Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court

[TB_Helmet]

Your post suggests you are unfamiliar with the facts. There were several phones. No texts or emails were provided from the phone that was most relevant (active during the entire 2014 season, including the AFCCG). If you can show me something that controverts that, I would be very interested to see it.

And if the "actual science" would debunk the case, why is it that this science has never been presented?? Certainly the Patriots and/or Brady have the means to fund an experiment that would support their views. I have seen the various reports and presentations that criticize the Exponent methodology, but I have yet to see any "real science" that proves, or even supports, the notion that nothing was done to the balls. For example, I have seen nothing that says, "ok here is the proper way to conduct the experiment, and here we conducted the experiment, and here are the results, and look they show that nothing was done to the Patriots' balls." If you are privy to such "actual science," please provide a link to same. If you are not, then stop suggesting that it exists.

I know this was posted earlier today and has been addressed, but holy hell. Did you seriously say that this science has never been presented? You can go plug in all the numbers into an Ideal Gas Law calculator online and see how PSI drops with temperature. There have been dozens of reports presenting the science including from renowned scientists across the country. A f*#@ing 7th grader won his high school science fair presenting the science that shows Brady is innocent. You can do it yourself with a football and a pressure gauge.

If you're trolling, well done, because I totally bit on it. But if you are serious with that comment then I have no idea how you have 5,000 posts on this forum (which means you're not a Jets fan) and can believe that the science has never been demonstrated.

EDIT: here's a link, since you asked. 13 year old outsmarts the NFL
Seventh grader may have proven Tom Brady innocent

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Especially considering the gauge used had an accuracy of plus or minus .5 PSI

This is why the entire mess is so absurd.
First, as with any measurement subject to multiple variables (in this case, actual temperature, how the actual temperature is recorded, atmospheric conditions, atmospheric temperature, usage, etc), there is a Standard Deviation around the mean expected value for what is recorded. So, a ball that weighed 12.3 psi might have a mean expected psi of 10.6 after 90 minutes in the rain at 40 degrees Fahrenheit (I'm making that up), there will be a distribution of possible readings around that mean, based on tens of thousands of observations. The Standard Deviation within that range is very important, but well above the IQ of the League Office and, apparently, Ted Wells.

Second, the accuracy of gauges used in the original and subsequent readings is also important. So, for the sake argument, if the same gauge were properly used for each measurement (and we have no evidence that it was) and if, as you suggest, the gauge had an accuracy of +/- 0.5 psi, then we are left with the following scenario.

Official tests the ball in a room where the temperature is 73 degrees Fahrenheit..
The test says the psi is 12.3.
Because of the accuracy of the gauge, the psi could actually be anywhere between 11.8 and 12.8 psi.

The ball is outside for 90 minutes in the rain at 42 degrees.
The mean expected psi for the tested ball under those conditions is 10.8 psi, the result of an expected 1.5 psi drop (again, I'm making that up).

Official tests the ball outside under the outdoor weather conditions.
The test says the psi is 10.7.
Because of the calibrated accuracy of the gauge the actual psi could be anywhere between 10.2 and 11.2 psi.

So, psi could actually have dropped anywhere from 2.6 psi (12.8 minus 10.2) to 0.6 psi (11.8 minus 11.2).

If we say that the Standard Deviation is 0.3 psi (I'm making that up) then the ball's psi has changed along a spectrum that puts it at 0.9 psi above the expected outcome (three standard deviations heavier than it should have been) or 1.5 psi below the expected outcome (five standard deviations lighter than it should have been).

On the outside range of the lighter read, you might conclude that someone took air out of the ball; on the outside range of the higher read, you might conclude that someone put air into the ball.

Same ball. Same Gauge. Same Official. Same weather. Same measurement.

That's all way beyond the IQ of the League Office and Ted Wells.

To put it in language they would understand, it's a crock of ****.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

PFS74, I was AT a game this past season with Tunes during which it was announced the league WAS THERE CHECKING THE BALLS.

Season over and they claim.."No way!! We never collected anything!! We were never anywhere!!!", The NFL has been lying since the start about EVERYTHING. Every single thing.

preachin' to the choir, but thanks for the reinforcement.

 

[luuked]

Its May 2016 and at least one person on this forum is defending the science of a company that 'proved' that second hand smoking doesn't contribute to an increased risk or cancer.

But you can't prove that it does or doesn't contribute to an increased risk of cancer. SHOW ME THE SCIENCE. LISTEN TO MY FACTS !!! /s

 

[PatsDeb]

We were told by legal experts that the fact that Berman ridiculed the NFL meant nothing and that Chin insisting Brady was guilty also meant nothing. I have no legal experience and no offense, but at this point, I'm going to listen to my own common sense rather than legal experts since it's been more accurate. I'm taking this as a good sign.

LOL, but I am a legal expert (or at least a lawyer). I've been granted lots of extensions, only to lose the war shortly thereafter. . PS - I also live in Nashua.

 

[Ivan]

Your post suggests you are unfamiliar with the facts. There were several phones. No texts or emails were provided from the phone that was most relevant (active during the entire 2014 season, including the AFCCG). If you can show me something that controverts that, I would be very interested to see it.

And if the "actual science" would debunk the case, why is it that this science has never been presented?? Certainly the Patriots and/or Brady have the means to fund an experiment that would support their views. I have seen the various reports and presentations that criticize the Exponent methodology, but I have yet to see any "real science" that proves, or even supports, the notion that nothing was done to the balls. For example, I have seen nothing that says, "ok here is the proper way to conduct the experiment, and here we conducted the experiment, and here are the results, and look they show that nothing was done to the Patriots' balls." If you are privy to such "actual science," please provide a link to same. If you are not, then stop suggesting that it exists.

First of all Brady wrote a lengthy letter open to the public detailing the information from the phones that was given to Ted Wells and from their account it satisfied Wellls to the point where he told Brady the phone in question was not needed.

Second the NFL started out by requesting that Columbia University do the scientific testing to check on the effect of the ideal gss law on footballs but then dropped them for Exponent when they realized an honest outcome would debunk their case, so they hired a firm who would rig the findings, and this isn't the first time Exponent has been called out for this kind of activity.

Third, you claimed it was "the truth" that was at issue and I said that science was at the root of "the truth," and it was, as numerous scientific experiments, including one at MIT debunked Exponents findings. The truth is that the balls deflated naturally due to weather, and there is zero " proof, " that it was caused by anything else, which Jeff Pash admitted in Berman's Court, and which actually was what you were more interested in than "the truth."

 

[letekro]

I could post the shortened version, but I think you need a full education.

I have seen the shorter version of this. It is a critique of some of the theory used in the exponent report. I fast forwarded through this version but didnt see any controlled experimentation going on. Is there any? That is what I would like to see, to refute figures 29 and 30 of the Exponent Report.

Any scientific report can be critiqued for methodology. While the narrative on this board is that all scientists agree that the Patriots didnt deflate the balls, there were many physicists who came out in support of the Exponent Report when the media was playing that angle. When the tide turned after the Berman decision, Leonard showed up and the media began actively seeking out scientists that were critical of the Exponent Report. That, I think, has given the false impression that there is a scientific consensus.

 

[JMC00]

That, I think, has given the false impression that there is a scientific consensus.

no ted wells fanboy the consensus has been that IGL caused the balls to lose pressure.

 

[juny]

I have seen the shorter version of this. It is a critique of some of the theory used in the exponent report. I fast forwarded through this version but didnt see any controlled experimentation going on. Is there any? That is what I would like to see, to refute figures 29 and 30 of the Exponent Report.

Any scientific report can be critiqued for methodology. While the narrative on this board is that all scientists agree that the Patriots didnt deflate the balls, there were many physicists who came out in support of the Exponent Report when the media was playing that angle. When the tide turned after the Berman decision, Leonard showed up and the media began actively seeking out scientists that were critical of the Exponent Report. That, I think, has given the false impression that there is a scientific consensus.

many physicists who supported the Exponent report? like who? besides bill nye who only gave sound bites and did no calculations.

 

[JMC00]

here were many physicists who came out in support of the Exponent Report when the media was playing that angle

Links to these many physicists support?

 

[BradyFTW!]

many physicists who supported the Exponent report? like who? besides bill nye who only gave sound bites and did no calculations.

There were some who supported that Brady must have done something based on Mort's initial tweet that 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI under. But once those numbers were proven to be false, anyone with an ounce of integrity and/or intelligence realized that there was no evidence of tampering, and in fact that the deflation was 100% due to natural causes.

It's simple, middle school-level science. Anyone who claims that there's any evidence at all of tampering based on the pressure loss is either stupid or disingenuous, no exceptions.

 

[JMC00]

many physicists who supported the Exponent report? like who? besides bill nye who only gave sound bites and did no calculations.

Pretty sure he didn't even concur with them. He only talked about it in the lead up to SB (the numbers were the one's mortensen put out) and he is also a Seahawks homer, so there was that angle.

 

[JMC00]

There were some who supported that Brady must have done something based on Mort's initial tweet that 11 of 12 balls were 2 PSI under. But once those numbers were proven to be false, anyone with an ounce of integrity and/or intelligence realized that there was no evidence of tampering, and in fact that the deflation was 100% due to natural causes.

It's simple, middle school-level science. Anyone who claims that there's any evidence at all of tampering based on the pressure loss is either stupid or disingenuous, no exceptions.

Yep guys like Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson were all basing it on the numbers mortenson put out but once the actual numbers came out months later the overwhelming opinion became that it was IGL not human deflation.

 

[XLIX]

Yep guys like Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson were all basing it on the numbers mortenson put out but once the actual numbers came out months later the overwhelming opinion became that it was IGL not human deflation.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson based his calculations on the erroneous 2 PSI figure AND he erroneously used gauge pressure when he should have used actual pressure. He was honest enough to admit his mistake, but the frenzy had already been generated.

Bill Nye really didn't say anything worthwhile; he just criticized the Patriots' explanation.

 

[NashuaPats]

Yep guys like Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson were all basing it on the numbers mortenson put out but once the actual numbers came out months later the overwhelming opinion became that it was IGL not human deflation.

Exactly, there were scientists who came out against the Pats when they had the false information provided by the NFL. I haven't read anywhere that any scientist agreed with Exponent's work except the one who was paid by the NFL and worked with Exponent. Letekro is just being his usual disingenuous self. The science proves that the balls measured as expected and there is no reason to believe they were tampered with.

 

[letekro]

Exactly, there were scientists who came out against the Pats when they had the false information provided by the NFL. I haven't read anywhere that any scientist agreed with Exponent's work except the one who was paid by the NFL and worked with Exponent. Letekro is just being his usual disingenuous self. The science proves that the balls measured as expected and there is no reason to believe they were tampered with.

This may be true. Schmaltz of BU, Nathan of Illinois, Gay of Nebraska all came out supporting the Report initially. But a review of their statements indicates that they hadn't studied the Report closely. Of course, Dan Marlow is highly respected as well, although I think it is conceivable he was just a hired gun here. The one mention I have seen of experiments being conducted are the ones by the carnegie mellon guy. Anyone know anything about these. He is a self-admitted patriots fan, but I would be interested in seeing his results.

 

[IllegalContact]

I have seen the shorter version of this. It is a critique of some of the theory used in the exponent report. I fast forwarded through this version but didnt see any controlled experimentation going on. Is there any? That is what I would like to see, to refute figures 29 and 30 of the Exponent Report.

Any scientific report can be critiqued for methodology. While the narrative on this board is that all scientists agree that the Patriots didnt deflate the balls, there were many physicists who came out in support of the Exponent Report when the media was playing that angle. When the tide turned after the Berman decision, Leonard showed up and the media began actively seeking out scientists that were critical of the Exponent Report. That, I think, has given the false impression that there is a scientific consensus.

I can think of many scientific reports I have been involved with that are bullet-proof when it comes to methodology..........IGL is pretty clear and the methodology of testing this is incredibly simple......unless you need to complicate it for the purpose of reverse engineering a result to support an initial claim.

this idea that if there is any way possible that Brady might be guilty of something/anything has no merit

"Deflator" - any idiot knows that's what you call the guy who deflates the ball...........down to 12.5 psi
"Cell Phone" - he was told it wasn't needed.....so he crushed it.....end of story....Brady did nothing wrong

People need to stop with this stupidity once and for all.....this whole thing was a bag job where ball pressure and bringing the balls into the bathroom for 90 seconds has nothing to do with the expected outcome.......which is for other ownerships to offset their own incompetence by placing a burden on the Pats.

The manner in which the NFL has pursued this issue says only one thing......."get the Pats"

 

[letekro]

I can think of many scientific reports I have been involved with that are bullet-proof when it comes to methodology..........IGL is pretty clear and the methodology of testing this is incredibly simple......unless you need to complicate it for the purpose of reverse engineering a result to support an initial claim.

this idea that if there is any way possible that Brady might be guilty of something/anything has no merit

"Deflator" - any idiot knows that's what you call the guy who deflates the ball...........down to 12.5 psi
"Cell Phone" - he was told it wasn't needed.....so he crushed it.....end of story....Brady did nothing wrong

People need to stop with this stupidity once and for all.....this whole thing was a bag job where ball pressure and bringing the balls into the bathroom for 90 seconds has nothing to do with the expected outcome.......which is for other ownerships to offset their own incompetence by placing a burden on the Pats.

The manner in which the NFL has pursued this issue says only one thing......."get the Pats"

This is my overall view as well. Just trying to flesh out some of the prickly details here.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Yep guys like Bill Nye and Neil Degrasse Tyson were all basing it on the numbers mortenson put out but once the actual numbers came out months later the overwhelming opinion became that it was IGL not human deflation.

And even NdT ****ed up his original calculation by failing to account for atmospheric pressure. And Bill Nye has a bachelor's in mechanical engineering, which makes him no more qualified an authority on this subject than a good handful of people posting on this forum.

Both of these guys did sloppy work that demonstrates they're more celebrity than scientist, and yeah, that was all before the actual numbers came out. I don't think either has addressed the topic since then, since they were both just pandering to a bunch of idiots who were happy to hear confirmation of their uninformed opinions.

 

[IllegalContact]

This is my overall view as well. Just trying to flesh out some of the prickly details here.

LOL

nahhh.....you're just trying to play naysayer but doing it rather poorly