Game Thoughts: I am embarrased by this loss edition

[PScottman]

I put most of the blame on the coaching but the players were enemic too today.

The players on this team aren't stupid. (They wouldn't be on the team otherwise) They've likely known since Monday the approach and gameplan and psychologically were set up to be lackluster by those observations of a gameplan that lacked the usual depth, variety, roles, etc.

Anyone that's played competitively in any sport understands that focus, emotion, and faith have a definitive role in success. If players see a staff that is applying conservative concepts, less complexity than normal, and making the safe call on playing injured guys their play can also be similarly less intense.

 

[luuked]

Seriously?!

The Patriots reddit is an embarrassment to the team and reflects poor on the fanbase. The average age there has to be in the teens.

And there's nothing wrong with this thread (yet alone the forum) at all. Lots of valid points.

I go on reddit right and all I see is corny memes and re-posts of tweets & articles.

There are more than just the /patriots/ and /nfl/ subreddit and some of them are invite only so maybe he meant one of those. But yes in general the two above mentioned are a cesspool.

 

[luuked]

The players on this team aren't stupid. (They wouldn't be on the team otherwise) They've likely known since Monday the approach and gameplan and psychologically were set up to be lackluster by those observations of a gameplan that lacked the usual depth, variety, roles, etc.

Anyone that's played competitively in any sport understands that focus, emotion, and faith have a definitive role in success. If players see a staff that is applying conservative concepts, less complexity than normal, and making the safe call on playing injured guys their play can also be similarly less intense.

I fully agree with that and looking at the faces on the sidelines towards the end I think you nailed it.

 

[PScottman]

I'll put money that all 5 are back in the line-up for the Pats when then play in 2 weeks..

But can you guarantee their effectiveness (since you disagreed and guaranteed both availability and outcome)? That is the issue more so than availability.

It will be a huge psychological lift to be sure - most likely to Brady more than anyone. However, if Edelman is more McCourty level back from yesterday vs Chung level back...does that euphoria last? Or say he only plays 10-15 snaps? Is it sustainable?

No one can predict the future to absolutes...the variables remain. Brushing off the last six games as the anomaly fixable simply by JE (and other injured players) showing up - that's an approach I'm pretty sure isn't being taken by the team - they'll cover both likely outcomes in their preparation.

 

[luuked]

Unfortunately, tackle may end up being more of a "need" (I use that term loosely when predicting any draft decisions) than most of us initially expected. I have some worries about the long term prospects of both Solder/Vollmer, and Cannon/Fleming have some obvious question marks as well. It may be time to try and find a new tackle in the middle rounds.

Agree that this year would be an ideal time to get a tackle to groom for a year behind Solder/Vollmer.

 

[luuked]

But can you guarantee their effectiveness (since you disagreed and guaranteed both availability and outcome)? That is the issue more so than availability.

It will be a huge psychological lift to be sure - most likely to Brady more than anyone. However, if Edelman is more McCourty level back from yesterday vs Chung level back...does that euphoria last? Or say he only plays 10-15 snaps? Is it sustainable?

No one can predict the future to absolutes...the variables remain. Brushing off the last six games as the anomaly fixable simply by JE (and other injured players) showing up - that's an approach I'm pretty sure isn't being taken by the team - they'll cover both likely outcomes in their preparation.

No one can predict anything obviously. But e.g. Jules has been back at practice for a while now and I have to trust that the coaching and medical staff with all their experience has enough data points to kinda estimate how much weight you can put on him gameplan-wise.

 

[luuked]

Hate being negative about this team, but we really have been horrible this past month. Soft, conservative and negative. Unless something dramatic changes with the OL and the playcalling it doesn't matter if Edelman is back 100%, we'll be one and done.

Again with the hyperboles. Two purposefully conservative games don't make a bad month. We scored 28, 27, 33 in the first three December games and could have scored more against the Texans and Titans but stayed in cruise control after the game was over.

 

[Rob0729]

Except you are not. Your entire first post was arguing that McD's playcallling for a month was poor (horsecrap as I have pointed out in my fist reply), that BB is playing scared (even more horsecrap unless you mean scared to have even more injured players in meaningless games), that we should spread it out more and motion Gronk around (******** as we staying away from both on purpose) and more whiney crap like that when the reality is that in the last two weeks we played extremely conservative by design and not because of lack of creativity on any side.

What it boils down to and I have said it multiple times in this thread is that except for Brady there was no one we could have really sat anymore because we were playing with only 38-39 healthy players instead of 53.

Chandler has been on the verge of inactivity for 4 weeks because of a knee injury, so no one to take over for Gronk. Amendola didnt even play 50% of snaps and was even then barely targeted. DMac had to play despite being obviously still bothered by the ankle sprain because Richards is also not fully healthy after last week's hit in overtime.

Could Brady have sat? Yes, sure. But as I have argued again and again you don't know ahead what your opponent will give you. The Dolphins could have given us multiple turnovers or blown coverages. And thats when you would want Brady there to take advantage even with a limited team.

I would have been glad to see Jimmy play but get what BB & co. were thinking.

There is enough to critizise in terms of the micro game but it is laughable to think that "BB was outcoached" (more horsecrap from your first post).

Yes, I am saying that they should have spread it out and done the short quick passing. It would have saved Brady from the beating he took in the second half. My point it was the best option over the stupidity they did in the second half.

 

[Rob0729]

You are contradicting yourself in your own answer. On the one hand you say you trust Brady to get rid of the football but then blame the coaching staff for putting him in harms way in a play where he could have easily thrown the ball away but instead tried to make something happen. Suh didn't come towards him from his blind sight, he should have been well aware of it and could have just thrown the ball away.

Of course you can't fully remove the risk of injuries because it is a collision sport that has dozens of serious non contact injuries every season. But you can try to minimize them while still putting yourself in a position to win the game if the other team ****s the bed and that's what they did. The chance of Gronk getting hurt on blocking assignments is considerably smaller than when he is running seam routes. Is the risk zero ? No, but then again it is also not zero during practice or TC as we see every year.

Don't contradict myself at all. I didn't say on 3rd and 14 on the 28 that McDaniels should have called a bomb to the end zone. There are plenty of plays where he could throw a quick pass for 5-10 yards and let the receiver pick up the rest of the yards.

You are really reaching with this one. We are talking 14 yards, not 30.

And you do realize offensive linemen get injured as frequently or more frequently than skill players. Gronk staying in blocking doesn't reduce the risk of injury. You see o-linemen go down all the time because people fall into their legs. So Gronk changes risking injury from a low hit at his knees to risking injuries as someone falls into his knee.

 

[Rob0729]

The players on this team aren't stupid. (They wouldn't be on the team otherwise) They've likely known since Monday the approach and gameplan and psychologically were set up to be lackluster by those observations of a gameplan that lacked the usual depth, variety, roles, etc.

Anyone that's played competitively in any sport understands that focus, emotion, and faith have a definitive role in success. If players see a staff that is applying conservative concepts, less complexity than normal, and making the safe call on playing injured guys their play can also be similarly less intense.

I agree with this, but when you play like that you can actually increase risks of injuries. But it is more reason they should have sat key personnel and gone all out to win. We have seen this team play hard against teams in the final game with Matt Cassel at QB. In fact, sitting more guys may have made Miami check out.

 

[luuked]

Yes, I am saying that they should have spread it out and done the short quick passing. It would have saved Brady from the beating he took in the second half. My point it was the best option over the stupidity they did in the second half.

With what players? Martin can't seem to get open as quickly as Dola or Jules plus he has to deal with the crowded intermediate game. Dola was on a ridiculously low snapcount. LaFell isnt really the quick pass guy. Gronk was mostly by design only in to block or some low risk sidelines shots. White needs to get into open space to use his strengths..

 

[luuked]

Don't contradict myself at all. I didn't say on 3rd and 14 on the 28 that McDaniels should have called a bomb to the end zone. There are plenty of plays where he could throw a quick pass for 5-10 yards and let the receiver pick up the rest of the yards.

You are really reaching with this one. We are talking 14 yards, not 30.

And you do realize offensive linemen get injured as frequently or more frequently than skill players. Gronk staying in blocking doesn't reduce the risk of injury. You see o-linemen go down all the time because people fall into their legs. So Gronk changes risking injury from a low hit at his knees to risking injuries as someone falls into his knee.

Yes you are contradicting yourself by saying on the one hand that we can trust Brady to throw the ball away but then when he refuses to throw it away even though he sees a free rusher coming towards him and tries to make a play its the coaching staff that puts him into harms way.

I never talked about any bombs downfield so I have no clue what you are writing about. My point is that this was as risk averse as you could be with your QB1.



I'd say plays were safeties take shots at Gronk running down the field have a higher risk of injury than him blocking on the edge of the line. But again it is a contact sport and as BB says football players need to play football. It is about minimizing risks not eliminating them.

 

[everlong]

1. I just don't get the half hearted commitment to win the last two weeks but especially this week. If you're not going to really go for it why put Brady and Gronk out there at all? They're lucky Suh didn't end there SB chances. As it was they left the defense out there for 70+ plays because they couldn't maintain a drive. I'm not sure if Amendola tweaked his knee again but he had his knee pad off and was massaging his knee. Why bother putting him out there?

2. Hopefully Vollmer helps solidify the line and having JE back helps Brady help the line but this OL has to be viewed as the weakest link.

3. I know Chandler has been hurt of late but really what a disappointing season. I was one of those who thought that he and Gronk together would be unstoppable. I was so wrong.

4. Lafell has really taken a step back this year. With AD and JE out you would think his production would be up. Unless he explodes in the playoffs I have to wonder if he'll be back next year.

5. If JE and AD are healthy for the playoffs I think Martin could be a break out player. I'd rather have Gronk, JE, AD, Martin and White on the field when they go spread than wasting a spot on Chandler or Lafell.

6. Hicks for Hoo-was-that we traded for him just keeps becoming a bigger steal as time goes one. Another great game. So consistently a difference maker.

7. Might have been rust but I think McCourty came back too soon. He just didn't look as explosive as normal.

8. Apparently going low on the QB penalties don't apply to Brady any longer.

9. If that overturn of the control play is an example of how Blandino is going to review things for the Patriots in the post season they better blow teams out because anything borderline will go against them. I hate the rule as constituted and think that should be a catch by the way it's been called time and again it should not have been.

10. The OPI on Martin was a joke. Watching the Broncos game Emmanuel Sanders did worse on nearly every play.

11. Down the left sideline in the second half a DB clearly blocked Gronk's progress and made major contact after 5 yards. If he breathes on a DB it's an OPI but they have to take him down for him to get the call.

12. I still like the Patriots chances in the post season if they get healthy. I also think Pitt beats Cincy and then beats the Broncos for another one and done for Peyton. I really don't like the KC matchup however. Tough defense with good edge rushers and corners coupled with a mobile QB. I do give Houston a punchers chance against them and I'd much rather face the Texans.

 

[Rob0729]

With what players? Martin can't seem to get open as quickly as Dola or Jules plus he has to deal with the crowded intermediate game. Dola was on a ridiculously low snapcount. LaFell isnt really the quick pass guy. Gronk was mostly by design only in to block or some low risk sidelines shots. White needs to get into open space to use his strengths..

Then don't play Brady. Brady shouldn't have been in for either way they played yesterday. The overly conservative play could have been done by anyone and the vertical passing game gets him hit a lot. I said I was ok with losing the game, but not the way they lost.

But you are overstating how limited they are to spread them out. They never really tried since Amendola was injured. And there is a happy medium from the short passing game and turning Brady into Roethlisberger or Rodgers hucking the ball down field.

 

[Rob0729]

Yes you are contradicting yourself by saying on the one hand that we can trust Brady to throw the ball away but then when he refuses to throw it away even though he sees a free rusher coming towards him and tries to make a play its the coaching staff that puts him into harms way.

I never talked about any bombs downfield so I have no clue what you are writing about. My point is that this was as risk averse as you could be with your QB1.



I'd say plays were safeties take shots at Gronk running down the field have a higher risk of injury than him blocking on the edge of the line. But again it is a contact sport and as BB says football players need to play football. It is about minimizing risks not eliminating them.

First, there are plenty of plays in that situation where Brady can get rid of the ball in under 2 seconds and still have the receivers in the position to pick up the first down if the play works.


Second, trusting Brady to get rid of the ball does not mean him taking a hit. There are plenty of plays where if the first read isn't there, the QB is supposed to just get rid of the ball even if he isn't pressured.

Third, the only way to protect Brady from not getting hit is sit him. He could get hit on every play.

Fourth, I am talking about them consistently putting Brady in harms way by turning this offense into a vertical offense where he is getting hit on every play. I am complaining is the game plan in the second half is to allow Brady to get hit a lot because of how long the play took to develop. I wouldn't have a problem if they had one or two of these types of plays. But they did it a lot.

Fourth, I still disagree Gronk staying in to block minimizes risks. The Pats starting Marcus Cannon and Cam Flemming at tackle yesterday speaks to that. They have had as many injuries at tackle this season as they have had with the receivers.

Fifth, I don't agree that they had Gronk block to reduce the risk of injuries to him. Maybe to Brady. But this isn't the first time where Gronk has had a significant increase in blocking duties when the o-line struggled.

 

[luuked]

First, there are plenty of plays in that situation where Brady can get rid of the ball in under 2 seconds and still have the receivers in the position to pick up the first down if the play works.


Second, trusting Brady to get rid of the ball does not mean him taking a hit. There are plenty of plays where if the first read isn't there, the QB is supposed to just get rid of the ball even if he isn't pressured.

Third, the only way to protect Brady from not getting hit is sit him. He could get hit on every play.

Fourth, I am talking about them consistently putting Brady in harms way by turning this offense into a vertical offense where he is getting hit on every play. I am complaining is the game plan in the second half is to allow Brady to get hit a lot because of how long the play took to develop. I wouldn't have a problem if they had one or two of these types of plays. But they did it a lot.

Fourth, I still disagree Gronk staying in to block minimizes risks. The Pats starting Marcus Cannon and Cam Flemming at tackle yesterday speaks to that. They have had as many injuries at tackle this season as they have had with the receivers.

Fifth, I don't agree that they had Gronk block to reduce the risk of injuries to him. Maybe to Brady. But this isn't the first time where Gronk has had a significant increase in blocking duties when the o-line struggled.

Anyway I am done disagreeing with you because it goes nowhere like a dog hunting its tail.

Am moving on and just agree to disagree with your opinion.

 

[Rob0729]

Anyway I am done disagreeing with you because it goes nowhere like a dog hunting its tail.

Am moving on and just agree to disagree with your opinion.

Well considering Belichick's excellent strategy of playing to protect his players got Brady a sprained ankle and bruised ribs yesterday, you should stop.

 

[PatsFan2]

I know Chandler has been hurt of late but really what a disappointing season. I was one of those who thought that he and Gronk together would be unstoppable. I was so wrong.

4. Lafell has really taken a step back this year. With AD and JE out you would think his production would be up. Unless he explodes in the playoffs I have to wonder if he'll be back next year.

5. If JE and AD are healthy for the playoffs I think Martin could be a break out player. I'd rather have Gronk, JE, AD, Martin and White on the field when they go spread than wasting a spot on Chandler or Lafell.

I will take those to go please couldn't agree more regarding the players in question Scott Chandler and LaFell talk about hitting a wall.

 

[luuked]

Well considering Belichick's excellent strategy of playing to protect his players got Brady a sprained ankle and bruised ribs yesterday, you should stop.

Maybe his royal highness should consider throwing a ball away earlier now and then especially when he sees Suh coming towards him. It's not like he was unaware that the OL is struggling.

 

[SVN]

Belichick: 'On paper' good to run vs. Miami nickel defense