Asante really DOES deserve better...

[Rob0729]

Remember, Adalius Thomas though he had a fantastic year playing alongside the unhuman skills of Ray Lewis has yet to play a down in a pats uniform yet fans didn't overly questioned the enormous deal the pats gave him. With all that being said, I have alot of faith in the best front office in the league and hope that after spending a bundle on a slot reciever like Wes Welker, they will shell out the dough to Samuel who is only getting better each year.

GO PATS!

Thomas had 86 tackles, 9 sacks, 4 forced fumbles, and 2 INTs (one brought back for a TD) in 2005. Ray Lewis played 6 games in 2005. Thomas proved that it wasn't just lining up next to Ray Lewis that made him good.

Over the last three season, Thomas had 241 tackles, 28 sacks, 8 forced fumbles, and 4 INTs. Those are impressive numbers for an OLB. Other than the forced fumbles (he had two years with four and one year with none), his stats remained fairly consistent over those three years with or without Ray Lewis lining up next to him.

By contrast, over the last three years Samuel has had 14 INTs, 52 Pass defenses, amd 158 tackles. Without taking into effect that 10 of his INTs and 24 of his pass defenses came last season, those are just respectable numbers for a CB. Nothing special but respectable. You take out last year's stats and Samuel has mediocre stats.

That is why no one complained about Thomas' contract. He has proven it more than one year. Besides he took below market value. Samuel wants Clements type money.

 

[fgssand]

As a huge fan of the Patriots, I am in a tricky situation on this. I want to sit here and pretend that Asante is asking for too much, but lets face the facts. The guy is a consistently productive cornerback coming off his best year yet and is a legitimately top cover corner in the league. I'm not putting him in that "shutdown corner" slot just yet cause he does have a lot to prove still. I think its an insult that the Pats will go out and spend (for once) on guys who haven't proved anything in our system (welker,washington,thomas..etc) but neglect to pay a productive player. With all this being said some players have gotten greedy with the patriots before (Law,Branch, Milloy..etc) and all of them in my opinion, deserved to be cut or traded. Pay up patriots! Because Asante is going to be cosistently productive for a long long time...

After you wake up ths AM and read the Globe - tell us what you think now, please.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

If the reports are right, and Asante wants $10M/year guaranteed for 3 years, I say let him sit and pout, let him play under the tag, whatever he wants to do.

He'd eff up my scatterplots.

BUT - I do believe he's the real thing. A good corner. Maybe even at the top of the CB class right now, but I don't think so.

He's a good corner. He might even be a great corner. He is not, however, the second best guy on this team.

Teams pay that kind of coin for corners, though not often. Even if he is one of the guys that merit that pay, for a team that pays that kind of coin at the CB position, the Pats seem not to relish those super-deals at either DB or wideout.

Maybe they value him differently. I do not know that answer. I do have a hunch, however.

All this assumes that Samuel (and his agent) mean what he is saying - i.e., that they want 30M guaranteed over 3 years.

I am not at all sure that they are not posturing.

PFnV

 

[mgteich]

"posturing"? It's call "negotiation".

If the reports are right, and Asante wants $10M/year guaranteed for 3 years, I say let him sit and pout, let him play under the tag, whatever he wants to do.

He'd eff up my scatterplots.

BUT - I do believe he's the real thing. A good corner. Maybe even at the top of the CB class right now, but I don't think so.

He's a good corner. He might even be a great corner. He is not, however, the second best guy on this team.

Teams pay that kind of coin for corners, though not often. Even if he is one of the guys that merit that pay, for a team that pays that kind of coin at the CB position, the Pats seem not to relish those super-deals at either DB or wideout.

Maybe they value him differently. I do not know that answer. I do have a hunch, however.

All this assumes that Samuel (and his agent) mean what he is saying - i.e., that they want 30M guaranteed over 3 years.

I am not at all sure that they are not posturing.

PFnV

 

[PatsFanInVa]

"posturing"? It's call "negotiation".

Sorry, I understand the distinction, but hereabouts we've always pronounced it Po-tay-to.

PFnV

 

[DaBruinz]

"posturing"? It's call "negotiation".

Demanding to be paid better than some of the ELITE players on your team when you aren't even close to being in their class isn't negoatiation. Its stupidity. As others have said, at least Nate Clements had several years of good play to help him get his contract. Samuel has 1 good year and 3 mediocre years.

Yes, he's improved in each one, but he's also been the beneficiary of having a damn good front 7 to help pressure the QB.

 

[Pats726]

"posturing"? It's call "negotiation".

I think one "negotiates" with the other party...running to the press and griping is more "posturing"...

 

[VJCPatriot]

Wow Asante wants Clements money? Looks like 7/50 with 16M bonus won't be enough now. Who woulda thunkit? We should have signed him before the Clements/Bly deals got inked. Before those happened, Pats could have easily had him for 6/36 10M guaranteed imo.

 

[patpatriot]

Sorry, I understand the distinction, but hereabouts we've always pronounced it Po-tay-to.

PFnV

This is a *great* f'n mboard...not good *great*...maybe the best football mboard there is...give yourself a big old Easter pat on the back Va!

 

[PatsFanInVa]

LOL Pat... you may not have been here for the "offseason moves for Patsfans.com" thread... that's the one when I decided there's something just plain peculiar about this place (but in a good way)

Thanks

PFnV

 

[patriotsdynasty12189]

what i dont udnerstand is....samuel had 10 or 11 int's...that was tied for most, next to champ bailey, he also had 2nd most tackles in the nfl (for dbs), 2nd to champ bailey.....

how the **** does he not get selected to the pro bowl??

still boggles the mind.....you're essentially tied as the best defensive back player, and yet you dont get any recognition, was samuel even in the talks for DPOY award?

Tony Romo made the probowl. Who cares about INT are overated.

 

[spacecrime]

Sorry, I understand the distinction, but hereabouts we've always pronounced it Po-tay-to.

PFnV

So you say

 

[TMoney]

I think if the Pats get a good offer fo Asante they should take. Asante is a product of the system. They patriots don't place too much importance on CB, they just like to slot an average guy into the system. There whole defence is built on not giving up big plays and when a team gets into the red zone they either get a turnover or give up a field goal. In the Red Zone the LB, DE and SS take over, CB aren't that important. So if someone gives the Pats a Mid First round pick for hime they will take it and probably trade one of the 1st round picks for two seconds and get some good prospects who they can fit into the system. It is probably best for Asante to leave the PATs they are not going to give him the money he wants. He will be traded before Draft Day and as always the Pats will make the smart choice.

 

[italia44]

I think everyone is missing absolutely huge points.

Many seem to be going under the assumption that it is 'fair' for Samuel to get a long term deal at this time. He is not legally or morally entitled to that. He belongs to a players 'association' [union] which has legally and honorably signed an agreement [CBA] with the NFL that says that a team has the right to franchise a player and the player, under the legal and moral and responsible obligation of his associations agreement with the NFL, is obligated to honor that agreement and play under a franchise tag. What is so hard to understand about that? Do the folks advocating this want to throw out United States business and contract law ? I don't get it. Samuel wants to throw out his legal obligations for his own benefit. That is chaos and anarchy. By the way, he actually has another right - he can refuse his services and not play.

The other thing that many seem to competely ready to disregard (and substitute shoot-from-the-hip ignorant judgment) is the known fact that Pioli/Belichick et al operate under a general philosophy that there is a relatively optimum distribution of salary cap numbers across 53 player positions plus injured reserve plus replacement players for those on IR plus practice squad. Maybe you think, without any consideration of how to optimally spread the salary cap across all of those obligations, that you can make a singular judgment that Samuel is worth more of a piece of that pie than Belichick and Pioli do - I think you are sadly mistaken. And if you think your evaluation of how much Samuel is capable of now and in the future versus other possible players is better than Belichick and Pioli - again, I think you are very misguided and sadly mistaken.

JMHO.

Cheers.

ahhhh......cool,dispassionate,logic

you'll go far,my son