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Jonathan Cooper before now

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So.... Any defensive lineman who actually wants to play (ahem... Suh.. He purposely tanked to get off that team look it up) will destroy Cooper. Go look at tape he's a bum and a major bust. And no one not even this great scar will salvage him

Lets see. For one, he broke his leg in his 4th preseason game his rookie year and that was it for him. Secondly, they don't have an offensive line coach in AZ so that lack of individual coaching is somewhat bizarre and no doubt stunted his growth.

They will get what they will out of him and it wouldn't be shocking to see him round back into form. I'm sure your Dolphins will finish a respectable 7-9 this upcoming season. Meanwhile, Cooper will be on a team that is playing late into January at the worst.
 
Lets see. For one, he broke his leg in his 4th preseason game his rookie year and that was it for him. Secondly, they don't have an offensive line coach in AZ so that lack of individual coaching is somewhat bizarre and no doubt stunted his growth.

They will get what they will out of him and it wouldn't be shocking to see him round back into form. I'm sure your Dolphins will finish a respectable 7-9 this upcoming season. Meanwhile, Cooper will be on a team that is playing late into January at the worst.
Round back into form??
What form?!? He's been terrible. Don't you have to have been good to return to form? And I am most certainly not a fin fan
 
Round back into form??
What form?!? He's been terrible. Don't you have to have been good to return to form? And I am most certainly not a fin fan

He started on an undefeated Cardinals team for most of the year. He's never lived up to his talent potential, but he's not some nothingburger either.
 
Round back into form??
What form?!? He's been terrible. Don't you have to have been good to return to form? And I am most certainly not a fin fan

Sure you are. You have 14 posts and joined on Tuesday. Now you are spewing BS about a player the Pats just traded for. Let me ask you who Akeem Ayers was before he came to NE? Same things were heard about him. Bust, can't play etc. Akiem Hicks? Same basic stuff. I can go on and on, and if you were a true Pats fan you would know this.

Instead you aren't and can't.
 
Why? Are you biased and think he can hold his own? I don't. Tell me do teams depart with good linemen In a trade ? Not y very often... Because when you have great lineman you usually keep them. You think he can block a guy like suh?

Look at you... Why don't you do something with your life?! Sit around on this message board all day... You contribute nothing to society! You're just taking up space! I mean how can I speak with someone like you? I wouldn't respect myself!
 
Secondly, they don't have an offensive line coach in AZ so that lack of individual coaching is somewhat bizarre and no doubt stunted his growth.

Going from no OL coach to the best OL coach.. Just on that alone he will improve. Scar coached a friggen wrestler up that didn't play college football and had him as a starter for 7 years.
 
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What is up with blind Homer biased fans these days.. U act like they can do no wrong!
 
What is up with blind Homer biased fans these days.. U act like they can do no wrong!

relatively speaking, they can't....in a league designed for parity, Over the last 15 years:
4 SB wins
6 SB appearances
10 AFC championship appearances (including 5 straight)
13 Playoff appearances

that's about as 'can do no wrong' as you can get in this league

it's the ones who showed up as nobodies or reclamation projects who have made this run possible

now if a Jets fan was saying the same ****, you might have a point..........might

either way......keep trolling fool!
 
So I was thinking about our OL today. And Jonathan Cooper. Well the guy was the #7 overall pick in the 2013 draft. Pats Pulpit has a nice article highlighting his strengths.

Revisiting Jonathan Cooper's Scouting Report

I'm thinking if this young man could return to what all the scouts said he could turn into, we could have a real special player. Can Dante work his magic? Was Cooper just in the wrong environment and had a bad start?

I mean his draft grade predicted him to be a perennial all-pro player. Really?
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Jonathan Cooper

Walter Football said: "Cooper is a rare athlete. He is extremely fast and agile for an interior offensive lineman. He is lightning fast firing out of his stance and gets on defenders before they are ready. Cooper uses his speed to win at the second level. He is extremely skilled at hitting blocks in space due to how fast and athletic he is. Cooper could be one of the fastest interior linemen in the NFL.
...
Cooper looks like an instant starter and a future Pro Bowl-caliber player. "

Read more at WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Sylvester Williams

Could Cooper be the missing piece to the OL if he returns to what everyone expected him to be? Is good coaching the main ingredient that he was missing before?
 
So I was thinking about our OL today. And Jonathan Cooper. Well the guy was the #7 overall pick in the 2013 draft. Pats Pulpit has a nice article highlighting his strengths.

Revisiting Jonathan Cooper's Scouting Report

I'm thinking if this young man could return to what all the scouts said he could turn into, we could have a real special player. Can Dante work his magic? Was Cooper just in the wrong environment and had a bad start?

I mean his draft grade predicted him to be a perennial all-pro player. Really?
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Jonathan Cooper

Walter Football said: "Cooper is a rare athlete. He is extremely fast and agile for an interior offensive lineman. He is lightning fast firing out of his stance and gets on defenders before they are ready. Cooper uses his speed to win at the second level. He is extremely skilled at hitting blocks in space due to how fast and athletic he is. Cooper could be one of the fastest interior linemen in the NFL.
...
Cooper looks like an instant starter and a future Pro Bowl-caliber player. "

Read more at WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Sylvester Williams

Could Cooper be the missing piece to the OL if he returns to what everyone expected him to be? Is good coaching the main ingredient that he was missing before?

Good post.

Its been said before - and I agree with is that if this coaching staff can't turn him around and get the most out of him then no one can. He was with a pretty damn good program in AZ and just got lost in the shuffle.

He was the player to be named later in the Jones for a 2nd deal so its not like they gave up the farm to get him.

What I do know if that you can't teach talent, physical makeup and athleticism and he has it in spades.

What we don't know is his desire and work ethic and football IQ.

We will find out soon enough.
 
So I was thinking about our OL today. And Jonathan Cooper. Well the guy was the #7 overall pick in the 2013 draft. Pats Pulpit has a nice article highlighting his strengths.

Revisiting Jonathan Cooper's Scouting Report

I'm thinking if this young man could return to what all the scouts said he could turn into, we could have a real special player. Can Dante work his magic? Was Cooper just in the wrong environment and had a bad start?

I mean his draft grade predicted him to be a perennial all-pro player. Really?
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Jonathan Cooper

Walter Football said: "Cooper is a rare athlete. He is extremely fast and agile for an interior offensive lineman. He is lightning fast firing out of his stance and gets on defenders before they are ready. Cooper uses his speed to win at the second level. He is extremely skilled at hitting blocks in space due to how fast and athletic he is. Cooper could be one of the fastest interior linemen in the NFL.
...
Cooper looks like an instant starter and a future Pro Bowl-caliber player. "

Read more at WalterFootball.com: 2013 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Sylvester Williams

Could Cooper be the missing piece to the OL if he returns to what everyone expected him to be? Is good coaching the main ingredient that he was missing before?

I think the biggest problem with Cooper beyond the obvious injury issues has been his "mental toughness". There is no question he has the athletic potential to be the guy who was drafted in the top 10 of the first round. as you pointed out I think that last season proved (before his injury) that Cooper was good enough to be an average starting NFL OG. What he has failed at (so far) is prove that he was worthy of being a top 10 first round pick The big question for the Pats is whether Scar can bring out that talent. Or rather will Cooper be able to take the "tough love" coaching that Scar is so well known for.

No one really has a clue, but in the great scheme of things, for the Pats it was a reasonable risk to take, given what they were giving up and what they were getting. They gave up a proven pass rusher who had some flaws, to gain some cap space, a pick at the end of the 2nd round, and a "POTENTIAL" great OG, at a position of need.

If Cooper doesn't reach his potential and Jones reaches his HIS for an entire season, then the Cards got the better of the deal. IF Cooper becomes a starter and Jones does what he did in NE, then it was a good deal for both sides. If Cooper reaches his potential AND the pick they get becomes a starter than the Pats will "win" this trade even if Jones gets his dozen sacks per year to go along with is big contract.

Only time will tell
 
I think the biggest problem with Cooper beyond the obvious injury issues has been his "mental toughness". There is no question he has the athletic potential to be the guy who was drafted in the top 10 of the first round. as you pointed out I think that last season proved (before his injury) that Cooper was good enough to be an average starting NFL OG. What he has failed at (so far) is prove that he was worthy of being a top 10 first round pick The big question for the Pats is whether Scar can bring out that talent. Or rather will Cooper be able to take the "tough love" coaching that Scar is so well known for.

No one really has a clue, but in the great scheme of things, for the Pats it was a reasonable risk to take, given what they were giving up and what they were getting. They gave up a proven pass rusher who had some flaws, to gain some cap space, a pick at the end of the 2nd round, and a "POTENTIAL" great OG, at a position of need.

If Cooper doesn't reach his potential and Jones reaches his HIS for an entire season, then the Cards got the better of the deal. IF Cooper becomes a starter and Jones does what he did in NE, then it was a good deal for both sides. If Cooper reaches his potential AND the pick they get becomes a starter than the Pats will "win" this trade even if Jones gets his dozen sacks per year to go along with is big contract.

Only time will tell

Part of the equation for determining if the Jones trade was a "win" for the Pats is if it allows them to keep another of the Hightower-Collins-Butler triumvirate of terror.
 
What is with the, cut him before the Patriots staff even get to see what he's got, fans these days?
I suspect "Deadpool" is a Broncos fan, since talks about how defensive lineman will "rape" Cooper. If I recall, their board loves to talk about rape. Won't swear to it, though, it might have been the Chiefs.
 
I suspect "Deadpool" is a Broncos fan, since talks about how defensive lineman will "rape" Cooper. If I recall, their board loves to talk about rape. Won't swear to it, though, it might have been the Chiefs.

Not sure which team he is a fan of but he is definitely a troll. Illegal and others tore him up pretty good so it was worth the laugh.
 
You can make as many injury excuses as you want but the bottom line is that the players we have in the OL have not shown any proof they are good.
What do you disagree with below.

Solder is above average but the nature of his injury is worrisome

Volmer is injury prone and it appears the plethora of injuries he has sustained has left him as average at best.

Stork was an avg center in 14 and below bag in 15.

Every G who played last season was below average and as a group probably the worst in the NFL.

Cannon stinks.
Waddle was cast off by the Lions and resigned with us for cheap meaning no one out there considers him starter caliber.

If the 1976 Tampa bay bucs had more injuries than any team ever you could try to use that as an excuse but the talent they had wasn't any good healthy or not.

We have to be carful blaming injuries when the majority of the injured players played like crap when they were healthy.


Understand what you're driving at but I look at it from a different perspective.

The Pats were 3 points away from getting to the SB last year. They were 1 game away from having HFA. So I use that as my base to evaluate the O line and team adjustments this offseason.

IF the O line had been healthy for the second half of the season would the Pats have made it to the SB? I say yes they would have.

IF Scar had been the O line coach last season would the Pats have made it to the SB? I say yes to that as well.

(I am only focusing on the Oline but you could also add that if any one of the key players (Edelman, Lewis, Amendola, Gronk etc..) had been healthy in the last part of the season that the Pats would have had HFA and a trip to the SB)

I look at the performance on a relevant basis. So any improvement Scar can bring and any improvement in the health category, which would have netted a SB appearance or victory last season, as an improvement.

It would be nice to have the #1 O line, Offense, D line, Defense, Special teams, etc...etc... but if the performance as a whole can net a SB appearance then the team was good enough.

So the question is do you think the Oline will be better than last year? I say yes it will be.

Will the health of the team overall be better than last year? How could it be worse? That had to have been the worst injury laden season I've seen.

I do hope to see them to continue to address the O line though although I do think they already have the pieces to field a decent line.

On paper this team is primed for another championship run. IMO.
 
Ross Tucker seems to agree with your first two sentences...



It would be almost impossible for him to be worse than Ross Tucker was here. If he suits up for two games, he's the victor in that match up.

Have a little shame Ross, we consult Pro Football reference here.
 
Round back into form??
What form?!? He's been terrible. Don't you have to have been good to return to form? And I am most certainly not a fin fan
The form that made him 7th pick in the draft.
 
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