if Hightower is also looking for Von Miller money? What if Butler wants to be the highest paid CB in the league?

I certainly hope we can get some deals done, but the lack of any new contracts doesn't mean the team isn't trying or being cheap.

Fans forget that both parties need to sign a contract.

I certainly expect Hightower to sign an extension. However, I think that there is nothing wrong with his agent wanting to see what the market is, at least in the legal tampering period.

With respect to Butler, he will be an RFA. We will get a first if we CHOOSE not to match the deal that he is offered by someone else. It seems likely that both Butler and the team will wait until the 2017-2018 off-season to make the decision with regard to Butler's future.

 

[PatsFan2]

If Jabaal Sheard knew how to rap up better he would have had at least three more sacks.

 

[Flash]

The dream for me is that 49ers offer their first round pick for Garropolo and a few other picks and then we can pray for Myles Garrett to fall past the Browns.

Realistically, while BB usually doesn't pay big money for free agents or impending free agents from our team, I'd still like to see Hightower locked down. He and McCourty are the two most important players on our defense and with those two locked down regardless of anyone else that joins/leaves the team our defense will always be decent. Long and Sheard are not so good to the point that they are irreplaceable.

With Vollmer's future completely up in the air, I would lock up Cannon. He has been decent and his contract is...okay given his production. The current Cannon will probably never be as bad as he was last year, so not a terrible idea to lock him up.

 

[Jimke]

Don't hold your breath

The most fans can expect is a franchise tag for Hightower and a first round RFA tender for
Butler. I'm not even sure they will commit the franchise amount to a player. They probably
will re-sign a few of the players MG mentions plus possibly Devlin and Harmon. Too much
is made of the $60 million cap money. If the value is not there for Bill Belichick, he will carry
a large portion of this money into 2018.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Maybe freeny will get an extension on his extension

 

[Jimke]

Flowers did have a pair of sacks this past week. Wonder if he begins to pick up the pace here.

I hope they play him more. He could replace Shead.

 

[patfanken]

The trade deadline has passed with us adding only Van Noy and Traylor (both needed since Belichick dumped Collins and Derby). We might upgrade Traylor when possible. However, he is what we need: a blocking TE.
====================
It seems like the time to make a mid-level extension or two for 2017: Branch, Cannon and Long come to mind.

I originally felt that nothing is going to be done on the contract side until after the season. I would have assumed that any "team friendly" offers that have been made in the past have already been rejected and BB is cool with letting them go out and find out what's out there and compete for their services then. $65+MM in cap space is a lot of room to make deals, so we should be able to keep all of our FA's we really want to to keep.

However with the Collins trade and the accompanying ripples in the locker room it caused, your thread got me wondering if working out a deal with a player or 2 during the break might go a long way to calm things down, and make it less about 'not being willing to play Jamie Collins', more about being "see how we pay the players we really want to stay'.

I'd be surprised if its Butler. He probably deserves it the most, but his leverage is so weak. He'll be a RFA next season and the Pats will quickly slap a first round tender on him. I don't think the league views him as a shut down CB, so I really doubt there is a team out there who would pay him over $10MM like that, AND give up their #1. Plus if there were a team that would pay him in the 8-10MM range, the Pats would likely match the deal.

Hightower would make the biggest impact, and they'd likely have to pay a premium now. Hightower's leverage just grew. His agent knows his value to the team has grown as well as how it is viewed by the fan base. We all knew that at least one of the 2 LB's had to be signed, and now there IS only one. He knows the Pats HAVE to sign him. Now would be a great time to make a premium offer, and get him under contract and show the locker room that DEPENDABLE play will be rewarded.

If not High, then Bennett, Sheard, and Cannon should be the targets. Bennett should be tough, because despite all the claims at Patriot love, I think he still wants to see what the Market would bring, and THEN decide if he wants to stay around for another couple of seasons. Sheard and Cannon should be easy signs. Cannon because he's playing so well and wants to lock in that impression. Sheard because despite the fact he's playing well, he not putting up the stats that is going to make some team want to throw a lot of money at him. Better to be paid by the team that knows and appreciates your "dependability". Reasonable raises for both should do the trick.

Any 2 of those possibilities should be enough to deflect or at least mitigate any possible ill will from the Collins trade.