For the 2016 Pats to be in/win SB 51 the D has to improve ALOT

[Kontradiction]

Again, it's hard to know where they're truly at. When Belichick finally realized that he had to blitz and otherwise try to rush Dalton instead of just having the defensive front play contain, they looked better and forced Dalton into a couple of throws he probably didn't want to make. I hate, hate, HATE the game plan they roll out against mobile quarterbacks but yesterday proved that they will cut the **** if they need to. There was a noticeable difference in the unit from the middle of the third quarter on. Eric Rowe also looked like a good pick-up and provides some size to the back end. My main concern is with the unit's ability to generate a pass rush without blitzing. I guess we will have to wait and see on that one.

 

[Tony2046]

Fair enough but the playoffs are a different animal my friend, it's all well and good stopping Cincy at home in the regular season....

They held a top rushing team to 16 points. They held a top passing team to 17 points.

Their only loss was to the Bills with an injured 3rd string QB.

They are ranked the 4th scoring defense in the league.

You can only play who is on the field.

BTW: With Brady they have a top 5 (if not better) scoring offense.

BTW: #2 They have a top 5 (if not better) Special teams.

It's a complimentary game. Given the salary cap it is tough to put a top 5 unit on both sides of the ball. Looking specifically at the D without measuring it against the O is somewhat meaningless.

This is after week 5 and the Pats ranked 4th in points differential and will be ranked 2nd after this week is complete.



NFL Team PPG Differential, Points For, and Points Against: 2016 NFL Season

FYI:



FYI: Keep your eye on the scoring offense. With Brady back you'll soon see the Pats in the top 5. (Ranked 18th after week 5)

 

[Tony2046]

I'm kind of curious as to where they rank in 3rd down Defense. That's my only contention with the Defense, they can't get off the field on 3rd down and some of them are huge conversions.

After week 5 they ranked 27th.

 

[Kontradiction]

Just like in 2011, using points allowed as the be-all, end-all (and, really, ONLY) measuring stick of the defense is folly.

 

[PittPatriot]

This defense has already proven it can play in the playoffs. It played very well last year, and a lot of the players were on the 2014 SB team and played well throughout that championship run.

The defense did not play "well" in the 2014 Championship run. They played barely well enough and a miraculous play saved them. Didn't they give up 31 to Baltimore at Gillette in the AFCCG (sorry, divisional game)?

 

[Gronk]

The defense did not play "well" in the 2014 Championship run. They played barely well enough and a miraculous play saved them. Didn't they give up 31 to Baltimore at Gillette in the AFCCG?

Well, divisional game, but your point is correct. There was a lot of stuff the defense didn't do well against BAL (and SEA) that's washed away by Brady taking the lead back and the goal-line stand at the end. I think the potential is still there for this unit to be better than it was that season, 6 games in there's still plenty of time to identify problems and opportunities to improve whether though mixing up personnel (Rowe, Roberts flashing) or scheme (i.e. be agressive be be agressive).

So, do I think they have to improve ALOT - no. I think they need to clean some execution stuff up and decide what kind of defense they want to be. They look so much better when they attack, though it does seem like they only get pressure when then send LBs through so I'm not sure they'll ever get the kind of pressure CIN was getting in the first half with just 4 guys. But for those pining for the salad days of Chandler Jones...that was true most of the time he was here too.

 

[PittPatriot]

It's a complimentary game. Given the salary cap it is tough to put a top 5 unit on both sides of the ball. Looking specifically at the D without measuring it against the O is somewhat meaningless.

Your post was excellent and overall I agree. However, regarding your statement about the salary cap, I must disagree. Teams who poor an overwhelming amount of money into their offense do it at quarterback, left tackle, running back, or wide receiver. We have a bargain at quarterback and tight end. Everything else we're doing on the cheap with either rookie contracts, JAG OL, etc.

One can claim that the stars of the defense (Hightower, Butler, Collins) aren't even being paid their worth.
This is a very talented defense but often don't play like it ( mainly because it is very hard to overshadow TB 12's offensive unit).
I'm not saying we have a bad defense. But it is far from a great one and I expect them to improve.

 

[ashley]

As the season progresses, typically our defense always improves. The one very concerning factor for this defense so far is our third down efficiency. We have a hard time getting off the field on third downs.

Hopefully, as the season goes on, we'll improve on third downs.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Patsfan in Philly said 2nd best in a post above. I just checked and we are 3rd best.

Based on points per game, it is..... 2nd best in the league.

 

[RIpats88]

the defense has been very jeckyll and hyde....and part of it may be scheme. The first half the pats played zone for whatever reason and dalton ate it apart.

in the second half they switched to man to man tight defense sending blitzes on dalton and it slowed them down. Why they didnt do that earlier I dont know.

BB has this fear of mobile qb's where he literally plays prefent zone. and it never usually works IMO

 

[pwes]

After week 5 they ranked 27th.

Figured as much, said in the game day thread they had to be bottom 5 in this metric. Only solace I take is they aren't letting the other team score a lot of points... yet, but they really need to improve here.

 

[Tony2046]

Figured as much, said in the game day thread they had to be bottom 5 in this metric. Only solace I take is they aren't letting the other team score a lot of points... yet, but they really need to improve here.

I agree.

But I think there is a different game plan when you have Brady leading an elite offense and knowing you can be more aggressive with the D especially when leading by 10.

So I expect an improvement based on BB having 6 weeks of game film on the next opponent and having an elite offense in his back pocket.

Buffalo will be a good indication of that.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

I agree.

But I think there is a different game plan when you have Brady leading an elite offense and knowing you can be more aggressive with the D especially when leading by 10.

So I expect an improvement based on BB having 6 weeks of game film on the next opponent and having an elite offense in his back pocket.

Buffalo will be a good indication of that.

Get a big lead and you take away a team's running game and force them to be one dimensional. Especially against a team geared for the run ( e.g. Buf) an d it will help the defense,

 

[fightingirish595]

On defense? Probably. So were the Seahawks in 2014. On offense? No chance. Special teams? Doubtful. Minnesota is Carolina all over again. Great D, with question marks elsewhere.

Team game with a salary cap. Everyone forgets that. You want HOF at every position - play Madden or Fantasy.

Lol who said anything about all Hall of Famer at every position. What are you talking about. sounds like a straw man to me

 

[fightingirish595]

These threads always seem to have the underlying theme of lamenting the lack of QB sacks as an indicator of something more significant than BB believes..

If you listen to the likes of Matt Chatham, Bruschi et al.. they all pretty much echo the same thing that BB values "keeping the edge" than sacking the qb..

Chandler gets glitzy stats, however if he is ineffective on the run or setting the edge is that what the Pats expect from a DE/OLB????

We are not doomed, BB does not fit the mold of meeting disgruntled fans expectations, but somehow wins a lot of games...

I already poimted out that stats don't really tell the story on defense, Including sacks. I think the 3rd down defense is a problem right now. Some people think its a problem. Some don't

 

[Ring 6]

I know we're missing IMO one of if not the best linebacker out there in Collins (certainly the most athletically gifted along with Mack) but this defense is giving me all the vibes of defense's past that let Tom and the offense down for years in the playoffs until we beat Seattle in 2015.

Now i'm not saying that doesn't mean other teams don't have their own s**t to sort out too but i don't care much for the others because we can only control what goes on in Foxborough and the way i see it this offense is only heading one way. The defense on the other hand, although EVENTUALLY coming good in games, can't expect this trick to work in crunch time come January and hope #12, #87 and the others to bail them out once more.

Anyone else concerned that we're not getting that high level of performance we got a few years ago? Also how close is this D to the finished article because i believe that is key, because if there is room for improvement then that's a great sign but if what we are is the way we will be then i'm not ready to coronate yet like many people seem to be doing.

Then lets do it this way.

1) Which defenses do you are playing well enough right now and can win a SB without improving.
2) Which of those are so much better than they can win a SB with what would appear to be a lesser offense that what the Pats seem to have now that Brady is back. (Probably best offense in NFL)

 

[BTTA]

...We have a bargain at quarterback and tight end. Everything else we're doing on the cheap with either rookie contracts, JAG OL, etc.

One can claim that the stars of the defense (Hightower, Butler, Collins) aren't even being paid their worth.

Once again someone has demonstrated that the Pats just don't pay salaries like other NFL teams, and because of that don't have superstar stat makers at a handful of positions.

And yet, somehow they spend their required % of the cap, or more, every year, just like very other team. How is this possible?!?!

And yet, somehow in the past 15 years they lead the league (by far) in win-loss %, playoff wins, SB appearances and wins. Somehow they do this while maintaining a fantasy-fan-depriving salary scale.

The humanity!

 

[fightingirish595]

Then lets do it this way.

1) Which defenses do you are playing well enough right now and can win a SB without improving.
2) Which of those are so much better than they can win a SB with what would appear to be a lesser offense that what the Pats seem to have now that Brady is back. (Probably best offense in NFL)

Seattle, Minnessota, Denver

 

[Ring 6]

If a pass rush isn't developed, number 5 is more unlikely than likely

#5 is always more unlikely than likely, there are 32 teams. Expecting to be guaranteed to win the SB is silly.

 

[fightingirish595]

#5 is always more unlikely than likely, there are 32 teams. Expecting to be guaranteed to win the SB is silly.

Here we go, who said anything about a gurantee. Sure when your talking about probability its always more unlikely. But the odds are in our favor. Stop with the straw mans