Zach Moore or Michael Sam?

[English Patriot]

Now before people get sand up their holes just READ this whole post. In the 6th round of the draft the Pats selected Concordia DE Zach Moore. I'm pretty sure nobody had ever heard nor seen him on this board and if you did you were probably watching some random game late night trying to go to sleep.

In the 7th round and the 249th overall pick a unanimous all american, first team SEC and co defensive player POTY Michael Sam was selected by the Rams.

Just wondering apart from the stinking obvious reason why on earth would you take a fly on Moore over Sam?

Now i completely understand if you don't pick Sam because from a technique and fit point of view he doesn't do on Defense what you think Moore could do but i highly, highly doubt that is the case when considering the school, conference played in and accolades that Sam has received.

So really the Pats on their big board at DE like 30 other teams considered Moore or another DE to be better than Sam? Cannot simply be true. What makes it more intriguing is that what place in the whole of the USA could be a better place to go and JUST PLAY FOOTBALL than Foxborough, Mass?

The same place that stifled the most outrageous player off the field "Ochocinco" and turned him into a guy that barely gave an interview for one year straight. The same place that took in the most overtalked about NFL player in history, Tim Tebow and cut him with barely a noise made.

If there is any locker room, or coach that can get someone to just do football and football only it is the New England Patriots and Bill Bellichick. It is for this reason that i'm astounded a marginal player from Concordia could be considered over a fairly highly rated Mizzou player.

I've said since the beginning when this guy had that interview that i could care less what you do in your personal life outside of Gillette walls, if you can go sack that QB which the Pats are simply HOPELESS at doing when it really matters in January then you are welcome with open arms. How the Pats or any other team could feel otherwise is simply mind boggling or maybe i'm in a minority. Again if he was not a fit then i understand but it can't be because Bill admitted the draft this year was just picking best available and no way is Zach Moore better than Michael Sam.

 

[ausbacker]

There is a considerable difference between Sam and Moore in their perceived physical ability. Sam seems like a guy who has maxed out. Moore is raw but if you believe the upside is greater, you go with the guy who is the better fit with what you perceive to be the higher upside.

Sam's combine results showed a serious lack of explosive ability. If you're going to rush the passer, that's a pretty big deal.

 

[English Patriot]

There is a considerable difference between Sam and Moore in their perceived physical ability. Sam seems like a guy who has maxed out. Moore is a raw but if you believe the upside is greater, you go with the guy who is the better fit with what you perceive to be the higher upside.

Sam's combine results showed a serious lack of explosive ability. If you're going to rush the passer, that's a pretty big deal.

Kony Ealy is not that good for Sam to just be an all american out of the blue. Personally i feel there was alot of prejudice towards him and why he went so late, it simply doesn't correlate and a guy picked out of Concordia a whole round before him speaks to that.

Whether or not Moore is raw or not doesn't really matter because his max out doesn't make him better than Sam because he wouldn't be playing at that school otherwise.

 

[Big-T]

Zach Moore:
6'5"
269lbs
4.84 40
23 bench press
33 1/2 vert
10'03" broad
4.46 20 yard shuttle
7.41 3 cone
33 3/4" arms

Michael Sam:
6'2"
261lbs
4.91 40
17 bench press
25 1/2 vert
9'06" broad
4.7 short shuttle
7.8 3 cone
33 3/8" arms

Moore is bigger, stronger, faster, more explosive (better vert & broad) & more agile and has longer arms. With all that in mind, the team likely saw him as a player with more upside and potential to coach up.

Moore is no slouch either, the competition may not have been great but he has the school record for sacks with 33.

 

[RayClay]

They are prejudiced against short people, at least at DE.

 

[RobAllan]

Kony Ealy is not that good for Sam to just be an all american out of the blue. Personally i feel there was alot of prejudice towards him and why he went so late, it simply doesn't correlate and a guy picked out of Concordia a whole round before him speaks to that

Kind of agree- nobody at that age is maxed out. Questioning the toughness and physical ability of the "out" player? Kind of obvious what the problem is, IMHO. Reality is coaches have to consider the locker room and as Twitter showed us, a lot of these animals probably won't gel well with a homosexual player. It's fairly ridiculous, but how the world is right now. As I age, I find my tolerance for intolerance has dwindled into almost nothing. We've been dragging people kicking and screaming into an appropriate outlook on civil rights pretty well since the dawn of the revolution. Race, gender, gender, race, age, sexuality, gender, race, race, etc. It's this mind-numbing cycle. NFL type player personalities will have to be dragged into the modern era with this too. Just gotta sit and wait for another generation, probably.

Blah. Evolution is a slow process both physically and sociologically.

 

[English Patriot]

Kind of agree- nobody at that age is maxed out. Questioning the toughness and physical ability of the "out" player? Kind of obvious what the problem is, IMHO. Reality is coaches have to consider the locker room and as Twitter showed us, a lot of these animals probably won't gel well with a homosexual player. It's fairly ridiculous, but how the world is right now. As I age, I find my tolerance for intolerance has dwindled into almost nothing. We've been dragging people kicking and screaming into an appropriate outlook on civil rights pretty well since the dawn of the revolution. Race, gender, gender, race, age, sexuality, gender, race, race, etc. It's this mind-numbing cycle. NFL type player personalities will have to be dragged into the modern era with this too. Just gotta sit and wait for another generation, probably.

Blah. Evolution is a slow process both physically and sociologically.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Brady6]

I respect Michael Sam and admire his courage but I was taken back by his reaction to being drafted, and his being gay had nothing to do with it, his reaction portrayed a man who has a lot of trouble controlling his emotions (happy, sad, mad, etc.) that is not an attribute I look for in a professional athlete.

 

[English Patriot]

I respect Michael Sam and admire his courage but I was taken back by his reaction to being drafted, and his being gay had nothing to do with it, his reaction portrayed a man who has a lot of trouble controlling his emotions (happy, sad, mad, etc.) that is not an attribute I look for in a professional athlete.

Considering he is literally one of a kind in the football world you could forgive him for being that way, in time it will no longer be an issue for him mentally and his potential play on the field will have a lot of GM's kicking themselves for passing on him.

 

[Brady6]

Kony Ealy is not that good for Sam to just be an all american out of the blue. Personally i feel there was alot of prejudice towards him and why he went so late, it simply doesn't correlate and a guy picked out of Concordia a whole round before him speaks to that.

Whether or not Moore is raw or not doesn't really matter because his max out doesn't make him better than Sam because he wouldn't be playing at that school otherwise.

This is why he went so late, not because he is gay. The 7.80 3-cone drill, 25 ½ vertical, those numbers are horrible, there are 325lb OL who outperformed him.

Height: 6020
Weight: 261
40 Yrd Dash: 4.79
20 Yrd Dash: 2.75
10 Yrd Dash: 1.61
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 17
Vertical Jump: 25 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'06"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.70
3-Cone Drill: 7.80

There is no prejudice, if anything his being gay is the only reason he got drafted, Jackson Jeffcoat was superior talent and he went undrafted.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Now before people get sand up their holes just READ this whole post. In the 6th round of the draft the Pats selected Concordia DE Zach Moore. I'm pretty sure nobody had ever heard nor seen him on this board and if you did you were probably watching some random game late night trying to go to sleep.

In the 7th round and the 249th overall pick a unanimous all american, first team SEC and co defensive player POTY Michael Sam was selected by the Rams.

Just wondering apart from the stinking obvious reason why on earth would you take a fly on Moore over Sam?

Now i completely understand if you don't pick Sam because from a technique and fit point of view he doesn't do on Defense what you think Moore could do but i highly, highly doubt that is the case when considering the school, conference played in and accolades that Sam has received.

So really the Pats on their big board at DE like 30 other teams considered Moore or another DE to be better than Sam? Cannot simply be true. What makes it more intriguing is that what place in the whole of the USA could be a better place to go and JUST PLAY FOOTBALL than Foxborough, Mass?

The same place that stifled the most outrageous player off the field "Ochocinco" and turned him into a guy that barely gave an interview for one year straight. The same place that took in the most overtalked about NFL player in history, Tim Tebow and cut him with barely a noise made.

If there is any locker room, or coach that can get someone to just do football and football only it is the New England Patriots and Bill Bellichick. It is for this reason that i'm astounded a marginal player from Concordia could be considered over a fairly highly rated Mizzou player.

I've said since the beginning when this guy had that interview that i could care less what you do in your personal life outside of Gillette walls, if you can go sack that QB which the Pats are simply HOPELESS at doing when it really matters in January then you are welcome with open arms. How the Pats or any other team could feel otherwise is simply mind boggling or maybe i'm in a minority. Again if he was not a fit then i understand but it can't be because Bill admitted the draft this year was just picking best available and no way is Zach Moore better than Michael Sam.

In the NFL, Sam is small, slow and unathletic for his position, his chances for success are slim at best. There are probably a hundred different factors figured in projecting a player to the pros, which is what they're doing, not drafting based on college achievement.

 

[Big-T]

If Sam put up the numbers at the combine Moore did, paired with his production College he probably goes in the first couple of rounds.

The problem is, he showed that he's short, unathletic and not very strong (his 17 on the BP was tied 2nd worst at the combine).

The other DEs with low bench press results:
Cassius Marsh (4th round)
Larry Webster (4th round)
Tevin Mims (UDFA)
Aaron Lynch (5th round)
Jackson Jeffcoat (UDFA)

 

[strngplyr]

Late in the draft you often draft players based on their physical makeup. Moore's numbers look a hell of a lot better.

 

[English Patriot]

In the NFL, Sam is small, slow and unathletic for his position, his chances for success are slim at best. There are probably a hundred different factors figured in projecting a player to the pros, which is what they're doing, not drafting based on college achievement.

So his achievements mean nothing in other words? You don't get those accolades without being at least good. Is Tom Brady HOF going off combine film?

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Prejudice had nothing to do with it. At least Sam was taken in the 7th round. Jackson Jeffcoat, the Big 12 Defensive POY and Ted Hendricks Award winner as top DE in the country went completely undrafted.

 

[Brady6]

If Sam put up the numbers at the combine Moore did, paired with his production College he probably goes in the first couple of rounds.

The problem is, he showed that he's short, unathletic and not very strong (his 17 on the BP was tied 2nd worst at the combine).

The other DEs with low bench press results:
Cassius Marsh (4th round)
Larry Webster (4th round)
Tevin Mims (UDFA)
Aaron Lynch (5th round)
Jackson Jeffcoat (UDFA)

The 7.80 3-cone and 25 1/2 vertical is one of the worst performances of any player at the combine, period, any position.

 

[Big-T]

So his achievements mean nothing in other words? You don't get those accolades without being at least good. Is Tom Brady HOF going off combine film?

Tim Tebow won the Heisman and was one of the top QBs in College Football, would you want him leading the Patriots Offense?

Don't look too much into College production, look at how they project as pros.

 

[Brady6]

So his achievements mean nothing in other words? You don't get those accolades without being at least good. Is Tom Brady HOF going off combine film?

Tim Tebow was widely considered the best college player ever, it did not translate to the NFL, that happens every year, being a great college player does not mean you are going to be a good pro.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

Your whole argument is based on the proposition that Sam is going to be better than Moore and in fact that it's not even close. Maybe BB disagrees, is all.

 

[English Patriot]

Those combine numbers don't look good and i guess it's just a time will tell thing, but what if he goes and becomes a good player at this level and his numbers were as a result of lack of focus like many others have produced at the combine what's the excuse? Like i said we'll see but the early reasons as to why he's 249 when mock drafts had him rounds 3-6 is suspect to say the least.