NFL's Integrity* on display again: league hid $100M+ from players to keep salary cap down

[RobertWeathers]

To be fair it is more like certain expenses were put into a category that was exempt from the cap calculation. The league "believed" it belonged there the NFLPA disagreed and won their appeal.

It's not like they didnt report the money. They are millions maybe billions of expenses that go Into that category. Apparently the league tried to be creative with what they snuck in there.

Clearly. The NFL arbitrarily decided to earmark revenue from ticket sales for stadium-related projects.

LOL

 

[Ring 6]

Clearly. The NFL arbitrarily decided to earmark revenue from ticket sales for stadium-related projects.

LOL

It is part of the CBA that they can do that. There was a disagreement over the amount and methods.

 

[RobertWeathers]

It is part of the CBA that they can do that. There was a disagreement over the amount and methods.

Correct. They arbitrarily created a category not defined in the CBA when there was one.

 

[Ring 6]

Correct. They arbitrarily created a category not defined in the CBA when there was one.

OK, obviously you like your wording better because it seems more deliberate and vicious.

 

[RobertWeathers]

OK, obviously you like your wording better because it seems more deliberate and vicious.

I am because I don't think it was an honest mistake.

 

[Marko]

Isn't this fraud?

 

[Ring 6]

I am because I don't think it was an honest mistake.

I'd call it a gray area more than a malicious vile deception.
I know its popular to see the NFL as scum these days, but I don't think overreacting to everything they do helps. It belittles the argument about what is really wrong to turn every little thing into dishonest scumbaggerry.
This was a typical business move. If you don't think any corp in a similar situation would be liberal in how they define the accounting categories, I think you would be wrong. Its interpretation on books that are open to the NFLPA.
The fact that they call it an accounting issue, is normal PR, of someone who lost in arbitration. What would you like them to have said?

 

[Ring 6]

Isn't this fraud?

No

 

[Huckleberry1]

It's really is amazing that the NFL has become so openly corrupt.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'd call it a gray area more than a malicious vile deception. I know its popular to see the NFL as scum these days, but I don't think overreacting to everything they do helps. It belittles the argument about what is really wrong to turn every little thing into dishonest scumbaggerry.

We will disagree. The fact is that the league created a revenue expenditure journal entry in which was not agreed-to as defined in the CBA. Gimme a break. That is a red flag right there. The NFL has CBA compliance officers on staff and on retainer (guess the law firm). Without a penalty system in place for financial flim-flamming you don't think they huddled on this and decided to roll the dice and take the risk? The NFL- actually I understand it was more the individual teams were trying to pull a fast one had done so for years and the NFL was complicit with the practice. Was it malcious? I dunna know but it was absolutely dishonest and sneaky.

IThis was a typical business move. If you don't think any corp in a similar situation would be liberal in how they define the accounting categories, I think you would be wrong. Its interpretation on books that are open to the NFLPA. The fact that they call it an accounting issue, is normal PR, of someone who lost in arbitration. What would you like them to have said?

I'm very familiar with how a corporation reports its earnings and the shell game and bull **** leading up to it. I also understand the NFLs spin with regard to the matter. I've heard it all before. The fact is that if the NFL was a publicly-held company they would have been fined by the SEC for misreporting their earnings (which happens a ton. Believe me)

With all that said, WTF were the NFLPA auditor's looking at? For three years the NFL was doing this?The journal entry was Incremental Gate VTS (Visiting Team Share) which is revenue. How can not question that?....my god.

 

[XLIX]

To be fair it is more like certain expenses were put into a category that was exempt from the cap calculation. The league "believed" it belonged there the NFLPA disagreed and won their appeal.

It's not like they didnt report the money. They are millions maybe billions of expenses that go Into that category. Apparently the league tried to be creative with what they snuck in there.

If you think they deliberately miscategorized funds and hoped no one would notice, then that's textbook embezzlement.

If you think it was an honest mistake, then God bless your heart.

 

[DaBruinz]

If I was the NFLPA I would not sign another CBA without getting guaranteed contracts. The NFL is the only one of the professional sports league, where a contract isn't really worth the paper its written on. Guaranteed contracts would be tough on the teams and the salary cap, but if I'm the NFLPA, I'm not signing any CBA without it.

They aren't going to get guaranteed contracts. Not without a wholesale change to the entire Salary Cap system. And then it will become like baseball..

 

[DaBruinz]

The union should probably call a strike next season. You're at a point where public opinion is fully against the NFL. There's really no better time to do it.

I'm not a contract attorney, but it would seem to me that this violation of the CBA is HUGE and would, therefore, entile the players to more than just the money that the arbitrator ruled on. If I'm the players, I push for the removal of Goodell because the buck stops with him when it comes to how the NFL offices are run..

 

[DaBruinz]

Higher salary cap with higher veteran and rookie minimums, renegotiated pension scheme, public financials, opening research on CTE to public, and end to Goodellian Terror (though, despite Patriots' fans issues with him, the person of commissioner doesn't mean as much as removing the commissioner's right to discipline by fiat) should be minimum demands.

Increasing wages and benefits are always good as a union demand; concussion research has a ton of public support; public financials increase the likelihood for better negotiations in the future; and the discipline thing is totally bogus.

Wishful thinking on your part for a majority of that.
The owners aren't going to open up the financials. They are all private business entities except for the Packers.

Players already get a ridiculous amount of money to start with and you ignore the benefits they get.

I'm pretty sure they already redid the pension in each of the last 2 CBAs..

Getting rid of Goodell and a change to the section that Goodell has been abusing are the most likely things to be changed.. Not necessarily in that order.

 

[DaBruinz]

The identity of the Commissioner is a red herring. The issue is about how the relationships are structured. If the focus is on Goodell, and he leaves the job, then the same problems resurface with the next guy.

I'd suggest that the next round of negotiations focus on the job, not the person. Take the Commissioners job completely out of dealing with the players and teams at all; no rules interpretations, no penalties, none of that. Have all of that be entirely done through independent panels. That circumscribes the Commissioner's role to just dealing with the owners as owners. Then, who cares who they appoint? It is entirely their business.

The part in bold is what I disagree with. You'd have a point if Tagliabue had been as bad as Goodell when it comes to discipline. The section of the CBA in question has been in the CBA for decades (from the initial CBA from my understanding). How many times did players take the NFL to court over punishments under Tagliabue? Once? Three times at the most? Goodell is now on his 4th or 5th MAJOR case.. He lost the BountyGate and Ray Rice cases.. He lost the Petersen and Brady cases initially with both under appeal. And in all likelihood, he's going to lose both..

I believe that the section in question just needs to be changed to remove the Commissioner as a potential arbiter. THAT solved the problem. Independent panels do not solve the problem. It just creates another venue for the players and league to fight..

 

[Ring 6]

If you think they deliberately miscategorized funds and hoped no one would notice, then that's textbook embezzlement.

If you think it was an honest mistake, then God bless your heart.

When did I say that is what they did? First of all, none of us know the exact details, but basically they included one type of revenue under an umbrella that included many types of revenues. Was there intent to slip it through and hope no one noticed? Maybe, but maybe they felt it was a gray area open to interpretation.

I'm not sure what your issue is. There is a process. They take cap numbers from the NFLs books and the NFLPA has a right to audit, which they did. The sides disagreed so they arbitrated.
I don't think you understand what embezzlement is.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not a contract attorney, but it would seem to me that this violation of the CBA is HUGE and would, therefore, entile the players to more than just the money that the arbitrator ruled on. If I'm the players, I push for the removal of Goodell because the buck stops with him when it comes to how the NFL offices are run..

Huh? The agreed upon dispute resolution process took place. Why would the players be entitled to anything?
Can we please not clown ourselves by overreacting to everything about the NFL and focus on the real stuff that is wrong, so the attention stays there?
Complaining about stuff like this by inventing the worse case intentions and behind the scenes dealings makes us look like the ones on a witch hunt.

 

[XLIX]

The part in bold is what I disagree with. You'd have a point if Tagliabue had been as bad as Goodell when it comes to discipline. The section of the CBA in question has been in the CBA for decades (from the initial CBA from my understanding). How many times did players take the NFL to court over punishments under Tagliabue? Once? Three times at the most? Goodell is now on his 4th or 5th MAJOR case.. He lost the BountyGate and Ray Rice cases.. He lost the Petersen and Brady cases initially with both under appeal. And in all likelihood, he's going to lose both..

The NFL didn't discipline under Tagliabue for things not specifically covered in the CBA (such as drug offenses). That's why they never got taken to court. And that's why Rod Smith could beat his girlfriend senseless and choke her and get nothing more than a $25,000 fine from the league.

I hate the obscenely incompetent Goodell, but I'm not sure the Tagliabue method is ideal either.

 

[Ring 6]

We will disagree. The fact is that the league created a revenue expenditure journal entry in which was not agreed-to as defined in the CBA. Gimme a break. That is a red flag right there. The NFL has CBA compliance officers on staff and on retainer (guess the law firm). Without a penalty system in place for financial flim-flamming you don't think they huddled on this and decided to roll the dice and take the risk? The NFL- actually I understand it was more the individual teams were trying to pull a fast one had done so for years and the NFL was complicit with the practice. Was it malcious? I dunna know but it was absolutely dishonest and sneaky.



I'm very familiar with how a corporation reports its earnings and the shell game and bull **** leading up to it. I also understand the NFLs spin with regard to the matter. I've heard it all before. The fact is that if the NFL was a publicly-held company they would have been fined by the SEC for misreporting their earnings (which happens a ton. Believe me)

With all that said, WTF were the NFLPA auditor's looking at? For three years the NFL was doing this?The journal entry was Incremental Gate VTS (Visiting Team Share) which is revenue. How can not question that?....my god.

Frankly, we both have nowhere near the full set of facts.
My point was trashing the NFL over every little thing and making every assumption against them is like us being Ted Wells, and we look like whiners who refuse to see there are 2 sides.
I think it takes away from the focus on whats really wrong, but go ahead bash away.

 

[XLIX]

When did I say that is what they did? First of all, none of us know the exact details, but basically they included one type of revenue under an umbrella that included many types of revenues. Was there intent to slip it through and hope no one noticed? Maybe, but maybe they felt it was a gray area open to interpretation.

I'm not sure what your issue is. There is a process. They take cap numbers from the NFLs books and the NFLPA has a right to audit, which they did. The sides disagreed so they arbitrated.
I don't think you understand what embezzlement is.

It is the deliberately misappropriation of funds that someone is responsible for. If you don't see how this is embezzlement if it was done deliberately, then I'm afraid you're the one who doesn't know what embezzlement is.

You're right none of us know the details, but I know the NFL has a history of lying and deceiving. So they get no benefit of the doubt in my book. If you want to foolishly believe this was just an accident, then enjoy living in imaginary land.