Please convince me that Simmons and/or Beason fit the Patriots system

[Rob0729]

Technique is much more important. If you think a guy should be filed away under "can't play" because of 10 lbs, you are ridiculously ignorant.

Well, you are an expert of ridiculously ignorant. Of course 10lbs can be a huge difference at LB especially when the player you are comparing to is already considered undersized at his position to begin with. If you can't see that, you have no business discussing this issue.

Leverage and technique is important, but it isn't the only thing. Sometimes size does matter.

 

[TripleOption]

It isn't crap. You think it is crap because it goes against your arguement. Many players do lose weight in the NFL because their regiment changes and not every player can keep on weight when it happens.

I do know what I am talking about. Bruschi is considered too small for our system, but he makes up for it with technique and skills. You take off another 10LBs and it is even tougher. You just can't grasp that simple concept. We like our ILB to be around 250 lbs plus. Bruschi is at the low end of that spectrum.

Again, I never said Beason would definitely not add weight or definitely not fit into the system. I have said he probably wouldn't fit in the system and I don't know if he can definitely add 10 LBs and be as effective. I don't deal with absolutes with draft picks. Aparently you do.

You obviously have a man crush on Beason and want to shoot down anyone who might have a problem drafting him. If the Pats do draft him, I will trust Belichick and Pioli that they feel he can adapt. I just have concerns about his weight and in the Pats' system that is a legitimate concern.

No, I don't. I can just tell from your ridiculous postings that you don't know a damn thing about playing LB or the NFL in general.

His weight is not a concern. Period.

Maybe you would like a 250 lbs guy, but if he is 235-240 and has technique, he will be fine.

 

[sebman2112]

It was in part Vilma's fault. The d-line had nothing to do with his problems shedding blocks from guards last year. Vilma struggled because he was too small to take on guards. If you watched him play, you would have seen that his size was a big problem for him against the run and rushing the passer. It wasn't all the d-line's fault.

Also, I don't buy into what Belichick says before the draft unless he follows through.

The fact of the matter is the Pats always go for bigger LBs. The OLBs are almost always over 260lbs (Colvin the lone exception) and the ILB always hover arounf 250lbs. Because of the two gap scheme, it makes it hard for smaller LBs to work well in our system. Size, instincts, and smarts are far more important than speed.

Banta Cain was under 250 when they drafted him, and played at around 250, so they draft OLB smaller that 260lbs. The two OLB I like the most are Woodley and Spencer and there are both around 270lbs, so there's no problem with their size.

 

[Rob0729]

if BB didnt feel they can fit..why would he bring them in? why ws he interested in Vilma and Sims?

Just because Belichick does or doesn't bring someone in doesn't mean that he is very interested or not. Belichick met with Odell Thurman several times including in Foxboro and he passed on him over Logan Mankins who didn't visit at all.

Some players are brought in as smokescreens. Other are brought in because they are on the bubble on the Pats' draft board and they want to know whether or not to eliminate them. Some players are not brought in at all that the Pats are high on because they have all they need to know about the player.

Belichick might have been interested in Vilma at strong safety for all we know (which might be the best place for him in the Belichick 3-4 since the strong safety is used very much like an extra LB at times). Do we know that the Pats were really interested in either him or Sims anyway?

 

[TripleOption]

Well, you are an expert of ridiculously ignorant. Of course 10lbs can be a huge difference at LB especially when the player you are comparing to is already considered undersized at his position to begin with. If you can't see that, you have no business discussing this issue.

Leverage and technique is important, but it isn't the only thing. Sometimes size does matter.

Good lord. The guy isn't 220 lbs! He's 235 lbs! Jesus, 15 lbs and he's at your magical 250 mark.

It's stat geeks like you that ruin the Draft and football in general.

 

[TripleOption]

FYI, McGinest went up and down from 235-240 lbs to 270 lbs in his career, depending on his position.

You think 15 lbs is a problem?

 

[Remix 6]

Just because Belichick does or doesn't bring someone in doesn't mean that he is very interested or not. Belichick met with Odell Thurman several times including in Foxboro and he passed on him over Logan Mankins who didn't visit at all.

Some players are brought in as smokescreens. Other are brought in because they are on the bubble on the Pats' draft board and they want to know whether or not to eliminate them. Some players are not brought in at all that the Pats are high on because they have all they need to know about the player.

Belichick might have been interested in Vilma at strong safety for all we know (which might be the best place for him in the Belichick 3-4 since the strong safety is used very much like an extra LB at times). Do we know that the Pats were really interested in either him or Sims anyway?

wow your so full of **** now with Vilma at SS. Such BS

Thurman went in round 2 anyways..we met withhim but maybe we didnt like what we saw

 

[Rob0729]

Banta Cain was under 250 when they drafted him, and played at around 250, so they draft OLB smaller that 260lbs. The two OLB I like the most are Woodley and Spencer and there are both around 270lbs, so there's no problem with their size.

TBC was a seventh round pick. Those are throw away picks where you take a chance on a player. Most of the time they don't pan out, but sometimes they do. You are talking about a first rounder this year. I did forget about him though. He does go against my statement. Typically, they do go after guys much bigger outside.

 

[TripleOption]

Belichick might have been interested in Vilma at strong safety for all we know (which might be the best place for him in the Belichick 3-4 since the strong safety is used very much like an extra LB at times).

Wow. That's that awful. You get worse with every post.

 

[DaBruinz]

It isn't crap. You think it is crap because it goes against your arguement. Many players do lose weight in the NFL because their regiment changes and not every player can keep on weight when it happens.

I do know what I am talking about. Bruschi is considered too small for our system, but he makes up for it with technique and skills. You take off another 10LBs and it is even tougher. You just can't grasp that simple concept. We like our ILB to be around 250 lbs plus. Bruschi is at the low end of that spectrum.

Again, I never said Beason would definitely not add weight or definitely not fit into the system. I have said he probably wouldn't fit in the system and I don't know if he can definitely add 10 LBs and be as effective. I don't deal with absolutes with draft picks. Aparently you do.

You obviously have a man crush on Beason and want to shoot down anyone who might have a problem drafting him. If the Pats do draft him, I will trust Belichick and Pioli that they feel he can adapt. I just have concerns about his weight and in the Pats' system that is a legitimate concern.

This is ridiculous. I have NEVER heard anyone say that Bruschi was too small for the Pats system. In fact, Bruschi's best years have come when he was playin ILB for the Pats, not OLB.

No one really knows what weight Bruschi has played at or what Bruschi's real height is. Personally, I don't believe that Bruschi is taller than 6'0.5". That half inch would get rounded up to 6'1. And if Bruschi is only 6'0.5", then he'd be less than half an inch taller than Beason. Actually, it would be closer to a quarter of an inch. Are you REALLY going to sit there and claim that a QUARTER of an inch is a concern? If you are, then you have some serious issues.

Now, your claim that Beason's height is a legitimate concern is as much a crock as the claim that MANY NFLers lose weight. Reality is that some NFLers lose weight. Some gain weight. Some stay the same. Unless you are part of a teams medical staff you don't have a clue as to how many do each.

 

[TripleOption]

wow your so full of **** now with Vilma at SS. Such BS

Thurman went in round 2 anyways..we met withhim but maybe we didnt like what we saw

No kidding..

I'm thinking character issues with Thurman. There were problems even before he got to Cincinnati.

 

[Rob0729]

wow your so full of **** now with Vilma at SS. Such BS

Thurman went in round 2 anyways..we met withhim but maybe we didnt like what we saw

I think Vilma would be a good SS in the Pats' system.

Besides, who knows if the Pats were legitimately interested in him. They had little to no shot at getting him so their interest was probably a smokescreen.

Who cares? We didn't draft him or try to move up to get him. We have no idea if the Pats were really interested in him.

Vima has been average at best in the 3-4 defense and got worse as the year went on. He was a stud 4-3 LB. What's your point? Beason is very good 4-3 LB and he can be downright average in the 3-4?

 

[Rob0729]

Wow. That's that awful. You get worse with every post.

Maybe if I keep progressing I can be as bad as you. Granted I will have to keep posting for a few more years at this rate.

 

[TripleOption]

I think Vilma would be a good SS in the Pats' system.

Then you're unbelievably stupid.

 

[TripleOption]

Maybe if I keep progressing I can be as bad as you. Granted I will have to keep posting for a few more years at this rate.

Maybe we should move Bruschi to SS, or draft Beason to replace Harrison.

Unreal. Do you even watch NFL football?

 

[Rob0729]

I'm thinking character issues with Thurman. There were problems even before he got to Cincinnati.

Exactly! You are learning! Exactly what I said. They brought Thurman in because he was probably on their bubble and they wanted to see if his character issues were legit and they eliminated him. It didn't mean they were really interested in Thurman.

Maybe if I keep posting, I will teach you that 10 Lbs actually means something in the NFL.

 

[Remix 6]

I think Vilma would be a good SS in the Pats' system.

Besides, who knows if the Pats were legitimately interested in him. They had little to no shot at getting him so their interest was probably a smokescreen.

Who cares? We didn't draft him or try to move up to get him. We have no idea if the Pats were really interested in him.

Vima has been average at best in the 3-4 defense and got worse as the year went on. He was a stud 4-3 LB. What's your point? Beason is very good 4-3 LB and he can be downright average in the 3-4?

why do u judge Vilma off 1 year on a new system?

Beason can be average.. or he can be amazing in a 3-4. we dont know. nuff said

 

[TripleOption]

Exactly! You are learning! Exactly what I said. They brought Thurman in because he was probably on their bubble and they wanted to see if his character issues were legit and they eliminated him. It didn't mean they were really interested in Thurman.

Maybe if I keep posting, I will teach you that 10 Lbs actually means something in the NFL.

The only thing you have taught me is that there are a lot of people that don't know anything about football but still post on NFL message boards.

 

[Remix 6]

Exactly! You are learning! Exactly what I said. They brought Thurman in because he was probably on their bubble and they wanted to see if his character issues were legit and they eliminated him. It didn't mean they were really interested in Thurman.

Maybe if I keep posting, I will teach you that 10 Lbs actually means something in the NFL.

go tell Jason Taylor that 255 is too small for a DE

 

[TripleOption]

go tell Jason Taylor that 255 is too small for a DE

He would be a SS in the Pats system.