Mike Lombardi on the Jamie Collins trade..

[long distance]

PS
If this would be a trade Collins for Haden I would be at peace for the rest of the season. It would really make me happy actually. This way it still feels a bit uneasy. I do hope for another move on D like Lombardi suggests.

 

[slash83]

PS
If this would be a trade Collins for Haden I would be at peace for the rest of the season. It would really make me happy actually. This way it still feels a bit uneasy. I do hope for another move on D like Lombardi suggests.

What was he suggesting?

 

[n1997y]

The offer may not have been recent - could be that he rejected the offer during the offseason. Could even be that the resulting issues with freelancing and attitude came about afterward as a direct result of this. Once Collins realized he was in his probably last year with the team (barring franchise tag), could be that he stopped buying in.

stopped buying in, or started freelancing to look like a hero, pad his stats and enhance his market value. Enjoy that Cleveland market, Jamie!

 

[luuked]

PS
If this would be a trade Collins for Haden I would be at peace for the rest of the season. It would really make me happy actually. This way it still feels a bit uneasy. I do hope for another move on D like Lombardi suggests.

Haden is too expensive if you look at his contract unless you want him over Butler.

 

[TomPatriot]

What was he suggesting?

He basically said "I'm not going to say they're done." There wasn't a specific trade.

 

[luuked]

Not sure if someone posted this already:

 

[Deus Irae]

Not sure if someone posted this already:

I certainly hope they aren't done, at least in terms of looking.

 

[Gallo]

I'm confused by Lombardi's tweets, aren't you guys in the top 3 in points? I checked, you are 5th, and by watching this team and reading this forum, I also got the feeling that this D could be top 5 come playoff time. I remember you guys being like 17th-18th a couple years ago (in total yard), and Belichick did not do things like this. Though one of your defensive coordinators were let go, I guess. Could be mistaken. Anyway, this feels odd, maybe they got into a heated argument?

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

"I have been all over how badly the Patriots defense has been playing all season."

This goes to show how meaningless a lot of stats, including opponents PPG, when you take away the context. Pats are allowing fewer points, but part of that is because opponents need to go to shootout mode to keep pace with Brady; that plays into the hands of this defense and its very good secondary. Sounds like Bill (and Lombardi) think this defense has been a paper tiger that would get steamrolled against a physical team in the playoffs.

They've been playing poorly, but the results are still very good. It's a good defense that should get better. Oh and 15.25 points per game without Brady vs 17.75 with.

 

[long distance]

So yes .. people in the know .. know. To each his own.

 

[primetime]

I'm confused by Lombardi's tweets, aren't you guys in the top 3 in points? I checked, you are 5th, and by watching this team and reading this forum, I also got the feeling that this D could be top 5 come playoff time. I remember you guys being like 17th-18th a couple years ago (in total yard), and Belichick did not do things like this. Though one of your defensive coordinators were let go, I guess. Could be mistaken. Anyway, this feels odd, maybe they got into a heated argument?

They've played a bunch of horrendous offenses, though. The Bills twice, the Dolphins, the Steelers sans Roethlisberger, the Texans, the Browns, the Bengals, and the Cardinals. Only the Bengals are a moderately decent offensive team. Seahawks will be a test.

 

[RxJock1120]

Ok so none of this makes any sense. If he was traded for not playing well, I could understand that, but all other point counter this argument.

For example:
Trade him now to get at least some compensation because he wanted too much money and Pats wouldn't pay...well why were the Pats even offering that money if he was playing poorly.

Trade him because he was freelancing...why not just bench him. Injuries happen, you may need him later in the year and you won't find a street free agent with his skills and defensive knowledge.

Trade him now to get something instead of nothing when he leaves...we could have just tagged him and traded him in the off-season. Plus he would have gotten us a compensatory pick if he left by himself anyways.

 

[newenglandsports11]

"I have been all over how badly the Patriots defense has been playing all season."

This goes to show how meaningless a lot of stats, including opponents PPG, when you take away the context. Pats are allowing fewer points, but part of that is because opponents need to go to shootout mode to keep pace with Brady; that plays into the hands of this defense and its very good secondary. Sounds like Bill (and Lombardi) think this defense has been a paper tiger that would get steamrolled against a physical team in the playoffs.

In my opinion, this D is very reminiscent of 2007. Probably our best offense since then and that leads to our stats being overinflated. Do we really trust this D with the game on the line?

Our best (and only) reference is week 1 vs Arizona and we watched (what we now know to be) a not great Arizona team and Palmer/Fitzgerald/Johnson walk down the field not once but twice for a go ahead score.

In my mind, I wouldn't feel safe in a 4 point game with 2 minutes left with the opposing team having the ball at their own 25. Could be just me but the paper tigers thing really sticks out. Now what does that have to do with jettisoning one of your best players on a 7-1 team? I have no idea but would love to see some comparisons on defense 1st eight games in 2007 vs now.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I'm confused by Lombardi's tweets, aren't you guys in the top 3 in points? I checked, you are 5th, and by watching this team and reading this forum, I also got the feeling that this D could be top 5 come playoff time. I remember you guys being like 17th-18th a couple years ago (in total yard), and Belichick did not do things like this. Though one of your defensive coordinators were let go, I guess. Could be mistaken. Anyway, this feels odd, maybe they got into a heated argument?

You're a respectful fan of another team, so here's an attempt at a serious reply. I see three basic judgements BB could be making:

1. He wants too much money

2. He's not playing as well as he should

3. He's a disruptive influence on the team​

The three could be connected -- 1 leads to 2 leads to 3. If that's the case, you can see BB's logic, but any one of the three could be enough to ship him out.

Of course, there could also be a 4. BB may not be the unemotional guy people think he is -- he just keeps his emotions bottled up and doesn't do the Harbaugh/Tomlin/Arians rant-and-rave stuff. He lost his temper with Collins and just wants him out a.s.a.p. That sends a message to the team too ...

 

[Joey007]

I'm confused by Lombardi's tweets, aren't you guys in the top 3 in points? I checked, you are 5th, and by watching this team and reading this forum, I also got the feeling that this D could be top 5 come playoff time. I remember you guys being like 17th-18th a couple years ago (in total yard), and Belichick did not do things like this. Though one of your defensive coordinators were let go, I guess. Could be mistaken. Anyway, this feels odd, maybe they got into a heated argument?

We may be third in points, but look at some of the QB's we've faced this year:

Tannehill
Tyrod twice
Brock Osweiler
Charlie Whitehurst
Landry Jones

We have not played world beaters at QB, to say the least.

 

[FourierSeries]

They've played a bunch of horrendous offenses, though. The Bills twice, the Dolphins, the Steelers sans Roethlisberger, the Texans, the Browns, the Bengals, and the Cardinals. Only the Bengals are a moderately decent offensive team. Seahawks will be a test.

True, the defense hasn't had to face any juggernaut offenses. But are there any juggernaut offenses in the AFC that we'd be likely to play in the postseason? Pittsburgh with Big Ben would come the closest, but I can't find it in me to be scared of playing them (a team we've owned for years) at home. Their defense is far more vulnerable than ours, and Brady would shred it again.

Other than that, I don't see any team that will be able to do much damage.

 

[luuked]

I'm confused by Lombardi's tweets, aren't you guys in the top 3 in points? I checked, you are 5th, and by watching this team and reading this forum, I also got the feeling that this D could be top 5 come playoff time. I remember you guys being like 17th-18th a couple years ago (in total yard), and Belichick did not do things like this. Though one of your defensive coordinators were let go, I guess. Could be mistaken. Anyway, this feels odd, maybe they got into a heated argument?

The stats dont really match up with how the defense looks when it is on field. I am not totally concerned about it yet because it has been gradually improving over the last 2-3 weeks and January is still far away but they are definitely not playing as good as the point differential implies.

 

[Fixit]

They've played a bunch of horrendous offenses, though. The Bills twice, the Dolphins, the Steelers sans Roethlisberger, the Texans, the Browns, the Bengals, and the Cardinals. Only the Bengals are a moderately decent offensive team. Seahawks will be a test.

Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and Arizona are all above Cinci in points per game, and Cinci is tied with Miami at 20.9.

Held Buffalo to 16 when Brady was out, held Arizona to 21 when Brady was out, kicked Pittsburgh's ass, and then blew out Buffalo, who scored a wholly cosmetic last-minute TD.

 

[long distance]

Haden is too expensive if you look at his contract unless you want him over Butler.

This year below 7M remaining. Technically possible but very expensive. Then restructure or trade. Not a lot of dead cap after this year. Butlers tender around 4M.

The problem is a lot of teams reportedly interested despite the high contract. BB won't bid for that.
But he would be just what the doctor ordered for Pats young (and outside of Butler) inconsistent CB corp.

 

[Wordsmyth]

Ok so none of this makes any sense. If he was traded for not playing well, I could understand that, but all other point counter this argument.

For example:
Trade him now to get at least some compensation because he wanted too much money and Pats wouldn't pay...well why were the Pats even offering that money if he was playing poorly.

Trade him because he was freelancing...why not just bench him. Injuries happen, you may need him later in the year and you won't find a street free agent with his skills and defensive knowledge.

Trade him now to get something instead of nothing when he leaves...we could have just tagged him and traded him in the off-season. Plus he would have gotten us a compensatory pick if he left by himself anyways.

Tell ya what...if you want to second-guess the GOAT coach, more power to ya. Any time you can fill his shoes, drop in at One Patriots Place and drop your mad skillz on the team.