OT: Onside kick last night

[Froob]

Curious for you experts here, is this a perfect kick or poor coverage by Clemson or some combination of the two? Real gutsy call last night.

 

[BobDigital]

Really poor coverage and being totally unprepared. Good call considering how poor the coverage was.

 

[Big-T]

Great execution by Alabama.

You can see that Clemson are set up with nobody 10 yards from the line on either side, instead opting to have them a good 20 yards back. The thing is with kick offs is as a return team you have 9 or 10 players to cover the space so there will always be gaps to exploit somewhere.

Clearly something the Alabama ST coaches have picked up on film/during the game and countered.

 

[CISGS]

Both.

Absolutely perfect kick

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I've always wanted to see an onsides kick done like that.

 

[Wheelman]

That was a ball so hard call!

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Serious cajones to make that call by Saban. The Clemson coach went ballistic but it was totally legal. I think he was more embarrassed than anything.

I think roughly 50% of unexpected onside kicks are recovered, compared to something like 15% for expected.

 

[Ring 6]

We did that in High School 30 years ago. I was the second guy from the end whose job it was to take out the guy trying to catch it. Clemson didn't even have a guy. It didn't work that well against HS kids. The kick was nothing special, with practice its pretty easy.
In our case we would do the old school thing where we would have a guy facing the KO team right next to the ball who put his hands up and dropped them as a go signal so everyone would stay onside. He would spin around and kick the popup instead of the K.

 

[Concussion Protocol]

That really was a great kick. I don't know how it's possible to bang the ball into the turf and make it bounce into the intended target's arms with the accuracy of a pass.

 

[Ring 6]

That really was a great kick. I don't know how it's possible to bang the ball into the turf and make it bounce into the intended target's arms with the accuracy of a pass.

He didn't kick it into the turf, he popped it up. Just a short kick.

 

[Concussion Protocol]

He didn't kick it into the turf, he popped it up. Just a short kick.

Well that makes it easier. In that case, could Clemson have simply called for a fair catch if the kick was off by a bit?

 

[Ring 6]

Well that makes it easier. In that case, could Clemson have simply called for a fair catch if the kick was off by a bit?

Yes they could have. Normally the guy up their blocking wouldn't think about that. Now it will be coached though.
The problem is the guy was nowhere near the ball. Like 15 yards away. Great film study by Saban turned it into a very easy play, as long as the guy kept doing what they saw on film.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

Clemson was kind of bunched in, so there was an open area near the sideline 12-15 yards downfield.

It was very similar to a situation that Belichick tried to exploit a few games back with a kick by Nate Ebner.

In both cases there was a pretty open area in the kick coverage where someone on the kicking team had a decent chance of beating an opponent to the ball.

In out case, Ebner didn't quite put the kick in the right spot. Same idea though.

 

[Froob]

Serious cajones to make that call by Saban. The Clemson coach went ballistic but it was totally legal. I think he was more embarrassed than anything.

I think roughly 50% of unexpected onside kicks are recovered, compared to something like 15% for expected.

What were they complaining about?

 

[Concussion Protocol]

Yes they could have. Normally the guy up their blocking wouldn't think about that. Now it will be coached though.
The problem is the guy was nowhere near the ball. Like 15 yards away. Great film study by Saban turned it into a very easy play, as long as the guy kept doing what they saw on film.

Ya, Saban definitely had this planned well. Dabs was probably mad because the ball wasn't driven into the ground and he thought his players had a right to the ball until it hit the ground.

 

[neuronet]

Suspect coaching from Clemson. They knew they were vulnerable to onside kicks from the UNC game a few weeks ago, but didn't correct it. Saban rocked it last night.

 

[Ring 6]

Ya, Saban definitely had this planned well. Dabs was probably mad because the ball wasn't driven into the ground and he thought his players had a right to the ball until it hit the ground.

Surprising though that this play has been around at least 35 years and no one coaches against it. I guess its just used so rarely people forget.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

What were they complaining about?

They were discussing this on the Dan Patrick show this morning and here's a link:

Nick Saban brings his own guts with an Alabama onside kick for the ages - CBSSports.com

It was the ultimate sign of respect for Clemson that Saban felt he had to call the onside kick. It left Clemson dazed and confused and furious, with Dabo Swinney oddly arguing that the Tigers weren't given an opportunity to catch the ball.

There was no opportunity to catch the ball because Clemson never saw it coming. Who did other than a handful of Alabama coaches?

Sweeney explained that Clemson ran a play like that last year, a short "pop up" kick, and were penalized when they grabbed the ball as an opponent was going for it. They were called for interfering with the opportunity to make the catch. Apparently that is a thing, when the kick is all air and is not bounced, even if you don't call for a fair catch (someone correct me if I am wrong), the receiving team is entitled to a chance to make a play on the ball in the air if its never bounced. In this case, though, there was nobody on the receiving team anywhere near enough to be considered to have been interfered with. If nobody is making a play on the ball, nobody is interfering anyone from making a play on the ball.

 

[Froob]

They were discussing this on the Dan Patrick show this morning and here's a link:



Sweeney explained that Clemson ran a play like that last year, a short "pop up" kick, and were penalized when they grabbed the ball as an opponent was going for it. They were called for interfering with the opportunity to make the catch. Apparently that is a thing, when the kick is all air and is not bounced, even if you don't call for a fair catch (someone correct me if I am wrong), the receiving team is entitled to a chance to make a play on the ball in the air if its never bounced. In this case, though, there was nobody on the receiving team anywhere near enough to be considered to have been interfered with. If nobody is making a play on the ball, nobody is interfering anyone from making a play on the ball.

That's bizarre, is that an NFL rule also?

 

[Froob]

Surprising though that this play has been around at least 35 years and no one coaches against it. I guess its just used so rarely people forget.

I think the Jets did something similar in a game vs the Colts in 2006.