Woody Johnson Clear Cut Tampered Re: Revis

[reflexblue]

It was almost definitely 2006.

It must have been, that would explain why nothing was done.

 

[Ring 6]

He also said "I would never interfere in the contractual relationship of a player with another team", which if he admitted to tampering would be contradictory. I think his statement is a CYA and not an admission and especially not an apology.

Thats quite a different conclusion than I get. I see it as a kid saying I would never spill the milk, so it couldn't have been me Mom.
He felt the need to make the statement because he knows it is tampering, so he is trying to say while I tampered, I would never do it on purpose. Doesn't matter.
There would be no reason to say he shouldn't have said those words, if he isn't apologizing.
I don't see how someone guilty of tampering contradicts it by claiming they weren't doing exactly what they did.

 

[shmessy]

You know, the simple fact that Johnson's comments have become a distraction before the Pats are playing a playoff game is enough to make him deserve some punishment.

Could be a distraction to Revis if he has to answer some stupid reporters' questions. Already landed on BB's plate.

There's a reason owners/GMs can't do this sort of thing. As someone upthread stated - imagine if Denver had been whispering to Talib before the AFCCG last year.

+1. Right on.

It is wrong if it happens even in the OFFSEASON to a player under contract. It is REALLY wrong if it happens to a player under contract who is preparing for a playoff game.

 

[archstanton543]

LMAO. Nope. C'mon, troll, 50% of those polled voted for "Second Warning" as the punishment most likely to be handed down.

Did Belichick get a "second warning"?

The league got a second warning. The first warning was issued in 2006. Since the taping didn't stop, the Commish issued another one in 2007.

 

[BSR]

Thats quite a different conclusion than I get. I see it as a kid saying I would never spill the milk, so it couldn't have been me Mom.

I'm not sure how this is different then what I am saying. He is saying he doesn't tamper so what he did wasn't tampering. It was his poorly wording that gave that misconception. He's now cleared the misconception and there is no tampering. At least that is how I interpret it.

He felt the need to make the statement because he knows it is tampering, so he is trying to say while I tampered, I would never do it on purpose. Doesn't matter.
There would be no reason to say he shouldn't have said those words, if he isn't apologizing.

He felt the need to make the statement because there were people talking about it. If people think his intention was to send a message to the Revis camp and he doesn't at least try to correct that supposed misconception then some may think he endorses that notion. He is trying to correct the supposed misconception of his words. There is nothing close to an apology in his statement, only clarification. An apology entails having wronged another and his statement tries to claim that he hasn't wronged the Patriots

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not sure how this is different then what I am saying. He is saying he doesn't tamper so what he did wasn't tampering. It was his poorly wording that gave that misconception. He's now cleared the misconception and there is no tampering. At least that is how I interpret it.

So you can tamper with a player, then say you don't tamper so it isn't tampering?
I would like Darrelle Revis back. This is tampering.
I don't tamper. This does not reverse what he has said. Otherwise, teams could go around tampering with players, then say they didn't mean it. The damage is done. Whether you consider that damage legitimate or not, the NFL does.
By his words, he made a statement that could impact the Patriots negotiations with Revis because he indicated and interest in signing him and actually implied what he would pay. Sorry didn't mean to tamper doesn't change that.

He felt the need to make the statement because there were people talking about it. If people think his intention was to send a message to the Revis camp and he doesn't at least try to correct that supposed misconception then some may think he endorses that notion. He is trying to correct the supposed misconception of his words. There is nothing close to an apology in his statement, only clarification. An apology entails having wronged another and his statement tries to claim that he hasn't wronged the Patriots

I shouldn't have done that is about as close to an apology as you can get without the words "I apologize" in there.
It does not matter whether he issues a statement saying he didn't mean to do what he did. He did it.
He is not correcting a misconception. He did not take back the words. He realized he tampered and said I didn't mean to tamper, sorry.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Revis hasn't gone anywhere yet. And if we do lose Revis I doubt it will be because Woody said these things in a presser. I certainly think the Jets should be punished for their gaffe in procedure but it is hardly something to create a **** storm over. Realistically Woody's comments will have little to no impact on the Revis negotiations. If they are going to be punished it will most likely be for a procedural violation.

Revis said he tried to go to the jest first. Woody said he would have taken him if he knew Revis would have taken what the Pats paid him. 1+1 = 2. Simple IMO

 

[pwes]

I'm not sure how this is different then what I am saying. He is saying he doesn't tamper so what he did wasn't tampering. It was his poorly wording that gave that misconception. He's now cleared the misconception and there is no tampering. At least that is how I interpret it.



He felt the need to make the statement because there were people talking about it. If people think his intention was to send a message to the Revis camp and he doesn't at least try to correct that supposed misconception then some may think he endorses that notion. He is trying to correct the supposed misconception of his words. There is nothing close to an apology in his statement, only clarification. An apology entails having wronged another and his statement tries to claim that he hasn't wronged the Patriots

The problem with that is no one is going to actually admit they were doing this due to the ramifications that would ensue by doing so. I think it was a mistake on his part but it was still a violation. However, I also think him backtracking and admitting it was a mistake is also going to mitigate any real punishment

 

[Koma]

You have a link to that? I remember it happened latter in the 07 season when the jest played in gillette. And mangina didn't turn the patriot camera man in, it was Tannenbaum the GM. I'm not saying your wrong i just don't remember it that way. If you had a link it would clear up the confusion.

Here are a couple of links about camera man for the Jets being removed from Gillette in during the 2006 season:

http://www.boston.com/sports/articles/2007/12/13/focus_on_jet_camera/

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3151217

It's kind of interesting that these stories didn't come out until December of 2007. At that point, the narrative for the story had been set and the stuff from 2006 was largely ignored. Compare that to the Jets sideline tripping incident and Westhoff going on the radio to accuse the Patriots of doing the same thing within a couple of days. As someone noted earlier, when you search for articles on that story now, most of them have "the Patriots did it too" angle.

I don't think if it would have changed the penalties at all, but muddying the water by getting this story out there in September might have helped with the perception of the incident. Waiting 3 months reduced it's impact to nothing.

 

[Froob]

In reality it doesn't effect anything really. Plenty of tampering goes on behind the scenes anyways. But johnson broke the rules in an obvious fashion and should be punished like others before him.

 

[Ivan]

You have a link to that? I remember it happened latter in the 07 season when the jest played in gillette. And mangina didn't turn the patriot camera man in, it was Tannenbaum the GM. I'm not saying your wrong i just don't remember it that way. If you had a link it would clear up the confusion.

Mangini alerted the jets, Tannenbaum was the one who decided to go to the mattresses and bring in league security and make it a much bigger issue. The patriots caught the jets doing the exact same thing in a playoff game b the year before and simply removed the guy with the camera. Most teams were doing it Belichick simply screwed up by ignoring the memo and the extent of the real scandal was taping less than a quarter of one game, prior to that it cwas commonplace.

That said because the jets pushed that issue to the greatest extent possible, as well as compensation for Belichick, the Patriots should be as unreasonable as possible and be total pricks about this. I'll start. We want the #6 overall.

 

[BSR]

So you can tamper with a player, then say you don't tamper so it isn't tampering?
I would like Darrelle Revis back. This is tampering.
I don't tamper. This does not reverse what he has said. Otherwise, teams could go around tampering with players, then say they didn't mean it. The damage is done. Whether you consider that damage legitimate or not, the NFL does.
By his words, he made a statement that could impact the Patriots negotiations with Revis because he indicated and interest in signing him and actually implied what he would pay. Sorry didn't mean to tamper doesn't change that.

I shouldn't have done that is about as close to an apology as you can get without the words "I apologize" in there.
It does not matter whether he issues a statement saying he didn't mean to do what he did. He did it.
He is not correcting a misconception. He did not take back the words. He realized he tampered and said I didn't mean to tamper, sorry.

If you think his intention was to admit guilt and apologize then why didn't he just do so directly?

 

[BSR]

The problem with that is no one is going to actually admit they were doing this due to the ramifications that would ensue by doing so. I think it was a mistake on his part but it was still a violation. However, I also think him backtracking and admitting it was a mistake is also going to mitigate and real punishment

That's actually exactly my point. He can't admit and apologize to tampering or at least not at this point.

 

[Ring 6]

If you think his intention was to admit guilt and apologize then why didn't he just do so directly?

I don't understand what you are saying.
I am talking about what happened. I could care less about what he intended and whether or not he tampered has nothing to do with intent.
You seem to think he can say he didn't mean it so it isn't tampering. I disagree very strongly.
Otherwise everyone could tamper with every player then say they weren't trying to tamper and all will be well.

 

[Peachhead]

I don't expect much unless Kraft decides to push the issue. There will certainly be a fine, probably a loss of a pick and perhaps a swap of later round picks. If Kraft pushes hard, I would expect a swap of 3rd or maybe even 2nd round picks. Unfortunately I don't think Kraft will push hard. If this had anything close to the media coverage it would have if BB did this, I would expect good compensation. Sadly that type of media attention is only reserved for when the Pats or BB eff up.

While I do agree that Kraft is a consensus builder and less confrontational than many owners, remember Cameragate. Mr. Kraft was *personally* fined several 100s of thousands of dollars (I think it was half a mil but I could be wrong) because the Jets pushed a real ticky-tack violation over the Pats filming from the *wrong part of the field*. It doesn't get much more disproportional than that.

I think Kraft wants blood as much as BB does. He's just going to be a bit more more low key about it.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

In reality it doesn't effect anything really. Plenty of tampering goes on behind the scenes anyways. But johnson broke the rules in an obvious fashion and should be punished like others before him.

It really should be this simple.

 

[shmessy]

Mangini alerted the jets, Tannenbaum was the one who decided to go to the mattresses and bring in league security and make it a much bigger issue. The patriots caught the jets doing the exact same thing in a playoff game b the year before and simply removed the guy with the camera. Most teams were doing it Belichick simply screwed up by ignoring the memo and the extent of the real scandal was taping less than a quarter of one game, prior to that it cwas commonplace.

That said because the jets pushed that issue to the greatest extent possible, as well as compensation for Belichick, the Patriots should be as unreasonable as possible and be total pricks about this. I'll start. We want the #6 overall.

I agree with everything until the last sentence.

The Jets received no compensation from the Patriots for Cameragate.

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

I think my post was pretty obvious that Goodell going to willfully ignore that this happened (or a slap on the wrist memo). Johnson backtracked pretty quickly and it would not surprise me if they accept his response that he didn't know and called Kraft immediately. Regardless if it's a league matter, if the Owner says it should be investigated its more likely to be rather than the owner being complacent and acting like nothing even happened.

But the damage is done. He cant do what he did and back track without repercussions. Or everyone would. He was told not to say it, and he did.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Mangini alerted the jets, Tannenbaum was the one who decided to go to the mattresses and bring in league security and make it a much bigger issue. .

Major Speculation Alert:

I think Ratman and Lord Tannenbaum would not bring it to the league's attention without getting the OK from Sportin' Woody. Once that happened, Goody calls Woody & the rest of the Jets and asks him if he thinks his organization feels competitively compromised. Obviously they all say yes.

My point is that none/some of this happens- draft picks, $500k fines, etc w/o Woody backing his guys and giving the OK for Goody to go house on BB & the Pats.

The patriots caught the jets doing the exact same thing in a playoff game b the year before and simply removed the guy with the camera. Most teams were doing it Belichick simply screwed up by ignoring the memo and the extent of the real scandal was taping less than a quarter of one game, prior to that it cwas commonplace.

Yep. BB blowing off the memo was the killer but the Jets pushed the envelope.

That said because the jets pushed that issue to the greatest extent possible, as well as compensation for Belichick, the Patriots should be as unreasonable as possible and be total pricks about this.

Two wrongs don't make a right but I think as an owner, Kraft needs to support his employees and do what is best for his organization. If he let this slide, I think BB and his men would have a major problem with it.

I'll start. We want the #6 overall.

I like the thought, but I don't think it'll happen. Maybe the Pats file a grievance if they lose Revis LOL.

 

[BSR]

I don't understand what you are saying.
I am talking about what happened. I could care less about what he intended and whether or not he tampered has nothing to do with intent.
You seem to think he can say he didn't mean it so it isn't tampering. I disagree very strongly.
Otherwise everyone could tamper with every player then say they weren't trying to tamper and all will be well.

Earlier in the thread someone had claimed that Woody admitted his guilt and apologized through his statement. I disagreed and felt the statement was a carefully crafted non-admittance. That being said I think his statement totally fails to distance himself from any tampering. My only point was that he wasn't intending to admit guilt.